Jenny quitting?

[R.D.]

I disagree that Tara is gone and forgotten. Even though her career was brief, I think she is still recognized and known both among figure skating fans and the general public.

If you gave a "name recognition" test to randomly selected Americans, I bet most people would know that Tara Lipinski was a famous figure skater, like Kristi Yamaguchi and Dorothy Hamill.

MM

You have a point here, that most people would associate Tara with figure skating. But, my point is that she didn't get much respect or fame COMPARED TO skaters who stayed longer than her, like MK.

Does anyone else think Sarah is going this route as well?

I'm sure Tara will be remembered in the short term. But I think someone like Kwan will be remembered for much longer, but that's partly because she stayed in the game much longer.

 

[honey827]

There must be some basic flaw in Bebe's skating that non-expert television viewers like me just can't see. I thought she deserved clear third at Nationals last year. But judges everywhere very consistently give her low marks across the board. What are they seeing that I'm not? Does she have weak edges or something, that the average viewer can't see?

It's true that she does not have that ethereal grace thing going for her. But neither does Irina Slutskaya, and the judges like her just fine. For that matter, both Michelle and Sasha have scaled back on the old ethereal grace business lately -- perhaps forced to do so by the CoP.

Mathman

If my memory serves the problem with Bebe has been her injuries and inconsistency. I believe this is the first time she has performed as well as she did at Nationals. I also remember watching her lp from a while ago and thinking while the program was okay it was not going to push her into the top level. I loved both of Bebe's programs at 05 Nationals very well choreographed and suited to her style of skating. The problem for her was that Jenny and Kimmie performed just as well as she did in the sp and Kimmie performed better than her in the lp. Neither she or Jenny did as well as Kimmie in the lp but neither fell apart and the judges went with Jenny. Bebe is still young though and her music selections for this year are very good imo so if she can remain healthy and skate well in competiton she is going to go places imo and could cause an upset at Nationals and make the podium over Kimmie.

 

[hockeyfan228]

In one of her first GP events a couple of years ago, Liang placed very well in the SP, but faltered in the long. That was with her "old" body and style, but the international judges were willing to give a lot of credit it an "unknown" on the senior circuit, while they weren't apt to give Kirk the same credit.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Honey - I think those injuries would cause the inconsistencies. Bebe was in a lot of pain for a couple of years. Let's hope that's the end of the pain and injuries and we will see how inconsistent she is between the SP and LP'

Joe

 

[attyfan]

You have a point here, that most people would associate Tara with figure skating. But, my point is that she didn't get much respect or fame COMPARED TO skaters who stayed longer than her, like MK.

Does anyone else think Sarah is going this route as well?

I'm sure Tara will be remembered in the short term. But I think someone like Kwan will be remembered for much longer, but that's partly because she stayed in the game much longer.

IMO, one of the reasons why Tara (and Sarah) will not be remembered as long as certain other skaters (such as Kristi) is that, after winning the OGM, they both "dropped out of sight" after (comparatively) short show careers. Kristi did not stay Oly-eligible as long as MK, but she skated professionally for over ten years, so the audience never forgot her. However, Tara's "pro career" was less than three full years -- and Sarah on SOI was one season -- so they never had the chance to make the same impact on the public that longer lasting skaters (pro as well as Oly-eligible) made.

 

[mzheng]

And Amber Cown stayed as long as MK, is she known by general fan and public? The long career is not enough for ppl remember. You'd have to have a few titles and some of 'body works' (this is for some true FS fans) to back it up.

 

[gezando]

You have a point here, that most people would associate Tara with figure skating. But, my point is that she didn't get much respect or fame COMPARED TO skaters who stayed longer than her, like MK.

So what is your real point, that Tara should receive more fame, fortune, etc???
Comparing MK and Tara is comparing oranges and apples. It almost comes across that you are begruidging that MK is receiving her deserved respect??

Does anyone else think Sarah is going this route as well?

Compare the last 3 US OGM Sarah seems to have the least press. Kristi has the most. She also is the most accomplished among the three, she is good at both pairs and singles skating. Tara is not that far behind Kristi. I remember for years Kristi was the skater on the NBC yearly Christmas tree Rockerfeller plaza special, then Tara took over. Then the skating part of the special is chack, I do not remember Sarah being a part of that tv special at all. My speculation is that Sarah does not have an agent. So Sarah as an OGM is even less visible than Cohen (who according to millie's definition is just a wannabe) BTW, in an earlier post you were saying that Tara has less endorsement than MK hinting that it is unfair?? (In reality Tara had more or at least equal endorsement) I do not see you whine about Kristi receiving much less endorsement than Nancy post olys 1992.

I'm sure Tara will be remembered in the short term. But I think someone like Kwan will be remembered for much longer, but that's partly because she stayed in the game much longer.

Not sure I agree that Tara will be remember in the short time, I am sure she will make the skating hall of fame some day. I agree that Corwin had a longer skating career than Mk so far, so staying in the game much longer per se is not the factor, but securing world berths for USA year after year maybe

 

[R.D.]

So what is your real point, that Tara should receive more fame, fortune, etc???
Comparing MK and Tara is comparing oranges and apples. It almost comes across that you are begruidging that MK is receiving her deserved respect??

My point was to make a statement (which IMO is a very true statement), not ask that Tara get more recognition or respect. I was just stating an observation, not making an argument.

And Kwan has the accomplishments to back up her extra fame and respect, so no grudges here.

BTW, in an earlier post you were saying that Tara has less endorsement than MK hinting that it is unfair?? (In reality Tara had more or at least equal endorsement) I do not see you whine about Kristi receiving much less endorsement than Nancy post olys 1992.

Again, what I said above. I was just stating something I noticed. I'm not saying it is unfair that Tara isn't getting as much attention as Kwan. In fact, now I think otherwise. And I wasn't around here in 1992 to debate the Nancy/Kristi issue. (However, I will say that if it's the same issue we have with Tara/MK, my thoughts cross directly into that situation as well.)

Not sure I agree that Tara will be remember in the short time, I am sure she will make the skating hall of fame some day. I agree that Corwin had a longer skating career than Mk so far, so staying in the game much longer per se is not the factor, but securing world berths for USA year after year maybe

That was JMO. In this case only time has the answer. So ask me in another 20 years (which most definitely I won't keep up with skating any more so that's even better!). And it is true that Kwan has stayed on top for a while and her skating style seems to attract so many fans so she will be remembered for a long time.

One other thing. Kwan doesn't even NEED the OGM to be remembered in the long-term! Tara does. And it may not even get her that far. Same with Sarah.

 

[Vash01]

IMO, one of the reasons why Tara (and Sarah) will not be remembered as long as certain other skaters (such as Kristi) is that, after winning the OGM, they both "dropped out of sight" after (comparatively) short show careers. Kristi did not stay Oly-eligible as long as MK, but she skated professionally for over ten years, so the audience never forgot her. However, Tara's "pro career" was less than three full years -- and Sarah on SOI was one season -- so they never had the chance to make the same impact on the public that longer lasting skaters (pro as well as Oly-eligible) made.

Another point is that Tara and Sarah were both very young when they won the OGM. We did not see them fully blossom into a mature skater the way we did with Kristi who explored different artistic styles as a pro, without losing her ability to do the triple jumps consistently. When I think of Kristi, I don't think of her OGM performance, which was just OK. I think of all the different performances she did as a pro, the interviews, and the whole person that she is. I am sure Tara and Sarah have matured at the personal level, but we did not get to see that in their skating (we did see it with Tara, to some extent). There has not been much to remember them by. It is not too late for Sarah, however, to establish her identity as a pro.

Ilia Kulik turned pro within a year of winning the OGM but he stayed around a long time as a pro and experimented with different things. While it did not win him pro titles, it kept him in the view, and it is nice to see how much he has developed. I don't think he will be forgotten the way Tara and Sarah seem to be.

Vash

 

[Mathman]

I agree with Vash's post about the importance of what happens after you win the gold medal. Skaters like Peggy Fleming and Dorothy Hamill, along with Kristi, are remembered for continuing to develop their artistic vision as touring pros for many years after their competitive careers had come to a close.

I think Tara will be remembered a lot longer than Sarah, whether fairly or not. In 1998, although Michelle was the favorite, world champion Tara was at least regarded as worthy competition. Sarah's victory was looked upon as something of an unfortunate fluke that dumped cold water on the anticipated showdown between Slutskaya and Kwan.

This is a shame, because certainly Sarah did everything that can be expected of an Olympic champion, and did so with good humor and grace. She paid her dues, worked her way up the elite rankings, dared greatly and seized the moment.

Here is an interesting article written right after the 2002 Olympics predicting fortune following fame for Sarah. According to this author, the big loser was Michelle, to the tune of $10,000,000 worth of endorsement opportunities.

(I don't know to what extent it turned out that way. Michelle seems to be doing OK.)

http://www.usatoday.com/money/advertising/2002-02-25-cover-olympics.htm

Mathman

 

[Rgirl]

ITA with Vash and Mathman. Thanks for the link to the article MM. Everybody's a fortune teller!

Since MM took Tara and Sarah, I'll take Kulik -- anytime, anywhere

Seriously, even though the US is still the major money market for pros, ranging from SOI and COI to Disney on Ice and other small shows, we shouldn't forget that pro tours have increased in other places, Japan and Europe especially.

When either SOI did the dumbest thing ever and did not renew Ilia's contract for 2002, or else the split was mutual (I've heard both) Kulik skated a lot in Japan, where he is wildly popular, and also in Europe, though to a lesser extent than Japan. Now SOI is looking into starting a tour in Europe and have sent Kulik as their star skater to test the market.

And lest I forget, I can assure everyone that Kulik has a strong fan base in the US that is highly dedicated. But then, Kulik gives a lot back to his fans, which I know his fans appreciate. Which reminds me--though forgive me for bringing up this dead horse--perhaps that's Sasha's intent with her journal, giving something back to her fans. Somehow I doubt she writes it for the people who hate her.

Anyway, with no exclusively pro competitions anymore, I think it's up to the OGMs to keep themselves motivated by trying new styles of choreography. Also, IMO, promoters and directors of tours such as COI and SOI are going to have to think "outside the rink" if they want to keep the public filling 12 to 18,000 seat arenas.

A few words about Tara: I feel bad for Tara because the thing she loved to do more than anything, skating, first became excrutiatingly painful in her hip and for two years no physician could correctly diagnose the cause. I'm going by what Tara's written and call me naive, but after years of working with athletes and in health care in general, I believe her. Also, apparently some or perhaps many of the cast and crew of SOI thought Tara was faking her injury, i.e., malingering. (Did you know there is no antonym for malingering in the English language even though people do it all the time, that is, pretend they're not injured or sick even though they really are. Hmm.)

Anyway, Tara had a three- or four-year pro career that was filled with pain, self-doubt, confusion, disbelief from her peers, and a pounding by the press. Although she had surgery that was supposed to correct the problem, it didn't, and by the age of 20, Tara couldn't skate anymore. Maybe she can stroke around the rink and do a few basics, but imagine having something you loved more than anything, working hard and getting good enough to be arguably the best in the world at it, and just when you are supposed to reap the benefits of all the stress and work, you get several years of performing in pain and battling the psychological stresses that go with it. Then by 20, the thing you love is gone from your life.

I know, take a look at any spinal cord or head injury rehab ward and Tara is very fortunate by comparison. It seems her father invested her earnings wissely, so I don't think she'll have to worry about money for many years. But still, I find Tara's story heartbreaking. JMO.

And now something similar seems to have happened to Jenny, the 2001 (IIRC) Jr. Ladies World Champion. With the right music and choreography, e.g. "Chicago," Jenny Kirk could bring down the house. Plus the loss of her mother. Even on a day like today (the Memorial for 9/11/01) and the ongoing heartbreak of unfathomable proportion for the victims of Hurrican Katrina, I'm also sad to hear about Jenny.

Rgirl

 

[Mathman]

(Did you know there is no antonym for malingering in the English language even though people do it all the time, that is, pretend they're not injured or sick even though they really are. Hmm.)

So naturally, in my eternal, doomed quest to prove Rgirl wrong about something, I Googled "malinger antonym," which duly led me to this page ("Write101: Solving your writing problems since 1998!").

http://www.write101.com/W.Tips222.htm

Sure enough, scrolling down to "This week's quiz," it says "match these words with their antonyms," and the first word is "malinger." I thought, hehe, I've got Rgirl now! ... until I looked at the possible answers.

Hmm indeed. :scratch:

MM

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Ilia Kulik turned pro within a year of winning the OGM but he stayed around a long time as a pro and experimented with different things. While it did not win him pro titles, it kept him in the view, and it is nice to see how much he has developed. I don't think he will be forgotten the way Tara and Sarah seem to be.
Vash

When Ilia Kulik turned pro he developed into one the most outstanding figure skaters of all time (his gold Oly meant nothing to me but I'm sure he is proud of that) Kulik developed a sense of musicality that few achieve in their careers. Only Kurt Browning can be compared in that sense and he never won a gold Oly - but so what! There's more to artistic skating than a gold medal.

MM - The only reason Michelle was the favorite in 98 was because she had the most fans on her side, and not because she won everything in site just before the Olys. She was NOT the World Champion. Tara had honor for the Olys. Unfortunately, Tara never developed into a mature skater, imo. That hip was worse than we all thought and certainly curtailed her skating career.

Sarah's win was just about the most puzzling achievement ever. She was far from being a contender for gold and after that Oly SP, one could rule her out completely. But she did indeed win it. Her schooling soon after the Olys prevented her from reenforcing her skills and following up on a career. I haven't seen her skate for sometime, and I am looking forward to her TV show (of course Lambiel will be in it, too).

Kristi, of course, will be remembered for a long time - and I think Midori will too.

And let's not forget Jenifer Kirk for whom this post is dedicated. She had a mature style from day 1, but she had other problems.

Joe

 

[Vash01]

Jenny has so many good qualities as a skater! She had a nice posture, lines, and a lovely smile. I always thought she needed better choice of music and choreography to express herself. 'Chiaco' is about the only program where she really sold the program. I really thought there was a lot more skating left in her, so her early retirement from the sport is very disappointing to me.

 

[SkateFan4Life]

Thanks for posting this. It's a shame that Jenny decided to retire right before the Olympic season, but she knows what's best for her.

She skated some wonderful competitive programs and some really bad competitive programs. I'm not sure whether it was a matter of nerves, injuries, or bad technique. Jenny's World Championship appearances were so disappointing for her, with injuries and programs marred with mistakes.

That being said, I hope she remains in the sport in some capacity, and I wish her the best.

 

[SkateFan4Life]

And, frankly Jenny probably saw the handwriting on the wall. Unless there's a rash of injuries or mistake-laden programs, the US Olympic team will be comprised of Michelle Kwan, Sasha Cohen, and Kimmie Meissner. Jenny probably realized that she was a long-shot to make the Olympic team, at best.

 

[hockeyfan228]

It also had to have hurt when the most enthusiasm Frank Carroll could muster last year was, "she's a nice girl."

 

[gezando]

Again, what I said above. I was just stating something I noticed. I'm not saying it is unfair that Tara isn't getting as much attention as Kwan. In fact, now I think otherwise. And I wasn't around here in 1992 to debate the Nancy/Kristi issue. (However, I will say that if it's the same issue we have with Tara/MK, my thoughts cross directly into that situation as well.)

Actually the discrepancy of achievement post 98 olys between Tara, and Michelle was not as huge as the difference between Kristi and Nancy. Going into 98 olys both Kwan and Lipinski were world gold medalist, and Tara won gold, and Kwan silver. Prior to 92 olys, Kristi was jr world champ in pairs, and world gold in singles, Nancy did not have a world gold, Kristi won olys gold, and Nancy won olys bronze. The discrepancy betweem Kristi's endorsement post 92 olys (practically none) compare to Nancy was huge.

Hughes did not receive that much endorsement post olys 02, I speculate she even receive much less endorsement than Cohen. So I think by going without an agent, Hughes might be hurt financially a bit. There is no one there to spin for her in an official website, e.g. no one to spin for the less than stellar world placement on "I was put into a more difficult qualfiying round, and the skater who beat me was lucky enough to be placed in the easier qualifying round " etc. Of course some skaters make $$ by selling pictures and trinkets on the website, e.g. send in $12 and shipment and handing for an autograph picture. Hughes gives back to her fans, e.g. sending pictures without charging, so even though she does not keep an online journal IMO that is not a reflection of not giving back to her fans. Hughes maybe not as business savvy like other skater who keeps an online journal by taking advantage of the website to generate $$$ Jenny does the same sends pictures without charging, and corresponds with fans by answering their letters.

 

[Bijoux]

Jenny fans, write her!

When she sees the size of the thread she generated, albeit full of tangents, MAYBE SHE WILL SEE A CADRE OF FANS LOVE HER AND COME BACK FIGHTING. SHE AND AMBER DID 3/3'S AND STILL DID NOT PULL TECHNICAL MARKS. Like Angela, she is lost in the long time Michelle Sasha contest. I just watched both of them and they are great skaters.

I think the US Ladies are all feeling intimidated by the japanese jumpers.

Kimmie may have a 3axel, but the grace and maturity of YAMA, Kwan, Tara, Nancy, Sarah, Angela or the Sasha? No way should she be an Olympian because of her jumping alone. Jenny don't quit, you are wonderful to watch!

 

[SkateFan4Life]

It also had to have hurt when the most enthusiasm Frank Carroll could muster last year was, "she's a nice girl."

And Peggy Fleming always, always said, "Jenny is a very pleasant skater".
Good grief, that's not exactly inspiring praise, is it?