Men's Short Program

[slutskayafan21]

That's what I think too. I do appreciate Lambiel's skating, and I wasn't trying to slam him when I said I didn't think he'd win (although he still could) It's just when I heard about the jump struggles, I had a feeling that he just wasn't there yet.. It's good to know he's working on that triple axel.

I dont think he will win anymore. He isnt even going to try a triple axel, he will probably miss something else; and Evan is a very consistent long program skater who is 11 points ahead already. I wouldnt be surprised if he passed Johnny for 2nd though. Johnny always turns in a strange long program performance.

 

[Tonichelle]

Dissapointed in Lambiels performance obviously but even more dissapointed in the unjustice in how they marked 1st and 2nd place. No way does Evan deserve to be over Johnny, and higher PCS for their respective performances :no:, truly a sham. It is judging like that which continues to turn fans off this sport and rescind its popularity.

Evan skates out to the crowd, Johnny's more introspective... I think that has a lot to do with presentation marks... it's always been emphasized that if you can grab the audience/judges then you've got that mark.

 

[slutskayafan21]

Evan skates out to the crowd, Johnny's more introspective... I think that has a lot to do with presentation marks... it's always been emphasized that if you can grab the audience/judges then you've got that mark.

You are probably right. Evan relates to the crowd better, while Johnny is more introverted.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

You are probably right. Evan relates to the crowd better, while Johnny is more introverted.

That's part of the difference between Bravuro and Lyrical. One is with the audience; the other is with the music.

Joe

 

[Mathman]

Still, I think only one of the five program components (performance/execution) is supposed to take that into account. IMHO Johnny is markedly superior in the other four.

BTW, is Johnny's 'lip so bad that you can't tell his flip from his Lutz? I have seen his jumps reported as "3Lz+3T, 3A, 3F," and also as "3F+3T, 3A, 3Lz."

 

[Tonichelle]

Still, I think only one of the five program components (performance/execution) is supposed to take that into account. IMHO Johnny is markedly superior in the other four.

"supposed" being the opperative word, here.

 

[jennylovskt]

Can a skater dominate a competition but doesn't have many fans? Evan is an example. Strange, in deed. What is the definition of PCS? Maybe Evan has many more casual fans than hard core skating fans, and Johnny has the opposite? Just a few thoughts. I haven't seen any of their skating yet.

 

[bekalc]

Personally, I think the judges respect Evan more than Johnny even though Johnny's the better basic skater..

In someways, Evan has earned that respect, and Johnny needs to earn the respect back.. Personally, I respect Evan too because he seems to be a hard worker, who tries really hard. Johnny on the other hand is more talented and has really squandered his talent. I'm glad to hear though that Johnny seems to finally be getting his act together. But why so many people prefer Johnny to Evan is beyond me. If the USFSA was fed up with Johnny last year, I don't blame them.

Also, I think that perhaps the judges were also acknowledging the fact that Evan was the only top man go for the quad and triple axel.. And maybe, they kind of respect that.

 

[slutskayafan21]

I think judges comes to respect a skater who bases their success on hard work, competitiveness, and determination. Look at how much they came to back Katarina Witt, even with all the glaring technique and stylistic flaws in her skating. When people talk about her legacy, little talk is about any actual part of her skating, but about her great competiveness, her will to win, he ability to rise to any challenge, etc....

 

[Hsuhs]

Have just finished watching it on RaiSportSat (they're great!).

What can I say? The judges were VERY generous, IMHO. It was great to see Johnny doing his best. That 3A was a beauty. I couldn't see his 3F clearly, b/c of the camera angle. The music still puts me to sleep, but it was a good SP overall. Not great, but very well done. You can see he's been working hard to improve. Nice job, Johnny!

Looks like Johnny has tamed Galina too (yes, he's gifted in that departement. He makes females melt). She didn't look scary at all in the K&C.

I read Johnny's been doing 4-3(or 2) in practice. If only he could produce one of those tomorrow....

 

[Hsuhs]

But why so many people prefer Johnny to Evan is beyond me.

B/c of Johnny's personality, among other things?

 

[slutskayafan21]

But why so many people prefer Johnny to Evan is beyond me.

Well his skating is more pleasing to the eye (in the opinion of most people) for starters.

 

[bekalc]

Well his skating is more pleasing to the eye (in the opinion of most people) for starters.

Well, I agree with that... But I still respect Evan as a competitor more, it's hard for me to respect a skater whose squandered their potential.. Although I am starting to respect Johnny for seemingly getting his act together.

 

[Mathman]

Maybe Evan has many more casual fans than hard core skating fans, and Johnny has the opposite?

I think this may be true.

But both of them have given fans and detractors alike a boatload of amunition to use to make fun of them (mostly good-natured, I think.)

Johnny is an iconoclast as well as being artsy-fartsy. Many people can't decide whether they admire him, are put off, or merely amused when he models androgynous haute couture on the catwalk, for instance.

Evan, on the other hand, has allowed USFS to put words in his mouth along the lines:

"I'm...

"Too macho for my Sport...

"Too macho for my Clothes...

"Too macho for my Choreography...

"Too macho for my Girlfriend..."

Although in that last instance i have to cut Evan some slack. If Tanith were my girlfriend I'd be doing a little macho crowing myself.

 

[Ximena]

Looks like Johnny has tamed Galina too (yes, he's gifted in that departement. He makes females melt). She didn't look scary at all in the K&C.

I noticed that too , I saw the K&C and I was "is that Galina?? Really???" Well yes, there's something about Johnny. . The smile looks good on Galina.

As for the performances (I've just watched Johnny-Evan-Lambiel)

Johnny: I'm so bias towards him, I love that program! But ok trying to be more objective, I think his straightline footwork is not particularly that difficult. I think he may not have gotten too many GOE for his combo and flip, they were not bad at all, but he was tilting a little on the lutz though the toe he did it great, and the landing of the flip was a little off too. The axel was gorgeous! It's great to have the old Johnny back. Love the "spasiba" at the K&C

Evan: I prefer Johnny over Evan but I can totally see why Evan won, he was so much faster, then I guess the music calls for that. But Evan skate quite confidently like "this is going to work OR is going to work!" You can see it in the expression as soon the program was over. The quad was underrotated, but I don't know if it was more than 1/4 but you can see it in the slow mo, the toe lands 1/4 or a little less underrotated and then forced his feet in place. Though honets his axel looked more underrotated to me. I think the SC techinical called would have downgraded those. Overall though I liked it better than in SA.

As for the PCS marks between them, I would make their IN and CH marks the same.

Stephane: Ok this is just my opinion but I think he's being very smart in how the programs is done. The first jump is the axel, which for what I've read the 2a was planned, but I think Lambiel as everyone knows that his 3a is the weakness so by putting it first, in case he doubles it or fall on it, it really does not break the continuity of the program because most of the program comes after that; of course I don't think he thought he was going to fall on the quad. That quad has got to be downgraded right? The slow mo show very clearly that he fell exactly 1/4 short. He has pumped his program with transitions and very good footwork to make up for the jumps which now kind of explains the mark (well I mean, I read before watching "fall on a quad and double the axel" so I didn't understand the marks), but now after watching I think that he beat Evan and Johnny in TR is completely fair. While it's sad that apparently he has lost the 3a, it's great to hear that he is working on it.

 

[DaveT]

Well, I agree with that... But I still respect Evan as a competitor more, it's hard for me to respect a skater whose squandered their potential.. Although I am starting to respect Johnny for seemingly getting his act together.

I loathe Evan's skating but do respect his ability to skate clean more often than Johnny. It's not always the best skater who wins, someone can come in and land everything and beat them. I am surprised that Evan's skating to a jump, skating to a jump, then skating to a jump received 7.10 for transistions though. At least there's no "voguing" in this program as last year's short and his exhibition from COI, but plenty of head jerking and meaningless body spasms that still annoy me, but I suppose your choreographic limitations have to be covered somehow, I like the term "bravado" I read earlier, very fitting.

 

[dwiggin3]

I think this may be true.

:

"I'm...

"Too macho for my Sport...

"Too macho for my Clothes...

"Too macho for my Choreography...

"Too macho for my Girlfriend..."

Although in that last instance i have to cut Evan some slack. If Tanith were my girlfriend I'd be doing a little macho crowing myself.

LOL...but I must disagree with you...I don't think Tanith is that good looking. It's lonely in my world, I know.

 

[Linny]

Videos?

Are there videos posted somewhere?
Linny

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Still, I think only one of the five program components (performance/execution) is supposed to take that into account. IMHO Johnny is markedly superior in the other four.

We will always disagree with this different discriptions of musical performers until you take a 101 Course in Music. It doesn't mean one is better than the other.Some skaters have enough of both, true, but they are a rare breed and the men in question are decidedly one sided but good at what they do have in style. (Some skaters, btw, have neither.}

It's not enough to go after a descriptive read on how to win a competition. It's a question of style and that is not listed inthe PCS's criteria.

I like Daisuke's bravura and Johnny's lyrical, and either one can win the Worlds provided they do 2 Quads because style does not enter the scoring.

Joe

 

[Ausrick]

Maybe Evan has many more casual fans than hard core skating fans, and Johnny has the opposite?

I think this may be true.

Nope. There isn't a more 'casual' fan in the world than me but I'm only here because I'm interested in how JW is going.

Johnny is an iconoclast as well as being artsy-fartsy. Many people can't decide whether they admire him, are put off, or merely amused when he models androgynous haute couture on the catwalk, for instance.

Evan, on the other hand, has allowed USFS to put words in his mouth along the lines:

"I'm...Too macho for my Sport...my Clothes.. my Choreography... for my Girlfriend..."

Apart from all that, JW can actually skate as us plebs think it should be done, not that it seems to matter.

I'm really, really pleased to see him still in there, even if I haven't seen the performance.

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