Plushenko intends to restart career

[silverfoxes]

Pressure comes from an amount of things, of course from the Fed, articles etc. But the way Plushenko is praised, like an untouchable god don't help either.

I'm familiar enough with the Russian sports media - Plushenko is definitely not treated like an untouchable god. Not even close. Maybe there was an era where that was true, but it's long gone.

 

[LRK]

I'm familiar enough with the Russian sports media - Plushenko is definitely not treated like an untouchable god. Not even close. Maybe there was an era where that was true, but it's long gone.

That's true. Untouchable gods aren't called cheats, liars, cowards and traitors to their country.

 

[skatedreamer]

So, if Mao returns, the other Japanese ladies will just fall apart? I don't think so, but if you're consistent - shouldn't you?

I don't think it's necessary to be consistent in this case. Generalizing is tough when it comes to concepts like pressure.

IMO, it's fair to say that putting Plushy on a pedestal does create some pressure for the Russian skaters. And it's also probably true that the adulation Mao receives in Japan puts a certain amount of pressure on Japanese skaters. However, this kind of praise or fame is only one part of the burden that all elite skaters (Russian/Japanese/any other nationality) probably feel because stress comes from so many different sources. For example, Canadian singles skaters are still waiting for that elusive OGM -- that particular pressure is unique to Canada and doesn't really exist in Russia.

Make sense?

 

[plushyfan]

OMG! The haters remained haters. And the figure skater fans are figure skater fans. I would like to ask, the succesfull "old" athletes need to retire? In every sport? Nadal, ski jumpers, golf players, soccer players? And what about Michael Jordan? He did a succesful comeback... Smirnov and Kavaguti want to compete. They can do it? Plushenko is prohibited? But maybe you noticed we have never seen so many "old" skaters than now...and in last Olympics. Maybe Plushenko has changed the customs?

I just wanted to say, calm down and wait. We will see what he can do. I don't know why he wants to compete I also don't understand. But when he decided he knew, this will happen in many Fs forums and in the Fs world. Some people will hate him and some people will support him forever. He is strong and he knows he has many fans he will recive support from them. I think if the younger Russian skaters can beat him they have chance against the top skaters. If they can't beat him...well.....
I agree with LRK, he has more chance to a good preparation than was in 2013. His operation was in February 2013. He just walking in March. He stepped to the ice in May. He landed in first single jumps in June. He landed in the first 3A in July, and landed in first quad in August. And the people criticized him becaue he didn't compete on GP series.... And he lost one competition he had a bad skate at Nationals...

In January he was in Japan at Kanagawa Figure Skating Festival.
"The statistic on Kanagawa Fest :
Zhenya's jumps in Kanagawa Festival:
23.01. - 3A, 3T-3T. Finale Unknown
24.01. 1st show - 3A, 4T, 3Lo, 3A. Finale 3A
24.01. 2nd show - 3A, 2A, 3T, 3A. Finale 2A
25.01. - 2A, 3A, 3T. Finale 3A"

And this was 3 months ago. In last weekend he played in a soccer cup. https://vk.com/photo-91844875_363277804 and https://vk.com/cupnf?w=wall-91844875_6

He played continously, he wasn't replaced. So probably his stamina is Ok. Despite the fact he had no training every day. He decided thus he will do everything for his goals. He is smart, Mishin is smart, they know what they need to do. Mishin and Plushenko will work without media hype, and because the Mishin Summer Camp will be held in Turkey not in Italy, where his fans visited every year, we won't know too much about his status. He will have many shows in Japan and China in this summer( cca 40-50)maybe we will see his new programs. One of his programs will be flamenco.
I won't say he will win against Hanyu, Javi etc. and he also didn't say. But if he can win a medal, that will be a great result.
I agree with Meoima, I'm worred about his health, this is the reason why I don't like his comeback.
Voronov :

"Near Plushenko, you alone becomes stronger"

"Q: Evgeni Plushenko announced that he started traning. How do you feel about it?
A: It's great. When you are next to an extraordinary person, and Plushenko is an extraordinary person, it's not just a compliment, you start to feel different. It's another atmosphere, another energy, another attitude. Strong competitors make you stronger. The most important thing is health. If there is health, there is desire. What Plushenko is capable of, it is for him to decide." ( translating by quiqe on FSU)

this today pic https://instagram.com/p/13TzcAmy43/?taken-by=plushenkoofficial With my faithful genius coach. 21 years we are together! 21 years we are power!

 

[LRK]

I don't think it's necessary to be consistent in this case. Generalizing is tough when it comes to concepts like pressure.

IMO, it's fair to say that putting Plushy on a pedestal does create some pressure for the Russian skaters. And it's also probably true that the adulation Mao receives in Japan puts a certain amount of pressure on Japanese skaters. However, this kind of praise or fame is only one part of the burden that all elite skaters (Russian/Japanese/any other nationality) probably feel because stress comes from so many different sources. For example, Canadian singles skaters are still waiting for that elusive OGM -- that particular pressure is unique to Canada and doesn't really exist in Russia.

Make sense?

No, not really. I think the principle is the same - if we assume that Plushy is indeed put on a pedestal (but see my post above yours: cheat, liar, coward, traitor to his country - that's one funny pedestal!)

So, why should this pressure be (supposedly) unbearable for Russian men - but Japanese ladies can cope? Or let us by all means talk about Canadian men - Patrick is pretty much considered untouchable, is he not? Should/do the other Canadian men then just give up? Whether this is so or not, presonally, I feel it is for those skaters to show what they can do - it isn't Plushy's, Mao's, or Patrick's concern - and should not feature in their future plans or decisions.

But, of course, consistency is not needful - you'll pardon me if I say that that is rather... convenient.

And that is if the mere mention of Plushy makes Russian men quake in their skating boots, and turn them all into nervous wrecks... which I don't believe. And, frankly, I just can't see either Plushy or Yags being intimidated had Kulik stuck around, for instance. Do you? But of course, I'm sure that would be different. My, is Plushy scary that his case must be different from everyone else's... No, I'm sorry, but it does not make sense to me. Yes, every country has different aspects, and different pressures - but those aren't the ones we are dsicussing. We are discussing the specific pressure of having a former star skater return, which (supposedly) would put undue pressure on "current" skaters.

 

[skatedreamer]

^^

I still think it depends on the individual skater, regardless of the type of pressure -- but am happy to agree to disagree.

Let me try one more hypothetical: suppose Michelle Kwan decided to try to compete again. Assuming she made it to US Nats, my guess is that although her presence could certainly create some stress for many skaters, they would all handle it in very different ways. Ashley might let it fuel her competitiveness and be inspired to skate lights out. OTOH, Gracie might be totally intimidated. (This is all pure speculation, of course.)

To be honest, I don't follow Russian skating closely and hadn't realized there was so much anti-Plushy feeling out there. To me, it seems crazy for him to attempt a comeback but only he knows his body's limits. I just hope he doesn't push himself to the extent of undermining his long-term health.

 

[plushyfan]

Plus Yuna after winning her Gold medal in Vancouver still competed in a couple Worlds when she could have avoided them but Plushenko seems to like to pick and choose where he's going to compete which is mostly not against the top skaters.

When?
In 2012 after ECH: One week later he had surgery on his knee.
In 2013 after ECh : One week later he had surgery in his spine.

 

[plushyfan]

^^

I still think it depends on the individual skater, regardless of the type of pressure -- but am happy to agree to disagree.

Let me try one more hypothetical: suppose Michelle Kwan decided to try to compete again. Assuming she made it to US Nats, my guess is that although her presence could certainly create some stress for many skaters, they would all handle it in very different ways. Ashley might let it fuel her competitiveness and be inspired to skate lights out. OTOH, Gracie might be totally intimidated. (This is all pure speculation, of course.)

To be honest, I don't follow Russian skating closely and hadn't realized there was so much anti-Plushy feeling out there. To me, it seems crazy for him to attempt a comeback but only he knows his body's limits. I just hope he doesn't push himself to the extent of undermining his long-term health.

The media did a campaigne against him after his withdrawal. An ultranational politician Zhirinovsky also attacked him. Plus Yagudin also attacked him in many forums, in Tv shows, in interviews. He said he wanted to the team medal only, he had no injury, he wanted to promote his show tour with it. (He was disgusting in my opinion.) Many people believed them. They think Plushenko was affraid of the younger skaters, they sold the gold to the Japanese guy, etc. But he remains the most popular athlete in Russia.

 

[volk]

His return will likely motivate other Russian skaters. Should be interesting. We'll see.

 

[xibsuarz]

The media did a campaigne against him after his withdrawal. An ultranational politician Zhirinovsky also attacked him. Plus Yagudin also attacked him in many forums, in Tv shows, in interviews. He said he wanted to the team medal only, he had no injury, he wanted to promote his show tour with it. (He was disgusting in my opinion.) Many people believed them. They think Plushenko was affraid of the younger skaters, they sold the gold to the Japanese guy, etc. But he remains the most popular athlete in Russia.

Wow, they said all that? I get it that they were upset but saying that he only wanted to compete to merely promote his show and being afraid of younger skaters :no:...if that were the case he wouldn't have wanted to make a comeback in the first place.

 

[plushyfan]

Wow, they said all that? I get it that they were upset but saying that he only wanted to compete to merely promote his show and being afraid of younger skaters :no:...if that were the case he wouldn't have wanted to make a comeback in the first place.

Yes, plus these:

- he was scared to lose
- or that he just wanted to ruin Kovtuns chance for gold
- he had no surgery
- he did the scar with a plastic surgeon on his back
-he wanted to compete because of the money.. I hardly believe they don't know that if he doesn't compete he earns much more money.. He earned millions of dollars every years.( by Russian Forbes)

 

[xibsuarz]

Yes, plus these:

- he was scared to lose
- or that he just wanted to ruin Kovtuns chance for gold
- he had no surgery
- he did the scar with a plastic surgeon on his back
-he wanted to compete because of the money.. I hardly believe they don't know that he doesn't compete he earns much more money.. He earned millions of dollars every years.( by Russian Forbes)

I don't even know what to say about things like this. :scowl: The main issue I had was his health and the possibility of it deteriorating any further, but now I'm kind of wishing he shows them he can podium.

 

[solani]

^^

I still think it depends on the individual skater, regardless of the type of pressure -- but am happy to agree to disagree.

Let me try one more hypothetical: suppose Michelle Kwan decided to try to compete again. Assuming she made it to US Nats, my guess is that although her presence could certainly create some stress for many skaters, they would all handle it in very different ways. Ashley might let it fuel her competitiveness and be inspired to skate lights out. OTOH, Gracie might be totally intimidated. (This is all pure speculation, of course.)

To be honest, I don't follow Russian skating closely and hadn't realized there was so much anti-Plushy feeling out there. To me, it seems crazy for him to attempt a comeback but only he knows his body's limits. I just hope he doesn't push himself to the extent of undermining his long-term health.

I agree, Gracie doesn't seem to be able to cope with Ashley, so Michelle would probably totally freak her out. I wouldn't want to see that. But then ... I like Ashley's personality, but Michelle and Evgeni seem to be nicer overall, so they aren't that intimidating. Maybe Gracie could handle Michelle better then Ashley.
If anything, Plushenko can show the younger russian skaters how it's done. I really think that he's in good overal shape now, he wouldn't try a comeback if he wasn't. If he can continue to live his dream, I'll be right there to watch him. I only wish for two brand new great programs. I don't want to see a best of again.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Why the heck would he do that? He's allergic to more medals? "I just came second in the Team SP (beating Patrick Chan) and first in the Team LP, so now I skip off home?" Even competing and coming in tenth would've drawn less criticism than not competing. (Though I guess he just can't escape criticism no matter what he does...) If he could skate, I can think of no logical reason why he wouldn't have.

Btw, you can't say he would've gotten team gold if he bombed both segments. Simply because that creates a psychological toll on his teammates, and we would have no idea how they'd skate in that scenario. And anyway, why are you worrying about hypothetical scenarios where he bombed (when he didn't)?

I don't think he's allergic to more medals. I just think he's the type to only compete when he knows he has a shot at winning (which is understandable). I mean, it's fairly obvious that he was averse to competing in the men's individual event. In retrospect, maybe if he knew all the men were going to bomb and he had a legitimate chance at bronze if he replicated his team event performances he would have been more inclined. Or maybe he had no intention to compete in the individual event at all knowing that Hanyu and Chan (and possibly Machida/Fernandez/etc.) could all beat him. However, I'm sure he said "If I'm healthy I'll compete in both events" to stamp his ticket, and once he had his team gold (to go with his individual one)... well, what is they say to do while you're ahead?

As far as beating Chan in the team SP (which was definitely deserved), he barely beat Chan after a clean skate and Chan making two major errors. Not to mention the judges weren't exactly giving him huge PCS scores for home ice (I honestly thought he'd score 95 for his team SP with the Sochi bonuses). So clearly he must have realised at that point that even a slightly-on Chan/Hanyu was going to easily beat him -- I mean, even with Chan/Hanyu having bad freeskates they still ended up with 175 and 180 points compared to Plushenko's personal best from EC2012 of 161.

It seems that every time he isn't a de facto favourite or has a poor SP and would need to fight just to make the podium (let alone win) he withdraws. Which is why I seriously question his intention to go for 2018, because his motivation is probably to pick up another team medal and WD for the individual, lest he end his career off the podium.

If he had competed and come in 10th, I would have had more respect for him. He cited injury - okay, sure - but it's a slap in the face to Voronov/Kovtun who would have hell or high water competed in the individual event and also would have easily gotten a medal in the team event. And don't give me that, "How could he have known if he'd be injured between the team event and individual event?" It's drama and certainly calculations on the part of him and his team, and I didn't (and still don't) buy into it one bit. Like I said, his yearning to do the team event and leave the individual event to another Russian ("giving them the opportunity" ) was very telling.

As far as psychological toll, I don't think Plushenko bombing would have changed the fact that V/T and S/K would likely win their events (maybe 2nd at worst for S/K). While perhaps it could have affected Julia's nerves going into the SP, a bad FS on his part wouldn't have caused Julia to falter (at the very worst, she would have been behind Gold and ahead of Marchei), and B/S and I/K weren't going to finish any worse or better than 3rd in ice dance. The team was slated to win gold from the get-go... in everything from Julia somehow beating Carolina in the SP when her flutz wasn't called to Plushenko somehow beating a sensational Reynolds in the FS (and arguably should have lost to Machida too). His results however DID set the tone for the Russian domination, but I think they would have pulled it off regardless given how weak Canada was in ladies, given V/M weren't going to beat D/W to make up ground on Russia, and given the obvious edge Russia had in pairs over everyone.

I wouldn't be surprised if the ISU cancelled the 2018 team event and Plushenko announced his retirement the very next day.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

And again, my main point is that if he does gun for 2018, I hope he does it by earning it, with strong competitions and well-designed programs like Euros 2012. I think the worst part of the 2014 season is that because he didn't compete much going into the Olympics his programs were just thrown together, and his modus operandi was skate clean and they'll give you 45/90 PCS regardless of how bad your program is. If he does come back, I'd like to see him more prepared with an evolved level of skating than what we're used to seeing from him (and after Euros 2012 I know he has that in him).

 

[Jammers]

I agree, Gracie doesn't seem to be able to cope with Ashley, so Michelle would probably totally freak her out. I wouldn't want to see that. But then ... I like Ashley's personality, but Michelle and Evgeni seem to be nicer overall, so they aren't that intimidating. Maybe Gracie could handle Michelle better then Ashley.
If anything, Plushenko can show the younger russian skaters how it's done. I really think that he's in good overal shape now, he wouldn't try a comeback if he wasn't. If he can continue to live his dream, I'll be right there to watch him. I only wish for two brand new great programs. I don't want to see a best of again.

Gracie has beaten Ashley twice at the end of this season so no i don't think Gracie fears her at all.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Gracie has beaten Ashley twice at the end of this season so no i don't think Gracie fears her at all.

I don't think Gracie "fears" anyone. Really, she's her own worst competition... she has the technical goods and high enough PCS to easily make the podium. It's just silly errors that prevents that from happening. The WTT SP was a huge step for her.

 

[karne]

I don't think he's allergic to more medals. I just think he's the type to only compete when he knows he has a shot at winning (which is understandable). I mean, it's fairly obvious that he was averse to competing in the men's individual event. In retrospect, maybe if he knew all the men were going to bomb and he had a legitimate chance at bronze if he replicated his team event performances he would have been more inclined.

Yes, and we all know you would have rather seen Plushenko howling in agony and potentially paralysed on the Olympic ice than doing the sensible thing and withdrawing.

You've made it quite clear you're one of those people who think he was faking. It's pretty bloody obvious that he wasn't.

 

[LRK]

^^

I still think it depends on the individual skater, regardless of the type of pressure -- but am happy to agree to disagree.

Let me try one more hypothetical: suppose Michelle Kwan decided to try to compete again. Assuming she made it to US Nats, my guess is that although her presence could certainly create some stress for many skaters, they would all handle it in very different ways. Ashley might let it fuel her competitiveness and be inspired to skate lights out. OTOH, Gracie might be totally intimidated. (This is all pure speculation, of course.)

To be honest, I don't follow Russian skating closely and hadn't realized there was so much anti-Plushy feeling out there. To me, it seems crazy for him to attempt a comeback but only he knows his body's limits. I just hope he doesn't push himself to the extent of undermining his long-term health.

That individual skaters would react differently to the same situation, is something with which I can wholeheartedly agree. :thumbsup: Thank you for clarifying.

In fact, it is the very notion that "the Russian men", en masse, are going to have nervous breakdowns because of Plushy's return that I just think is.... bizarre.

 

[plushyfan]

CSG! Plushenko's personal best at 2012 ECH 176.52!! with one quad, no combo. I hardly believe you don't know this. He received a standing ovation, only that evening was full-packed the arena. Everybody knew just because of Plushenko. Plus he received 167,... in Turin and in Vancouver really hardly believe you don't know this.

And yes, probably the Russian team would have won the team gold, but afterwards it easy to be clever. Even Trankovs thanked him the help, he told, they were incredible nervous before the team competition they watched the men SP on TV. But when they saw Plushy great skating, his well-known movements, his presence calmed them. Can you imagine if Kovtun had skated poorly and the Russians would have been on last place?

Tatiana Volosozhar's words some days ago:

"Olympic champion Tatiana Volosozhar serving paired with Trankovym, stressed that Plushenko was the leader of the Russian national team at the Olympics in Sochi. "Eugene - a living legend. The way he played in the team tournament at the Olympics, team spirit ... He was the leader and leads us to win," - said Volosozhar."