Men's Short Program

[Tonichelle]

Can a skater dominate a competition but doesn't have many fans? Evan is an example. Strange, in deed. What is the definition of PCS? Maybe Evan has many more casual fans than hard core skating fans, and Johnny has the opposite? Just a few thoughts. I haven't seen any of their skating yet.

I'm not sure he last fewer hardcore fans... just maybe quieter ones? I dunno... I enjoy Evan more for the reasons I stated earlier... he grabs the audience... he acknowledges he isn't the only one there...

Johnny makes no emotional connection to ME whatsoever, so it's harder for me to see him. Besides he said republicans can't like him during the olys... so I'm just following the rules (no I'm never going to drop the poor word choice issue lol I find it hysterical and annoying... and I was so tempted to send him a thesaurus)

 

[moojja]

Can a skater dominate a competition but doesn't have many fans? Evan is an example. Strange, in deed. What is the definition of PCS? Maybe Evan has many more casual fans than hard core skating fans, and Johnny has the opposite? Just a few thoughts. I haven't seen any of their skating yet.

As an Evan fan, this is my first time posting. I never posted before because all of you seem to hate him. It's just too scary to stand up and say I like him. I like him for his skating skills, and I love his presentation style. There are so many negative things said about him, it's hard to be the one dissenting voice, even on a skating board.

I do think a lot Evan fans avoid skating boards for that reason. After all, he doesn't need somebody to defend him on a skating board, and it's easier to just let it go.

 

[Ausrick]

Well his skating is more pleasing to the eye (in the opinion of most people) for starters.

II enjoy Evan more for the reasons I stated earlier... he grabs the audience... he acknowledges he isn't the only one there...

But, but.. JW mostly skates like there's no-one there at all :thumbsup:

No Plushy arm-flailing or Evan Carmen faux-bullfighting nonsense.

Johnny makes no emotional connection ..he said republicans can't like him during the olys... so I'm just following the rules

Okay then.

 

[Ausrick]

As an Evan fan, this is my first time posting. I never posted before because all of you seem to hate him. It's just too scary to stand up and say I like him.

You're kidding, right ? Does Tonichelle ring a bell, ding-ding ?

I do think a lot Evan fans avoid skating boards for that reason. After all, he doesn't need somebody to defend him on a skating board, and it's easier to just let it go.

Sure, okay, it's true that Evan couldn't skate his way out of a wet-paper bag but I don't think people actually hate him for it.

 

[DaveT]

As an Evan fan, this is my first time posting. I never posted before because all of you seem to hate him. It's just too scary to stand up and say I like him. I like him for his skating skills, and I love his presentation style. There are so many negative things said about him, it's hard to be the one dissenting voice, even on a skating board.

I do think a lot Evan fans avoid skating boards for that reason. After all, he doesn't need somebody to defend him on a skating board, and it's easier to just let it go.

No one's opinion out-values anyone else's. I'm not a fan, but who am I and who cares what I think? I would encourage you to bask in your Evan love!!! It's those I disagree with I generally learn the most from.

 

[seafoam]

I enjoy Evan more for the reasons I stated earlier... he grabs the audience... he acknowledges he isn't the only one there...

I think there are different ways to grab the audience. Evan has his way (although I think a skater like Ryan Bradley is the better showman) and Johnny has his. When Johnny is "on", he is absolutely hypnotic to watch--for me, anyway. But with his more subtle, introspective style of skating, it's more difficult to fake it if he doesn't feel it.

Johnny makes no emotional connection to ME whatsoever, so it's harder for me to see him. Besides he said republicans can't like him during the olys... so I'm just following the rules (no I'm never going to drop the poor word choice issue lol I find it hysterical and annoying... and I was so tempted to send him a thesaurus)

Well, Evan really does't make an emotional connection to ME, lol--so we're even. All the uber-dramatik stuff is just not my thing. And the music he chooses has a lot to do with how he comes across to the audience. He very smartly uses stuff (like Carmen and Tosca) that have been road-tested to have an almost Pavlovian effect on an audience. It would be interesting to see if he had the same effect with something less familiar.

As for the Republican comment--I know most Republicans aren't like this, but it's amazing (and rather horrifying) how often Johnny got viciously trashed on conservative blogs, etc. I mean, really over the top stuff.

Anyway, as I'm sure you're aware, Johnny clarified that comment--and I think he was quite accurate about what many social conservatives would think of him.

 

[Eddie Lee]

Johnny is the more talented. Evan is the harder worker. That's the way I see it. Evan does NOT give up. Johnny does. Evan doesn't make excuses. Johnny does--and then promises to do better. I have always hated to see wasted talent. I loathe laziness. When Johnny is on (and that has been rare in the past two years) he is remarkable. But it's hard to be "on" if you don't put out the work--consistently. And it's hard to put out the work consistently when you are undisciplined and just too busy trying to be the "star"! Harsh, but true!

 

[enlight78]

I just got done looking at Evan's and Johnny's short on youtube. Evan die a great job selling the program. He also had a lot of speed. The quad was slightly cheated. I think it is less than 1/4, it hard to tell by the camara angle. He prerottated the 3A a 1/2 turn before his skates completely left the ice. I don't think the judges notice since his TEs were very high.

Johnny did very well. He had good jumps,spins ,and speed. I think he need more transitions in order to sell the program since he is such an introverted skater. The music doesn't help either. If it was any other skater I would have probably fell asleep.

 

[emma]

No one's opinion out-values anyone else's. I'm not a fan, but who am I and who cares what I think? I would encourage you to bask in your Evan love!!! It's those I disagree with I generally learn the most from.

I totall agree!!! I never understood what people saw in Carolina kostner until reading on this board - and I am a huge fan now. I don't loooooovvvveee Evan's skating, but I sure do admire his competitive spirit - he works hard, controls his nerves, rises to the occassion, engages the crowd --- these are all fantastic qualities.

THanks for the scores and discussion - I hate not seeing this; and my heart broke a little to hear Lambiel fell on a quad - not good; but I hope he comes back strong in the LP. I'm so happy that Weir started of solid, way to go! And good for Evan for NOT backing down on that quad - takes guts!!

 

[Tinymavy15]

If Evan skates his long program to Tosca like he did at Skate America I think he will win. As much as I don't like him, he really rocked that program at Skate America. He got a standing ovation for it....only one out of three...the other two being Caroline Zhang's long program and Daisuke's short program in case you were wondering!

Actually Caroline got a standing ovatian for BOTH programs.

Have just finished watching it on RaiSportSat (they're great!).

What can I say? The judges were VERY generous, IMHO. It was great to see Johnny doing his best. That 3A was a beauty. I couldn't see his 3F clearly, b/c of the camera angle. The music still puts me to sleep, but it was a good SP overall. Not great, but very well done. You can see he's been working hard to improve. Nice job, Johnny!

Looks like Johnny has tamed Galina too (yes, he's gifted in that departement. He makes females melt). She didn't look scary at all in the K&C.

I read Johnny's been doing 4-3(or 2) in practice. If only he could produce one of those tomorrow....

I doubt that Johnny will try a quad. It's not like this competition is vital or anything. Lambiel will propably skate well enough for a podium finsh, but I will be stunned if there is not at least one major mistake and Evan's quad is not perfect. So johhny might not even need the quad to win, certianly not to medal. I think that he will land quad/quad combos in practice, but seems determined not to at least try them in competition.

 

[ae9177]

As an Evan fan, this is my first time posting. I never posted before because all of you seem to hate him. It's just too scary to stand up and say I like him. I like him for his skating skills, and I love his presentation style. There are so many negative things said about him, it's hard to be the one dissenting voice, even on a skating board.

I do think a lot Evan fans avoid skating boards for that reason. After all, he doesn't need somebody to defend him on a skating board, and it's easier to just let it go.

Welcome on board! Evan DOES have a solid and broad fan base, but my impression is that lots of his fans are low-key type of persons like you said. Like-idol, like-fans, probably?

I do have lots of respect on him, he's extremely hardworking and deciplined, who always skates with integrity, dignity and heart, who always give it 200%, never hold back, and never give up. I'm more impressed by him this season than last season, he'll be somebody to watch out in the next 2 years! :yes:

 

[Mathman]

As an Evan fan, this is my first time posting. I never posted before because all of you seem to hate him. It's just too scary to stand up and say I like him. I like him for his skating skills, and I love his presentation style. There are so many negative things said about him, it's hard to be the one dissenting voice, even on a skating board.

I do think a lot Evan fans avoid skating boards for that reason. After all, he doesn't need somebody to defend him on a skating board, and it's easier to just let it go.

First, welcome to the forum. :agree: Thanks for joining in. Post often, post long!

And never, never, never let the meanies have the last say!

(PS. Evan rules! )

 

[Dodhiyel]

Thanks for all the descriptions and comments. I have not yet seen the skating itself, but thanks to you I have a pretty good sense of what went on.

I agree that everyone is entitled to love the skater they love, for whatever reasons. That's why they make so many flavors of ice cream....

I admire/enjoy the work of several skaters in Men's Singles, and some of the ones I like to watch are not necessarily at or near the top in ranking.

I hope that YouTube will allow us to see the skaters whose performances don't make it to a telecast; some of my favorites are in that category. I like different skaters for different reasons.

Johnny has the ability to please me aesthetically, in the extreme. His "Otonal" will be with me forever. The fluidity and naturalness of his performance in that, was an ideal realized. Unfortunately, afterwards, USFS decided that spin levels or whatever mattered more than sheer perfection, so I did not blame Johnny for losing interest to some extent. I blame USFS.

Evan was raw when first I saw him work; Frank Carroll polished him. Evan always had successful jumps; I knew that if Frank could teach him how to do all the rest of it, Evan would get medals. However, Evan is not a natural in his style; it looks impossibly phony to me, melodramatic and manipulative of the audience, so I am not an Evan fan, although I do appreciate his emotional toughness, his habit of coming back in the FS after flubbing the SP.

Stephane is a spinner; the jumps are not his natural forte, in my opinion. CoP has been advantageous for him. I remember when he did double axel after double axel, to acquire points the relatively easy way; I did not respect it. I am glad to see him trying to do things that do not come easily to him, but that I consider the hallmark of a male singles skater. CoP almost deprived us of the male triple axel; fortunately, that trend to crown men's single skaters who were incapable of a triple axel in competition, has not ultimately triumphed. It would have been especially embarrassing for the ISU if that trend had continued, since some ladies have been essaying triple axels with various degrees of success.

I really believe that the SP in men's skating should require a triple axel; I saw so much heroic skating by the men before CoP, it spoiled me rotten lol. If the skating is not heroic in nature, then I want it to be surpassingly beautiful. One of the things I love about Johnny Weir, is that he can be so beautiful on the ice, but he also has a magnificent triple axel. Go, Johnny, go!!!!!

One skater whom I have only gotten to see on YouTube, that really interests me, is Karel Zelenka. I was blown away when I saw his "Blues for Klook" program from Euros. It was such an integrated program, fluid, natural, and beautifully athletic. I'd like to see a lot more of his work.

 

[Ximena]

I think that if Johnny wants to win this event, either he'll hit that quad or he better make sure to land all his triples and remember this time he can do 8 jumping passes. Evan's PCS scores are now the same than Johnny's which used to be what gave him the edge over Evan, so now he has to beat him in the tech. As for Lambiel, Johnny is 9 points above him but Lambiel hits the 80 mark on PCS while Johnny's are around 72-75 so those 9 points are really no advantage for Johnny since Stephane regardless of what he lands tomorrow, he'll get those marks; so Johnny again will have to beat Stephane in the tech mark.

I really hopes that if the quad is in the plans, he goes for it; because it's no use to just try in the big events when there's so much pressure on him. He needs to start getting used to it.

 

[1cmarie]

Dodhiyel, you and I are of the same mind when it comes to skating nowadays, particularly for the men (my favorite discipline). ITA w/ everything you said

 

[Mathman]

We will always disagree with this different discriptions of musical performers until you take a 101 Course in Music. It doesn't mean one is better than the other....

I like Daisuke's bravura and Johnny's lyrical, and either one can win the Worlds provided they do 2 Quads because style does not enter the scoring.

The question was about Lysacek and Weir, not Takahashi. In my opinion Weir does a better job of representing the lyrical style than Evan does with the bravura style.

Even though people dance in different styles, a viewer can still maintain the opinion that one dancer is better than another.

OT, I agree about Takahashi, though.

 

[discoduck]

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I perefer Weir to Lysacek. I like Johnny's artistry and I think Evan is lacking in that area. Before anyone lynches me....remember it's MY opinion, I'm not asking anyone to agree with me.

A lot of people don't like Johnny's personality and I can understand that. It doesn't bother me though but there are times when maybe he should keep his thoughts to himself.

As for Johnny's fans being more vocal. I don't think that's necessarily true. I know a lot of very vocal Evan fans who have told me I was full of crap on more than one occasion because I said I didn't care for Evan's skating. I'm sorry but I don't. Take me out back and shoot me. On second thought, maybe you shouldn't.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

The question was about Lysacek and Weir, not Takahashi. In my opinion Weir does a better job of representing the lyrical style than Evan does with the bravura style.

Even though people dance in different styles, a viewer can still maintain the opinion that one dancer is better than another.

OT, I agree about Takahashi, though.

You got it. That's why I used Takahashi. I do not think Evan has yet completed his style whatever it is, but he is going in the right direction. Johnny is just a natural, and Takahashi is too.

In comparing Kwan with Cohen and ignoring the Tech, I would enjoy both of them for what they bring to their performances. Not necessary to choose, for me.

Joe

 

[Hsuhs]

I doubt that Johnny will try a quad. It's not like this competition is vital or anything.

I really hopes that if the quad is in the plans, he goes for it; because it's no use to just try in the big events when there's so much pressure on him. He needs to start getting used to it.

I too think it's about time to start landing those quads. Otherwise, Johnny'll be 3rd tomorrow (or is it today already?) if Evan's clean, and Stephane's semi-clean.

 

[chuckm]

If Johnny lands 7 clean or near-clean triples in the FS and Lambiel has his usual messy FS with a quad but no 3As and other jump problems, Johnny can still beat Lambiel without a quad because Johnny has a 9-point lead going into the FS.

If they were close going into the FS, there's no question Johnny would have to go for the quad to beat Lambiel.