Sasha, Michelle, Irina

[Fossi]

If these ladies return to competitive skating, can they compete with Mao and Yu Na?

Mao has already defeated both Cohen and Slutskaya-and that was before improved as much as she has!!! She hasn't competed against Kwan. Yu Na is kicking butt and taking names.

Is a realistic comeback in the future for these ladies?

 

[krenseby]

If these ladies return to competitive skating, can they compete with Mao and Yu Na?

Mao has already defeated both Cohen and Slutskaya-and that was before improved as much as she has!!! She hasn't competed against Kwan. Yu Na is kicking butt and taking names.

Is a realistic comeback in the future for these ladies?

Well, let's put aside for a moment the fact that Michelle has had a serious injury that may or may not make future training difficult, the fact that Irina's illness may impede her own efforts to undertake intensive training.

All that aside, I think all of these three ladies could reasonably get a bronze medal at Worlds. They would all be behind Mao and Yuna, but also ahead of Kimmie. In the rare event that Mao or Yuna crashes, they could contend for silver.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

I think all of these three ladies could reasonably get a bronze medal at Worlds. They would all be behind Mao and Yuna, but also ahead of Kimmie. In the rare event that Mao or Yuna crashes, they could contend for silver.

Not if they add up the points.

IMO, those three have left their best competitive skating behind them. The new era has begun and CoP is in full swing.. I know how much fans of these skaters do not want to see them leave competitive skating but are you just thinking about yourselves or the skaters? Who's to say that any of these three actually want to coninue with Ladies doing 3As as competitors and scoring high in the PCS, too.

IMO, they would have to not only be held up, but present day skaters would have to be held down. What kind of win is that?

Joe

 

[attyfan]

Well, Irina and Sasha have both done very well in the past under CoP, so I don't see how the fact that "CoP is in full swing" has any bearing on the chances those two (at least) might have.

Also, I don't believe that the "Grand old Girls" would need to be held up. Like krenseby, I think they could contend for the bronze -- or better, depending on Mao and Yu-Na.

Finally, and most important, is do they really need to be able to win Worlds to have a successful comeback? Michelle, for example, could set a new record by winning another Nat gold; two more world medals (any color) and she ties Sonia's medal record; three more (any color) and she sets a new record for most world medals of any ladies skater in history.

 

[McWicked]

Wow, I dont think those ladies could do that well against Yuna, Mao, Miki, Yukari or even Kimmie, when she doesnt mess up. Sasha is lovely to see skate but, c'mon, without 3/3 in her SP or LP and with Mao and especially Yuna bein almost as good as Sasha in spins, she has no chance to be on the podium. On the other hand, Irina had the 3/3, I think she could do well in the TES, but not that well in the PCS, at least not against the leaders now.

Michelle Kwan, well, I do not wanna offend the Kween fans, but she's got even a less shot than Irina and Sasha against "the new era". And now there's Nagasu,Zhang, Flatt and Wagner to tag along.

 

[Mathman]

Well, neither Michelle nor Sasha has expressed any serious interest in tackling the comeback trail (discounting all that “one day at a time” malarkey ).

Michelle says she feels great, is doing some snowboarding, plans to go to Argentina for the State Department next year, and is even skating around a little. Sasha is barely managing a triple Salchow and a double Axel in SOI. New mom Irina is living it up as the star of the hit TV show "Skating with Celebrities."

Still, it’s fun to speculate what kind of program they could throw together. Michelle could try

3Lz+2T, 3F, 2A+3T(!), 3F+2T*, 3S*, 3Lz*, 2A* = 43.18 base points on jumps.

Compared to Yu-na Kim (GP Final layout):

3F+3T, 3Lo, 3Lz+2T, 2A+3T*, 3Lz*, 3S*, 2A* = 46.45 base points on jumps.

Kim also had 5 level 4s and 1 level 3 on non-jump elements. Michelle would probably lose a few points here for lower level spins. So Michelle is behind by, let’s say, 8 points in tech. It all comes down to GOEs and PCS.

At the GP Final Yu-na got mid-sevens across the board in PCSs. Could Michelle get mid-eights?

Yu-na = 7.50 x 8 = 60.0 total PCSs.

Michelle = 8.5 x 8 = 68.0 total PCSs.

A dead heat!

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Well, Irina and Sasha have both done very well in the past under CoP, so I don't see how the fact that "CoP is in full swing" has any bearing on the chances those two (at least) might have.

Also, I don't believe that the "Grand old Girls" would need to be held up. Like krenseby, I think they could contend for the bronze -- or better, depending on Mao and Yu-Na.

Finally, and most important, is do they really need to be able to win Worlds to have a successful comeback? Michelle, for example, could set a new record by winning another Nat gold; two more world medals (any color) and she ties Sonia's medal record; three more (any color) and she sets a new record for most world medals of any ladies skater in history.

Like I said, a fan is a fan is a fan.

By CoP in full swing I was thinking how programs have changed radically to ensure they are point worthy. two of those three divas got in on the beginning of plotting their programs but the ante has been upped much too high for them. The other was having her injury problems, and is not skating at all.

But you could be correct in allowing them to skate competitvely. Dorothy Hamil keeps going and going and going.

Joe

 

[show 42]

At the moment, I think either a fit and competition ready Michelle or Sasha could enter Nationals this coming year and win handily.........just my opinion.... 42

 

[fairly4]

i don't know.
you can't really count sasha 2003/2004 season because her highest marks were the first year where they didn't take off for mistakes.
they was basing the scores on what the program would be if skated perfect.
when they did finally take points off it wasn't much. they didn't take all the points off for her's or irina's mistakes. they only took off the minimum so they could make it up in spins etc. they didn't take off in spins for not centering etc.
michelle only did once where they nailed her for everything unlike, sasha (who had the usfsa backing-not michelle and irina had russia's).
but personnally i don't know because we honestly don't know how they would skate, would they hold up SASHA and IRINA Above MICHELLE-sure they did it all their lives. the skating community outwardly like Michelle but behind the scenes (USFSA, pros-tara, nancy, brian, scott didn't) they didn't like she upstage them or had the publics backing.

 

[Fossi]

I've heard the rumblings of Scott and not liking Michelle, but he seemed to swallow his pride around Olympics '06 and did a nice interview with her. He seemed to be sad for her. I didn't know of Nancy and Brian not liking Michelle. What's that about anyhow? Interesting!

 

[fairly4]

i honestly don't know if they didn't like her. i was going more by what i saw on tv, about them tapdancing on answers about michelle--they wasn't the only ones. most of the old pros hinted about money and the fact she was popular they didn't like. that she was too popular including the usfsa didn't like it.

 

[feraina]

Yu-na = 7.50 x 8 = 60.0 total PCSs.

Michelle = 8.5 x 8 = 68.0 total PCSs.

A dead heat!

I'd love nothing more than that, but sadly, I think Michelle's not fast enough these days. She'd be lucky to get 7's. She would (or should) lose big on skating skills and transitions, and those might drag down the other three scores too.

 

[Mathman]

i honestly don't know if they didn't like her. i was going more by what i saw on tv, about them tapdancing on answers about michelle--they wasn't the only ones. most of the old pros hinted about money and the fact she was popular they didn't like. that she was too popular including the usfsa didn't like it.

I think what the pros wanted was for Michelle to join them. They felt that she stayed too long in the amateur ranks. If Michelle had joined the pro circuit after 2002, that would have boosted interest in pro competitions and shows. Scott Hamilton would have snapped her up in a minute for SOI.

Brian Boitano is one Michelle's best friends. Michelle says some of her favorite times were hanging out in the trailor on the COI tour with Boitano and Dorothy Hamill, watching silly movies together.

Her first year on COI (age 14), she credits Nancy Kerrigan and Oksana Baiul with teaching her how to do make-up.

USFS supported and promoted Michelle with full vigor throughout her career, as did the ISU, never favoring anyone above her. And for good reason. How often does a five time World Champion come along?

As for being popular, the more popular Michelle was, the better it was for USFS. If only they had someone now who was as popular as Michelle we wouldn't have all these threads about how figure skating in the U.S. is going to the dogs.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

i honestly don't know if they didn't like her. i was going more by what i saw on tv, about them tapdancing on answers about michelle--they wasn't the only ones. most of the old pros hinted about money and the fact she was popular they didn't like. that she was too popular including the usfsa didn't like it.

I know of one and I have heard of other photographers that don't like Michelle because she would not especially pose for them. Apparently, the Disney contract would not allow any unauthorized pics of Michelle.

However, Tara and Sasha would jump at the chance and pose for the photographers. The photographers liked her.

Joe

 

[demarinis5]

I think what the pros wanted was for Michelle to join them. They felt that she stayed too long in the amateur ranks. If Michelle had joined the pro circuit after 2002, that would have boosted interest in pro competitions and shows. Scott Hamilton would have snapped her up in a minute for SOI.

Brian Boitano is one Michelle's best friends. She says some of her favorite times were hanging out in the trailor on the COI tour with Boitano and Dorothy Hamill, watching silly movies together.

Her first year on COI (age 14), she credits Nancy Kerrigan and Oksana Baiul with teaching her how to do make-up.

USFS supported and promoted Michelle with full vigor throughout her career, as did the ISU, never favoring anyone above her. And for good reason. How often does a five time World Champion come along?

As for being popular, the more popular Michelle was, the better it was for USFS. If only they had someone now who was as popular as Michelle we wouldn't have all these threads about how figure skating in the U.S. is going to the dogs.

Thank you. Your post is the correct version.

 

[oleada]

I agree with Mathman's last post.

However, if they came back (which, lets face it, they're not going to), I think that Michelle, Irina and Sasha would be CREAMED by Mao and Yu-Na and the like.

I think Irina would fare the best in the technical department, since she's landed the difficult combinations many times in the past, and in her later years, her programs were very COP friendly. She had good spins and footwork. However, as enthusiastic and bubbly as she is on the ice, her presentation is not as good as Mao and Yu-Na's, who are extremely polished. Mao beat her back then, and she's a lot better now. She never competed against Kim, but Kim and Mao are head to head at the moment.

Michelle never landed anything beyond a triple toe-triple toe, and that's not competitive enough for the top these days (especially when she kept doing a triple toe as her solo jump in the SP!). Her spins were not fast enough, and I don't think she could achieve the highest levels, based on what she's done in the past. Her programs had hardly any transitions at all, so this would bring down her PCS. Michelle has good skating skills, but Mao's are just as good, if not better. Kim has amazing speed. Michelle can wow a crowd (though I'm not a fan) but so can Mao and Yu-Na (see Kim in the WC'07 SP and COR LP; Mao's LP at Worlds and GPF). Miki can do it too, when she's on - see Skate America last year. And all three have better jumps than Kwan.

Sasha would probably do very well in the non-jump elements, but again - the triple-triple in the SP is pretty much a requirement now if you want to be on top. And she never quite managed one of those, or a clean long program when it counted. Then there's the flagrant flutz, so add an edge deduction there too. She also never was particularly hard working, which by all accounts - Mao, Kimmie, Yu-Na and Miki (Miki has motivation problems, but this is the girl who managed to fix her lip in one summer) are. She, too, had great presentation - but so do Mao and Yu-Na and the young US up and comers. I love her, and she's one of my all time favorites, but her best days are over.

 

[demarinis5]

I don' t really know how the past ladies would do since they are not currently competiting. Many people have crowned Yuna the new Queen and Mao and Miki her ladies in waiting, enough said

 

[McWicked]

Yay, Yuna Queen!!!!!!

http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q64/Wicked_Guy21/yunaqueenlq1.jpg

 

[Mathman]

I'd love nothing more than that, but sadly, I think Michelle's not fast enough these days. She'd be lucky to get 7's.

That was the old Michelle.

The new Michelle, when she comes back for the 2010 Olympics, will be twice as fast.

I also heard a rumor over on the MK Forum that she is working on a 3A/4T/3Lo combo ( = 21.5 base points + 10% second half bonus + 3 GOE = 26.5 ).

 

[Tinymavy15]

On the other hand, Irina had the 3/3, I think she could do well in the TES, but not that well in the PCS, at least not against the leaders now.

Irina had a 3/3. she didn't do one at the 2006 olympics and i have no reason to belive that she could do one now.