Stephane always scores higher than Johnny in PCS that could easily make up for at least 5-6 points out of those 9 Johnny has over him now. A clean Lambiel would get over 80 in PCS, a not so clean Lambiel falling and doubling still will get 75 in PCS, Johnny gets 75 in an excellent performance.
Men's Short Program
- Thread starter SailorGalaxia518
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Stephane always scores higher than Johnny in PCS that could easily make up for at least 5-6 points out of those 9 Johnny has over him now. A clean Lambiel would get over 80 in PCS, a not so clean Lambiel falling and doubling still will get 75 in PCS, Johnny gets 75 in an excellent performance.
Must be those spins (?)
Hmm, well Lambiel's spins probably are marked quite highly but the PCS scores has nothing to do with Spins.
Also Lambiel is doing Flamenco again, meaning he is even more confortable with that programs, those PCS scores are going to huge tomorrow (today if you are there)
Making up 5-6 of the 9-point deficit won't help if Johnny outscores Stephane in the TES in the FS. As I said, to beat Lambiel, Johnny MUST land 7 clean/near-clean triples.
The question is CAN Lambiel skate a clean FS?
Lambiel won SC 2006 after being way behind both Takahashi and Lambiel in the SP, even further behind than he is today. Both men self-destructed in the FS, and even though Lambiel had a messy FS himself, he edged Takahashi to win.
As a Weir and Lysacek fan, I'm hoping history doesn't repeat itself.
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- Jan 6, 2007
I know that these PCS are also subjective, but in my opinion Mr.Weir should not get less, or at least not much less, points than M.Lambiel on them. What I noticed about Johnny Weir's skating are his arms - he does not throw them around, he does not look like he is trying to fly with them - but he still uses them. His positions, especially his arms, are beautiful. And neither M.Lambiel and especially not Mr.Lysacek can compete with Mr.Weir concerning the use of the arms.
Both of them are much faster on the ice than Mr.Weir (who is very graceful, but rather slow on the ice), but I do not think that this makes them automatically the better skaters, Mr.Lysacek moves so fast that you sometimes cannot see what he is doing and our guy from Switzerland starts his programs very artistically, and slower, but often starts racing and fluttering with his arms after 30 seconds.
Today I would not have given M.Lambiel or Mr.Lysacek more points on the PCS than Johnny Weir, both their programs seemed rushed, not especially graceful or very artistic.
Both of them are much faster on the ice than Mr.Weir (who is very graceful, but rather slow on the ice), but I do not think that this makes them automatically the better skaters, Mr.Lysacek moves so fast that you sometimes cannot see what he is doing and our guy from Switzerland starts his programs very artistically, and slower, but often starts racing and fluttering with his arms after 30 seconds.
Today I would not have given M.Lambiel or Mr.Lysacek more points on the PCS than Johnny Weir, both their programs seemed rushed, not especially graceful or very artistic.
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- Jul 11, 2003
Stephane is a complete danseur on ice. Not just the ballet but everything else in Dance. Every competitor has now copied his spins and some do it better than him. See if you can judge the tempo to the music, the nuances in the body language, the constant connecting steps for all contestants. I think you will agree that Lambiel has all this. Buttle has it and Johnny comes close. Otherwise you can just judge clean routines which is important.
Of course quads are the thing in male skating - not dance.
Joe
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Now, the immediate problem................how to get YOU
on the judges panel!
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- Oct 27, 2004
Hey guys, I'm sorry I didn't get to finish doing the Men's SP and the Pairs FS. I tried to stay awake this time and it got the best of me...but I got alot of sleep today so I should be ok for tonight. Cannot wait.
With that being said, Good Job, Evan...........His SP score of 81.55 I believe is the highest SP score so far surpassing Daisuke Takahashi's SP score of 80.04. Woohoo!!!!!!!!
Also, Good job for Johnny, I lurve his new hair style.
Maybe the U.S. Men can bounce back come world championships
With that being said, Good Job, Evan...........His SP score of 81.55 I believe is the highest SP score so far surpassing Daisuke Takahashi's SP score of 80.04. Woohoo!!!!!!!!
Also, Good job for Johnny, I lurve his new hair style.
Maybe the U.S. Men can bounce back come world championships
I think my throw-away comment about Lambiel's spins was taken more seriously than I intended. There are three skaters that I absolutely enjoy watching more than any other across all disciplines: Johnny, Daisuke, and Lambiel. "Lambiel is tops" because he deserves to be there, of course. But to me, his most oustanding quality - the one that separates him from the rest of the field - are his spins. That's all I meant
I don't know. I remember reading an interview where Stephane discussed how he hates what COP did to spins. Lambiel spent years of his life perfecting fast centered/ maybe some position change spins. They were wonderful, and they were great.
Then COP came along and they wanted all of those change of edge spins. And Lambiel went to 2005 Europeans thinking that his level 1 gorgeous spins would get plus 3 GOE points. Nope, they gave him only plus 1 because the ISU literally wanted to pressure him to learn the newer spins. Lambiel himself said the whole thing was "quite hard on him." And his spins aren't as nice as they once were.
In fact I think in the Olympics Plushenko scored higher on spins. :disagree:
For me, I understand why some may prefer Johnny's style. But I think a lot of people seem to feel sorry for Johnny and relate to him etc.. And I'm really not sure...It's hard for me to feel sorry for Johnny because I think Johnny has all the talent in the world. It's just Johnny hasn't been willing to live up to that talent...It seems like this year, Johnny is and I'm glad to see it.
In contrast, I think Evan is less talented, but he seems to really want to work for it, doesn't give up, and Evan doesn't make excuses. I don't think we'd ever hear Evan say "I missed the bus." One thing that bugged me about Johnny is went around during the Olympics talking about Sasha would cave under pressure. And yeah it's true that Sasha did... But you know what Sasha has had a lot more success than Johnny and she never made the braindead mistakes Johnny made (like missing a whole jumping pass over and over again). She also seemed to always go for it...
I remember reading an interview three years ago where they asked Plushenko what he thought of the fact that men like Weir were landing the quad in practice. Plushenko said he had no respect for skaters who were landing the quad in practice but weren't trying to go for it in competition. (He said that he respected Joubert as a competitor). He said the reason is that he thinks that people like that who weren't going for the quad, that just tells him that they are quite happy with the position they are in skating. They are afraid to do the quad because they are afraid to lose 4th place....(for example) or a medal. Plushenko's argument was that well ques what your position is not first place. So what are you trying to protect. Don't you want to win?
So I totally respect Evan as well for going for the quad. Yeah he might miss it in a few short programs and it might be risky. But it says that in the long run Evan wants to win, and that he's not happy with just being 3rd. I think Johnny needs to come to the place where he's no longer happy being where he's at, and no longer feels the need to protect it.
Then COP came along and they wanted all of those change of edge spins. And Lambiel went to 2005 Europeans thinking that his level 1 gorgeous spins would get plus 3 GOE points. Nope, they gave him only plus 1 because the ISU literally wanted to pressure him to learn the newer spins. Lambiel himself said the whole thing was "quite hard on him." And his spins aren't as nice as they once were.
In fact I think in the Olympics Plushenko scored higher on spins. :disagree:
For me, I understand why some may prefer Johnny's style. But I think a lot of people seem to feel sorry for Johnny and relate to him etc.. And I'm really not sure...It's hard for me to feel sorry for Johnny because I think Johnny has all the talent in the world. It's just Johnny hasn't been willing to live up to that talent...It seems like this year, Johnny is and I'm glad to see it.
In contrast, I think Evan is less talented, but he seems to really want to work for it, doesn't give up, and Evan doesn't make excuses. I don't think we'd ever hear Evan say "I missed the bus." One thing that bugged me about Johnny is went around during the Olympics talking about Sasha would cave under pressure. And yeah it's true that Sasha did... But you know what Sasha has had a lot more success than Johnny and she never made the braindead mistakes Johnny made (like missing a whole jumping pass over and over again). She also seemed to always go for it...
I remember reading an interview three years ago where they asked Plushenko what he thought of the fact that men like Weir were landing the quad in practice. Plushenko said he had no respect for skaters who were landing the quad in practice but weren't trying to go for it in competition. (He said that he respected Joubert as a competitor). He said the reason is that he thinks that people like that who weren't going for the quad, that just tells him that they are quite happy with the position they are in skating. They are afraid to do the quad because they are afraid to lose 4th place....(for example) or a medal. Plushenko's argument was that well ques what your position is not first place. So what are you trying to protect. Don't you want to win?
So I totally respect Evan as well for going for the quad. Yeah he might miss it in a few short programs and it might be risky. But it says that in the long run Evan wants to win, and that he's not happy with just being 3rd. I think Johnny needs to come to the place where he's no longer happy being where he's at, and no longer feels the need to protect it.
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- Mar 28, 2005
The new system has robbed Lambiel of any of his advantage of having the best spins in the World. It is a crime. It just shows how strong he is that with all his injuries, with his biggest strength and edge removed by stupid scoring system, and with his inconsistent jumps, he still won 2 World titles, an Olympic silver, and another World medal.
I think he got to that place last year, and we're seeing the results of that right now. I also think seeing Evan ahead of him may even be the deciding factor in his going for the quad, now that he's realized he can't fall back on his program score.
I also think he needs to change some of the transitions of the short to make them more difficult, but the long may be different in that respect.
I love that about Johnny, you can watch the program, just from the waist up and still enjoy it because he checks his arms all the time.
Well but that's COP does, it's not Plush fault, though I have to give Plush kudos because when COP started he said that most difficult thing for him was to try to spin changing edges because all his life (he was 23 when CoP was implemented?) he never learn to do that.
That's my poing too, a lot of people said "it's not all about the quads" but the quads are there to push the sport forward. It IS a sport, in any sport the one who does more win and it should be like that. I remember that interview of Plush but truth is Plush really likes Johnny and he told Johnny during the post-Olys shows in France and Spain he can be the "it" skater if he only put that quad in (Mishin told him too)
I respect Evan for going for it, but his quad is not well done and because the Tech caller do not downgrade his quad, he will never fix (his axel is going to same route) and he has to fix it, if he is going to try it, he has to do it until he gets it right and I think he believes that his quad is fine.
I know where that story come from but the one who wrote it, really made sure people knew that Plush was joking. He does like him and I think Johnny likes him as well, in his COI journal Johnny said he called Dennis and Evgeni "husband" during the tour, I don't think Johnny would have mentioned if Evgeni was not ok with it.
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- Jun 21, 2003
It is. And the victim is the sport of figure skating.
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