Ladies LP

[skatingbc]

True, but I think it's suitable in this case. I did forget to mention that they would also have to create new GOE values for this new table of values, but that isn't hard either. Again...laziness (or lack of insight, take your pick).

Are you saying that a triple jump that is 2 2/3 rotated should be able to receive positive GOE?

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Czisny did a beautiful Gala performance which would have gotten her in the last group of skaters. Unfortunately, it was not scoreable.

Ms Flatt came out just behind the top 4 skaters in the World. She's good underfire and I look forward to seeing her 3A next year along with the 3x3s.

 

[Fae]

^ :scowl: Another fanbot is born!


That is horrible. Why are they kicking her when she's already down? Didn't they treat Miki the same way before? So are they suddenly in love with Miki again because she won bronze? :disapp: (sorry for speaking in questions only)

That's awful! But then again, Alissa Czisny's not exactly having an easy time as well...

I wonder though, if they're harder on her this time because Yuna won. I've noticed that every time JPN and KOR compete against one another in sporting events, there always seems to be loads of political overtones!!!

 

[Not Anybodys Mother]

I just want to say that foul balls aren't completely worthless. Pitch count matters for a lot in baseball, and every extra pitch you make the pitcher throw is a good thing

 

[creamso10]

partially i agree...

Kim deserves to win , no doubt!! But I feel that scores are too inflated. I do not think she deserves the PCS she got both short and long. I feel that judging was really biased and that judges have already decided that they are going to give her more than 200 scores anyway if she skates decent. That will give a little bit more excitement to Figure skating world which seems to be loosing popularity except in Asia, especially right before Olympic. On the other hand, it is killing the excitement for the sports as well. I mean skaters might already think that there is no way to beat that score so why try. It brings boredom to the sports. At this point, nobody can beat that socre and only way to win is for Yu-Na to make huge mistakes. Only skater who might be able to beat that score is Mao, but she has a major work to do with her lutz and confidence issue.
Mao looked very nervous even before she got on the ice. I have read somewhere that her former coach, Yamada said that she had lost motivations after 4CC. By the way I kind of blame Yamada for not teaching lutz correctly from the beginning. She could have had a beautiful lutz now. Maybe this low point may help her to motivate herself and fight for next season.

i agree that Yuna's score was bit inflated. but i think PCS is really depending on the mood of the people at the moment. the crowd was just crazy at that night and the commentors were quite excited and i think that affected PCS. my friends watched her performance live they said it was breath taking. they said you can't compare her to anybody. she simply dominated everybody in the stadium. considering that, i think PCS is really depending on the mood of the crowd. also judges mark skaters comparing with others, right? so if somebody is just dominating, they'll give more marks than others. still, PCS is really hard to define i think... however, currently there's no female skater who can possibly beat Yuna. her talent is so rare both techinically and artistically.

for the other commant. i was impressed with Miki's performance. i think she did bettter than Mao. Miki didn't do very well during Grand Prix but at the World 2009, i really enjoyed her performance

 

[Dipyramidal]

rachael flatt can do a 3a ?

 

[gourry]

rachael flatt can do a 3a ?

I remember watching an interview after maybe 08 Junior worlds (the podium finishers were Rachael, Caroline, and Mirai). There was a question about possible 3A and they said something like they were working on it. We'll see.

 

[mskater93]

There was a comment in an article that yes, she's (Rachel) been working on it (3A) and has landed some clean ones, just not quite ready for prime time (program ready). FWIW, Mroz also has a 4S that's not quite ready for prime time and has worked his SP with a 4T-3T, it's just not consistent yet...

 

[creamso10]

yep...

Yu-Na got that high a score even with a spin not counting?! :scratch:

i heard that she lost about 3.8marks... her spin should have been flying combination spin, but instead she just did combination spin.

since the same spin doesn't count, they gave her 0. pretty scary story i think...

 

[gourry]

About the UR penalty issue, I think the problem is this. The penalty for UR is more about to prevent a skater from attempting habitual UR because in this case the skater obviously doesn't have that jump yet. And I strongly agree with this idea.
However, I totally see this could be harsh for a skater who usually has that jump and makes it so close but somehow UR it occasionally.
The thing is that you can't differenciate those two in a competition.
So even though I feel greatly sorry for the latter, I don't feel it's right to give the former a freeride. So all I can say to the latter is that they had a bad day. Better luck next time.
Besides, is it only me who thinks it's awkward to see jumps divieded into so many revolutions? What is it, like single, single and a half, double, double and a half, double and three quaters, triple, triple and a half??


By the way, very very very much belated congratulations to Yuna, Joannie and Miki!! Overall it was a great competetion -except poor Caro...

 

[dlarry1]

While the diving analogy IS actually valid, Blades has completely misapplied it. If the dive on your list is a, say, forward 3 and a half, and you do a 3 and a belly flop, YOU GET A FAIL DIVE for not completing what you attempted.

And, this is EXACTLY what the rules are designed to say. if you are going to claim to try a triple, then DO it. If you don't, you have FAILED in your attempt.

Diving would reward you for decreasing the degree of difficulty to a dive you can actually do well.

 

[museksk8r]

While the diving analogy IS actually valid, Blades has completely misapplied it. If the dive on your list is a, say, forward 3 and a half, and you do a 3 and a belly flop, YOU GET A FAIL DIVE for not completing what you attempted.

And, this is EXACTLY what the rules are designed to say. if you are going to claim to try a triple, then DO it. If you don't, you have FAILED in your attempt.

Diving would reward you for decreasing the degree of difficulty to a dive you can actually do well.

I agree with you! Very well said. :agree:

 

[wonderlen3000]

for the other commant. i was impressed with Miki's performance. i think she did bettter than Mao. Miki didn't do very well during Grand Prix but at the World 2009, i really enjoyed her performance

Actually Miki did pretty well during her GPF series. She unfortunately have to compete head to head with Yuna in both of her events and with Nakano in SA where both skaters use Giselle program. History had provened that any figure skating competition with two same program is not a good idea. Remember the battle of the Carmen? To be hornest Mao TEB performance was even worse than Miki and yet she end up with silver. She struggle in both SP and LP.

 

[Mathman]

Does a fully rotated triple with a fall/hand-down/step-out get more points than a UR triple that looks clean?

Yes. A lot more.

Except that Single, Double and Triple jump scores don't follow a linear point progression, so it doesn't make sense to use a linear average to score between them. Geometric mean would put it at 3.376, that would be a little better but ...

The proposals put forward last year by an international coaches committee recommended a true linear scale. Quads came out at 24 points, or something like that.

I just want to say that foul balls aren't completely worthless. Pitch count matters for a lot in baseball, and every extra pitch you make the pitcher throw is a good thing

:yes: Ty Cobb used to stand up there and deliberately foul off ten pitches in row, just to wear down the pitcher.

Plus, a baserunner can tag up and score from third on a caught flyball caught in the outfield in foul territory.

According to the ISU rules, underrotation is absolutely, positively the worst crime you can possible commit. Any other mistake, you lose some points for the error and go on with your program. Underrotation? Go directly to jail, do not pass Go, do not collect $200.

To me, all the arguments about underrotation being the work of the Devil, while valid, apply equally to other errors, like wrong edge take-off, step-out or hand down on the landing, whatever.

 

[wonderlen3000]

Well hopefully the ISU figure out a way to fixed the problem with UR call and -GOE. If the skater who had a 7 triples performance, yet end up out side the podium or lost the gold due to UR call it's going to be media frenzy.

The problem is applying the GOE correctly. Personally i don't see the point of having up to +3GOE. ISU should make a rule of only applying up to +2 or -2 GOE and start giving out the GOE in (0.5, 1, 1.5 or 2.0) instead of 1, 2 and 3.
And only a fall will received a -3 GOE. Maybe UR jump with no fall or bad landing, just mendatory -1GOE is sufficient. We are see UR jumps with no fall or bad landing are getting -GOE any where from -0.5 to -2.

 

[Medusa]

Well hopefully the ISU figure out a way to fixed the problem with UR call and -GOE. If the skater who had a 7 triples performance, yet end up out side the podium or lost the gold due to UR call it's going to be media frenzy.

That's actually what I am afraid of too. Imagine a performance à la Nakano last year - and then that girl ends up off the podium, behind a bunch of girls, who either fell, stumbled through their programs or popped a jump. The risk among the ladies is really big for such a scenario (in contrast to men and pairs; where are only very few underrotaters like Lysacek and Qing Pang). It could be the nail in the coffin for figure skating as an Olympic sport.

 

[museksk8r]

Well, I think it's a nail in the coffin to reward notorious UR jumpers like Sarah Hughes and Alissa Czisny, too. Skaters need to fully rotate their jumps!

 

[Wrlmy]

Well, I think it's a nail in the coffin to reward notorious UR jumpers like Sarah Hughes and Alissa Czisny, too. Skaters need to fully rotate their jumps!

museksk8r, did I just notice you speak czech?

 

[museksk8r]

museksk8r, did I just notice you speak czech?

I admit I copied it from Tomas's fan site. It means "Tomas, we (fans) are so proud of you, Congratulations!" And I am proud of him!!

I can speak English, obviously, and Spanish, but unfortunately not Czech. I wish!

 

[Mathman]

And, this is EXACTLY what the rules are designed to say. if you are going to claim to try a triple, then DO it. If you don't, you have FAILED in your attempt.

I would accept this argument if it were applied consistently acroos the board, rather than selectively.

If you take off from the wrong edge on your Lutz attempt, then you have failed to do a Lutz jump. 0 points.

If you fall on the landing you have not completed the jump. 0 points.

What I object to is singling out underrotation and treating it differently from other types of errors which are just as bad.

...Imagine a performance à la Nakano last year - and then that girl ends up off the podium, behind a bunch of girls, who either fell, stumbled through their programs or popped a jump. The risk among the ladies is really big for such a scenario...

It could be the nail in the coffin for figure skating as an Olympic sport.

I think the ISU will relax the rules for the Olympics, exactly for this reason.