News ISU Figure skating Awards

[Diana Delafield]

As I get older and older young people seem younger and younger.

Particularly those doing a supposedly authoritative job. Doctors, dentists, policemen..... You want to ask them if their mothers know they're skipping school.

 

[Arriba627]

I wonder if Taylor Swift would consider lacing up a pair of skates. Maybe it could do wonders!

 

[cailuj365]

Do you know what would get USA interested in figure skating again? Winners and long careers. We love people who win. That's it. If they don't win, at least stick around for more than 4 years and be a good personality, so that we remember you for the next Olympics.

Quad axel is a good hook for sure though, but Ilia also has to back it up with major international titles and not bomb on NBC every year at the Nationals. The fact that we can't watch any videos on Youtube NBC channel for more than a couple weeks now is also killing USA interest. Nathan Chen's performances are still up from 4 years ago, but you can't watch Ilia at all. They took down his 2023 GPF SP from this year, but somehow Shoma's 2023 GPF free skate is still up. Makes no sense. The only full performance you can watch of Ilia on USA Youtube is from his GP Skate America 2022 when he landed 4A, and it's from Eurosport, not NBC.

I will say that the quad axel absolutely did hook me though. I was only half-following Nathan Chen by the time of Beijing and had no idea there was a kid named Ilia Malinin doing 4A until I saw it on Youtube with the Eurosport video. I really didn't even know he existed until that video titled "Ilia Malinin produces first Quadruple Axel in Figure Skating Grand Prix history!" (775k views) caught my eye. I missed the whole controversy about the Beijing selection. By the time I saw the video, it was actually 2 months after he did it too, and the GPF was already finished. I think Ilia is also a lot more striking and charismatic on the ice than off the ice, where he can sometimes be pretty awkward still, but no one watches men's FS for the interviews unless it's Johnny Weir vs. Evan Lysacek. That tension and cattiness was entertaining high drama.

And sadly, I agree with @Rebecca Moose, that US will only ever really care about ladies figure skating. Artistic expression in men isn't culturally appreciated on a wide scale, not in the way that Asia or Europe does or can appreciate it. Guys are supposed to be playing football, baseball, or basketball. Isabeau has a video of 8.4 million views from 2022 Nationals when she came in 4th and did a very balletic, pretty-princess routine. Nathan Chen's winning Olympic routine? 1.3 million views.


Edit: I should also say that even on Peacock, it's hard to find skating. It's 3 days and done. There is no selectable tile for figure skating on the Peacock Sports page, while there are tiles for track and field and speed skating. It's like FS doesn't even exist here.

 

[Mathematician]

before the war Russia skaters etc also..

Even after war they still seem warm to them, or at least they didnt lose warmth to those that they already had it towards such as the aforementioned Shcherbakova.

 

[Mathematician]

I wonder if Taylor Swift would consider lacing up a pair of skates. Maybe it could do wonders!

I dont know how serious you are being but, trivial celebrity involvement is akin to the tiktok marketing scheme. It can generate momentary attention but it wont develop the emotional attachment or relation to athletes required for "real" fans.

Do you know what would get USA interested in figure skating again? Winners and long careers. We love people who win. That's it. If they don't win, at least stick around for more than 4 years and be a good personality, so that we remember you for the next Olympics.

Quad axel is a good hook for sure though, but Ilia also has to back it up with major international titles and not bomb on NBC every year at the Nationals. The fact that we can't watch any videos on Youtube NBC channel for more than a couple weeks now is also killing USA interest. Nathan Chen's performances are still up from 4 years ago, but you can't watch Ilia at all. They took down his 2023 GPF SP from this year, but somehow Shoma's 2023 GPF free skate is still up. Makes no sense. The only full performance you can watch of Ilia on USA Youtube is from his GP Skate America 2022 when he landed 4A, and it's from Eurosport, not NBC.

I will say that the quad axel absolutely did hook me though. I was only half-following Nathan Chen by the time of Beijing and had no idea there was a kid named Ilia Malinin doing 4A until I saw it on Youtube with the Eurosport video. I really didn't even know he existed until that video titled "Ilia Malinin produces first Quadruple Axel in Figure Skating Grand Prix history!" (775k views) caught my eye. I missed the whole controversy about the Beijing selection. By the time I saw the video, it was actually 2 months after he did it too, and the GPF was already finished. I think Ilia is also a lot more striking and charismatic on the ice than off the ice, where he can sometimes be pretty awkward still, but no one watches men's FS for the interviews unless it's Johnny Weir vs. Evan Lysacek. That tension and cattiness was entertaining high drama.

And sadly, I agree with @Rebecca Moose, that US will only ever really care about ladies figure skating. Artistic expression in men isn't culturally appreciated on a wide scale, not in the way that Asia or Europe does or can appreciate it. Guys are supposed to be playing football, baseball, or basketball. Isabeau has a video of 8.4 million views from 2022 Nationals when she came in 4th and did a very balletic, pretty-princess routine. Nathan Chen's winning Olympic routine? 1.3 million views.


Edit: I should also say that even on Peacock, it's hard to find skating. It's 3 days and done. There is no selectable tile for figure skating on the Peacock Sports page, while there are tiles for track and field and speed skating. It's like FS doesn't even exist here.

On one hand I agree that successful athletes can garner interest, especially in the USA, but at the same time Chen is reigning OGM and absolute record holder. Even when Russia wasnt winning much before the last decade skating was still considered an intrinsic sport to the culture, girls were still interested in learning because the discipline is considered perhaps even equal to ballet in its sophistication. Again, I'm not saying it is or isnt, im just saying thats how people there judge it and thats important to their interest. As such we eventually achieved the level we are at. So again I think the root issue lies in what I was saying earlier.

Malinin's quad axel can garner interest from someone like you because you already have reference on what it means, but people who arent already in the sport wont care. I could try to explain to you that I recently saw an athlete do pullups with a total of 300kg on his body but this wont make you interested in calisthenics because you didnt ever have a reason to care in the first place. Its just numbers, maybe impressive numbers even to you but it doesnt give something to relate to long term. You have seen many impressive numbers and statistics on many things in your life that you still dont care about.

 

[cailuj365]

On one hand I agree that successful athletes can garner interest, especially in the USA, but at the same time Chen is reigning OGM and absolute record holder. Even when Russia wasnt winning much before the last decade skating was still considered an intrinsic sport to the culture, girls were still interested in learning because the discipline is considered perhaps even equal to ballet in its sophistication. Again, I'm not saying it is or isnt, im just saying thats how people there judge it and thats important to their interest. As such we eventually achieved the level we are at. So again I think the root issue lies in what I was saying earlier.

Malinin's quad axel can garner interest from someone like you because you already have reference on what it means, but people who arent already in the sport wont care. I could try to explain to you that I recently saw an athlete do pullups with a total of 300kg on his body but this wont make you interested in calisthenics because you didnt ever have a reason to care in the first place. Its just numbers, maybe impressive numbers even to you but it doesnt give something to relate to long term. You have seen many impressive numbers and statistics on many things in your life that you still dont care about.

Totally. You're absolutely right that a quad axel actually means something to me where it wouldn't for the average joe off the block. However, it took something like a 4A to bring me back to watching FS and following competitions. I don't think that's unimportant. Way harder to get completely new audiences in, which is also an important topic that is being discussed.

Figure skating may never be considered intrinsically tied or valuable to US culture in the way it is in Russia, so I think the best that we can do here is have consistent champions and familiar faces to keep the popularity alive. The lack of a consistent ladies' champion has really hurt popularity of FS in the US. The only returning skater to the Olympic team for 2026 may be Chock/Bates, and that's a maybe too.

But if there isn't even a way for US audiences to watch a full performance on Youtube for more than 3 weeks, none of this really matters. You don't even get to see the face to make them familiar! I semi-follow some other Olympic sports - track and field, swimming - because it's all highly, highly accessible on Youtube and NBC does not take those videos down. I actually think it's kind of amazing that Ilia has even garnered the Instagram followers he has given the lack of accessible videos. I would not compare his followers to Jason Brown or even Junhwan who have been around for several years at the top level.

Just to bring it back to the actual topic of this thread, which is the ISU awards. Fairly innocuous and meaningless to me, a feel-good award but I don't really understand why they're being held during Art On Ice in February, would move it to the Worlds gala or banquet.

 

[TallyT]

Donovan Carrillo has probably done more of that than Nathan Chen, Ilia Malinin, Alina Zagitova, Evgenia Medvedeva, Shoma Uno and Kaori Sakamoto combined. (not including Yuzuru as the outlier). A skater from Mexico, the smallest of small feds, with 472K in Insta followers...... Donovan would win that award, whatever it is, along with the costumes.

Give Donovan all the prizes!!! (and invite him to all the shows!!!)

I dont know how serious you are being but, trivial celebrity involvement is akin to the tiktok marketing scheme. It can generate momentary attention but it wont develop the emotional attachment or relation to athletes required for "real" fans.

While I am up there with the best cheering when my own favourites get big numbers on tiktok or youtube (or weibo), I do try to remember that it's not the world's most reliable indicator. As far as I can see the two biggest actual performances on youtube (as apart from uploaded tiktoks) are two tiny girls, Starr Andrews' 'Whip My Hair' and an adorable little Asian dressed as a ladybug. And let's not forget that every celebrity on those platforms is outviewed regularly by kittens doing such impressive feats as batting each other on the nose. Or meowing. Or falling asleep.

On one hand I agree that successful athletes can garner interest, especially in the USA, but at the same time Chen is reigning OGM and absolute record holder.

Let's also not forget, he did have a pretty long career. Okay, so most of the biggest audiences that he skated to were due to the Japanese men and Russian women bringing them, but he and those audiences were shown on US TV etc for years. Didn't help the sport in the end (and to be fair, being good for the sport wasn't his, isn't really anyone's job no matter what TSL thinks) so what can someone else do?

Just to bring it back to the actual topic of this thread, which is the ISU awards. Fairly innocuous and meaningless to me, a feel-good award but I don't really understand why they're being held during Art On Ice in February, would move it to the Worlds gala or banquet.

Realistically, the awards are simply a piece of puffery (what can you expect when the agent for at least one of the nominees us running the thing?) and I'd bet good money on them, at least for the last couple, choosing who they want to award something to and then fitting the awards around them. Sometimes they get one right... by accident.

 

[cailuj365]

Nathan Chen didn't bring FS back to 1990s popularity, but I think his wins and consistency kept it on live US TV and saved it from being in the ditch, which is where Canada is currently. :/

 

[Mathman]

I wonder if Taylor Swift would consider lacing up a pair of skates. Maybe it could do wonders!

Here's Taylor Swift with a few of her besties. (This was 2014. Michelle Kwan's then-husband was running for Governor of the state of Rhode Island. Quite a few celebrities/friends of Michelle gave endorsements.)

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twitter.com

And here azre some freesh-faced skaters being up-to-date by skating tonSwift's music. (Junior American Ice Theater of Boston.)

Evermore (Taylor Swift) skated to by American Ice Theatre Boston, Junior Company (2021)

âWhen we seek support from our loved ones, our healing process can begin and we are reminded that the pain we feel is not forevermore.â - Kate McSwain, dire...

www.youtube.com

 

[Mathematician]

Figure skating may never be considered intrinsically tied or valuable to US culture in the way it is in Russia, so I think the best that we can do here is have consistent champions and familiar faces to keep the popularity alive. The lack of a consistent ladies' champion has really hurt popularity of FS in the US.

Let's also not forget, he did have a pretty long career. Okay, so most of the biggest audiences that he skated to were due to the Japanese men and Russian women bringing them, but he and those audiences were shown on US TV etc for years. Didn't help the sport in the end (and to be fair, being good for the sport wasn't his, isn't really anyone's job no matter what TSL thinks) so what can someone else do?

I think this all goes back to what someone else said, that male skating is unlikely to be appreciated in the west for many reasons. There is a more narrow minded and superficial understanding of masculinity in those areas of the world, at least thats how I see it. There are many reasons and consequences to that but whats relevant here is that it means a male champion isnt enough.

The most realistic solution to our problem then I think would be an American/Canadian women's champion. This would really motivate girls there to pick up skating as opposed to something like gymnastics. I think also a problem is that those who do become champions are not just from any country but specifically from a historical rival country. As such subconsciously perhaps for this reason in the society it is written off even further as something they arent supposed to be doing according to their culture. They dont even question the presupposition: "we have gymnastics, they have skating; all is fair and everyone stays in their lane".

I realize now that aside from the artistic disposition to skating being correlated with popularity, the disposition towards masculinity is also correlated. For example Japan and surprisingly even hyper-conservative Russia seem to appreciate masculinity in a more abstract and subjective way. This might also be a big reason as to why the sports thrive there. For example when Russia had no strong women they still appreciated Plushenko, or when Japan wasnt really looking to beat the Russian women they still appreciated Yuzuru, and as such the resilience of the sport is way higher because theres much more opportunity to have a relevant champion. Nathan Chen unfortunately didnt get such love outside of the obligatory, immediate praise for just bringing in a medal to USA.

 

[Kris135]

Do you know what would get USA interested in figure skating again? Winners and long careers. We love people who win. That's it. If they don't win, at least stick around for more than 4 years and be a good personality, so that we remember you for the next Olympics.

Quad axel is a good hook for sure though, but Ilia also has to back it up with major international titles and not bomb on NBC every year at the Nationals. The fact that we can't watch any videos on Youtube NBC channel for more than a couple weeks now is also killing USA interest. Nathan Chen's performances are still up from 4 years ago, but you can't watch Ilia at all. They took down his 2023 GPF SP from this year, but somehow Shoma's 2023 GPF free skate is still up. Makes no sense. The only full performance you can watch of Ilia on USA Youtube is from his GP Skate America 2022 when he landed 4A, and it's from Eurosport, not NBC.

I will say that the quad axel absolutely did hook me though. I was only half-following Nathan Chen by the time of Beijing and had no idea there was a kid named Ilia Malinin doing 4A until I saw it on Youtube with the Eurosport video. I really didn't even know he existed until that video titled "Ilia Malinin produces first Quadruple Axel in Figure Skating Grand Prix history!" (775k views) caught my eye. I missed the whole controversy about the Beijing selection. By the time I saw the video, it was actually 2 months after he did it too, and the GPF was already finished. I think Ilia is also a lot more striking and charismatic on the ice than off the ice, where he can sometimes be pretty awkward still, but no one watches men's FS for the interviews unless it's Johnny Weir vs. Evan Lysacek. That tension and cattiness was entertaining high drama.

And sadly, I agree with @Rebecca Moose, that US will only ever really care about ladies figure skating. Artistic expression in men isn't culturally appreciated on a wide scale, not in the way that Asia or Europe does or can appreciate it. Guys are supposed to be playing football, baseball, or basketball. Isabeau has a video of 8.4 million views from 2022 Nationals when she came in 4th and did a very balletic, pretty-princess routine. Nathan Chen's winning Olympic routine? 1.3 million views.


Edit: I should also say that even on Peacock, it's hard to find skating. It's 3 days and done. There is no selectable tile for figure skating on the Peacock Sports page, while there are tiles for track and field and speed skating. It's like FS doesn't even exist here.

I think Ilia could have that long career. He is only 19 years old, so he has the time to build up the fan base. If he performs at the level he was at the GPF at the worlds he will win his first world title. That should help some more. Also USFS needs to stop depending solely on NBC to promote the sport because they are major reason why the sport is dying because of the horrible coverage that NBC has provided. Last years world's was particularly bad with the only live or same day coverage of the single events being in the wee hours of the morning. This year the tapped coverage of 4CC's was also in the early morning on E! for reasons that escape me. One good piece of news is that both 4CC's and Youth Olympic Games figure skating coverage is still available on replay on Peacock if you want to see it. I really think that if Ari really wants to build a fan base in the United States setting up a Nationwide tour, with current and past Olympic stars like they used to have in the 1990's might do a lot more than these tacky award shows to build a fan base. People need to be able see skating to know that it is out there. Also the USFS needs to start putting events like Skate America in bigger venues so more can actually go to them. I mean one was held the club rink in Norwood, MA of all places. Nationals also needs to be held in different locations around the country instead of the same few places. How about having Nationals in Salt Lake City where the 2034 Winter Olympic Games will be held to start building fan base for when the Olympic Games are there.

I really think though skating needs find new ways to promote the sport and have more events than just the ISU ones. I mean the 1990's there was a pro circuit that used to complement the Olympic eligible one. There were events that had both pro and Olympic eligible skaters competing against each other. Who wouldn't love to see Yuzuru and Javier competing against Ilia and Yuma on the same ice again. Some of the events were kinda cheesy but at least we had them so skaters who did not want to kill themselves on the ISU circuit had ways to fund their skating. Todd Eldredge did nothing but these type of events for 2 entire seasons and came back at 2001 worlds and won a bronze medal. Allowing skaters to do fewer events might allow for longer careers just because there will be less pounding in general on the skaters joints. Nathan career was cut short because all the pounding and the major hip injury he received at 16 years old. I really believe that injury was worse than anybody knew. I think he dealt with all throughout his senior career and after he won the OGM he was done with skating for the most part. Ilia has not had as much wear and tear on his joints as Nathan did because Ilia was doing less jumping in his early years as Nathan was. By age 12 Nathan was doing novice programs with a large number of triple jumps including the triple Axel . Ilia at the same age was only doing doubles so he had to deal with less stress on his growing body. That's why he may have a longer career because of this alone. I wish that there was second act for skaters careers after Olympic level competitions were done because I think that it would make the sport richer than it is now. Because after the ISU and Olympic events there is almost nothing beyond shows and coaching/choreographing for skaters to do. Let's be honest no skater is going to wanting to be doing quads after 30, but many may want to grow in other ways and these days it is hard to do so and get paycheck at the same time so many wind up doing something else and all but leaving skating behind them and that a shame because I believe that many skaters have more to give back to the sport and it would enhance the sport but there needs be way for them to do so and survive in the process.

 

[Mathman]

Realistically, the awards are simply a piece of puffery ...

Well, of course they are. As are all "fan favorite" awards. No harm in that. We cannot realistically expect anything of substance to come out of them no matter who is running the show.

 

[TallyT]

Well, of course they are. As are all "fan favorite" awards. No harm in that. We cannot realistically expect anything of substance to come out of them no matter who is running the show.

Yes, but they could at least pretend it isn't rigged...

 

[el henry]

The question has nothing to do with "Western" and masculinity, in such broad stereotypical terms. The questions are much narrower, toward countries themselves.

Last I checked, Mexico, Central and South America were "West" (whatever that is). Countries where machismo thrives, at least in some parts, because I do not want to be stereotypical myself. And Donovan, even wearing the blingiest of bling costumes, costumes so shiny your eyes hurt, is expanding the sport in those areas.

Yes, I will keep beating this horse until ... well, you know.

 

[Mathematician]

The question has nothing to do with "Western" and masculinity, in such broad stereotypical terms. The questions are much narrower, toward countries themselves.

Last I checked, Mexico, Central and South America were "West" (whatever that is). Countries where machismo thrives, at least in some parts, because I do not want to be stereotypical myself. And Donovan, even wearing the blingiest of bling costumes, costumes so shiny your eyes hurt, is expanding the sport in those areas.

Yes, I will keep beating this horse until ... well, you know.

Well if skating is a thriving sport in Latin America then I guess you're right and I'm wrong

 

[el henry]

Well if skating is a thriving sport in Latin America then I guess you're right and I'm wrong

And where in my post did I premise anything on "thriving".

Skating is growing due to Donovan.

And I am much more impressed by five new skating fans in Ecuador than almost any other growth (unless it is growth in Indonesia, or Africa, or other places with minimal skating history). I adore countries that support their skaters, don't get me wrong. Japanese audiences are amazing. I am just looking at a very global scale.

 

[Mathematician]

And where in my post did I premise anything on "thriving".

Well the discussion was about cultivating a thriving community of skating in regions where there is not so. Donovan brought the flag where it wasnt, so he got attention, I havent seen an obvious effect on the sport itself from him.

 

[Mathman]

Nathan Chen didn't bring FS back to 1990s popularity, but I think his wins and consistency kept it on live US TV and saved it from being in the ditch, which is where Canada is currently. :/

Canada is "rebuilding." It hapens in sports.

As for Nathan, I think your assessment is right. He had an outstanding competitive career and received the amount of attention and media coverage that was available. He also benefitted from being personable and "cool." The 2010 Olympic champion, on the other hand -- bet you had to think a minute before you recalled who it was.

 

[Arriba627]

I dont know how serious you are being but, trivial celebrity involvement is akin to the tiktok marketing scheme. It can generate momentary attention but it wont develop the emotional attachment or relation to athletes required for "real" fans.

Impossible to predict what her involvement would or wouldn't do..She got a bunch of kids to watch the Super Bowl which is no small feat. At this point, why not try anything?

 

[Mathematician]

Impossible to predict what her involvement would or wouldn't do..She got a bunch of kids to watch the Super Bowl which is no small feat. At this point, why not try anything?

Fair point about the super bowl I suppose. I actually forgot that existed let me be honest. I think there are still issues with long term retention as we have discussed earlier about more intrinsic things, like the lack of American competition in skating as compared to football which is a massive factor, and other cultural differences.