Skate Canada 2024 Next Gen Competition and Camp | July 26-28

[yyzskater]

Skate Canada finally being smart about requiring skaters to do another comp besides next gen to be considered for spots. The upcoming Montreal and Waterloo entry lists are nice and full of next gen skaters.

 

[yyzskater]

As per Mariposa's Instagram post, Skate Canada has obviously assigned jgp spots at the nextgen camp. Martins/Kowolcyk have been assigned JGP Thailand

 

[lariko]

what do you mean by that ? (Also the spelling would be québécois. ) Usually, the judging panel is very divided among all provinces, so I am not sure about such statements.

I mean egregious preference of gliding to everything else. I mean, it's obvious that Paradis and Bondar' were doing a different tier than everyone else this competition, but to put Paradis ahead by this many points when he barely even sketches jumping passes is... a Quebec thing. Sure the skater can glide and have an artistic vision, but the jumping ability is completely absent even by junior standards, even for JGP. Paradis is a dancer, not man singles. What's the point of propping him...

At least in women they acknowledged the value of jumping this time.

 

[figureskatingandrainbows]

I mean egregious preference of gliding to everything else. I mean, it's obvious that Paradis and Bondar' were doing a different tier than everyone else this competition, but to put Paradis ahead by this many points when he barely even sketches jumping passes is... a Quebec thing. Sure the skater can glide and have an artistic vision, but the jumping ability is completely absent even by junior standards, even for JGP. Paradis is a dancer, not man singles. What's the point of propping him...

At least in women they acknowledged the value of jumping this time.

Anthony's jumps are a lot better this year than they were last year. His SP was really good especially - his 3Lz+3T was quite solid and he attempted two 3Lzs, a 3A, and two 3Fs in his free skate (granted, he popped two of those attempts, but still). So I wouldn't say his jumping ability is "completely absent", he may not be the strongest jumper in the junior circuit but he can do all his triples quite well and is working towards his 3A.

 

[lariko]

Anthony's jumps are a lot better this year than they were last year. His SP was really good especially - his 3Lz+3T was quite solid and he attempted two 3Lzs, a 3A, and two 3Fs in his free skate (granted, he popped two of those attempts, but still). So I wouldn't say his jumping ability is "completely absent", he may not be the strongest jumper in the junior circuit but he can do all his triples quite well and is working towards his 3A.

He popped 2/3 axels in the free and his triples don't look big/explosive/cool. He is nowhere near JGP level of jumping. He's born in 2007, so by this stage, a solid 3A and working on a quad is something that's normal.

 

[RatedPG]

Anthony's jumps are a lot better this year than they were last year. His SP was really good especially - his 3Lz+3T was quite solid and he attempted two 3Lzs, a 3A, and two 3Fs in his free skate (granted, he popped two of those attempts, but still). So I wouldn't say his jumping ability is "completely absent", he may not be the strongest jumper in the junior circuit but he can do all his triples quite well and is working towards his 3A.

Also, let’s not forget Jason Brown is #5 in the World for two straight seasons with technical content Anthony is aiming to replicate. All Anthony has to do, is learn the 3A. I see Anthony as the next Jason Brown. He is still quite young and has time to develop. Would like to know how good Jason was at this age.

Also, I think he popped a 2A. In his winning interview, Anthony mentioned wanting to learn the triple axel and hoping to implement this jump, later on this season. So, the fact he wants to introduce this new element later on this season, means he popped his 2A at this competition.

In my opinion, though, David Bodnar should have won. But, both will get one/two JGP events after his showing as they were much better than the rest of the field.

 

[lariko]

Also, let’s not forget Jason Brown is #5 in the World for two straight seasons with technical content Anthony is aiming to replicate. All Anthony has to do, is learn the 3A. I see Anthony as the next Jason Brown. He is still quite young and has time to develop. Would like to know how good Jason was at this age.

Also, I think he popped a 2A. In his winning interview, Anthony mentioned wanting to learn the triple axel and hoping to implement this jump, later on this season. So, the fact he wants to introduce this new element later on this season, means he popped his 2A at this competition.

In my opinion, though, David Bodnar should have won. But, both will get one/two JGP events after his showing as they were much better than the rest of the field.

Brown was born in 1994. So his 17-to-18 yo season is 2011-2012:

Brown began his season with a win at his first Junior Grand Prix event in Brisbane, Australia.[23][24] He then took silver in Milan, Italy, to qualify for the final. In a December 2011 interview, Brown said that he needed the triple Axel to be competitive on the senior level and continued to work on it.[8] He occasionally used Dartfish, a computer imaging system, and a harness.[25] At the Junior Grand Prix Final, Brown was second in both segments and won the gold medal overall.[26] Brown was assigned to the 2012 World Junior Championships and won the bronze medal.

In 2012 JWC, Brown scored:

Jason Brown

United States

214.90​

​

​

4​

70.20​

3​

144.70​

Skating Scores: Latest Figure Skating Results, Scores, Rankings & Statistics

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skatingscores.com

Skating Scores: Latest Figure Skating Results, Scores, Rankings & Statistics

The best resource for Figure Skating scores and stats on the web.

www.skatingscores.com

He was not jumping 3A at the time, but he did next season, in 2012-2013, staying in Juniors. I dunno if Brown routinely popped 2A at the time.

 

[saine]

With David Bondar, it didn't help that he performed his short right after Anthony. It really highlighted the difference in presentation, plus Anthony is the reigning senior National bronze medalist. This free skate from David was a major step up from all his free skates last season. The judges may have been cautious based on how he skated last season. If he can keep building on this, then his domestic scores will go up.

He won the free skate, which is fair. I hope he does get two JGP events based on his performance here, he's put in work to improve his performance and it should be rewarded.

 

[RatedPG]

Brown was born in 1994. So his 17-to-18 yo season is 2011-2012:

Brown began his season with a win at his first Junior Grand Prix event in Brisbane, Australia.[23][24] He then took silver in Milan, Italy, to qualify for the final. In a December 2011 interview, Brown said that he needed the triple Axel to be competitive on the senior level and continued to work on it.[8] He occasionally used Dartfish, a computer imaging system, and a harness.[25] At the Junior Grand Prix Final, Brown was second in both segments and won the gold medal overall.[26] Brown was assigned to the 2012 World Junior Championships and won the bronze medal.

In 2012 JWC, Brown scored:

Jason Brown

United States

214.90​

​

​

4​

70.20​

3​

144.70​

Skating Scores: Latest Figure Skating Results, Scores, Rankings & Statistics

The best resource for Figure Skating scores and stats on the web.

skatingscores.com

Skating Scores: Latest Figure Skating Results, Scores, Rankings & Statistics

The best resource for Figure Skating scores and stats on the web.

www.skatingscores.com

He was not jumping 3A at the time, but he did next season, in 2012-2013, staying in Juniors. I dunno if Brown routinely popped 2A at the time.

Perfect analysis.
Got it. Sounds like Anthony needs to work on his triples consistency. He is a bit behind where Jason was, at same age due to his inconsistency with jumps. If he landed all non-3A triples, he would score similarly.
Hopefully, he works hard this season.

 

[lariko]

In addition, last season all 6 junior men who advanced to JPF had 3A with 3 of them having a quad, and they were born:

R. Nakata, 2008
H. Kim, 2006
A. Hagara, 2006
J. Lim, 2005
F. Pitot, 2005
D. Martynov, 2006

In other words, Lim and Pitot are one year older, while 3 are the same age as Paradis is this season and Nakata is 1 year younger. I am pretty sure that Pitot had 3A a year before that as well.

This is basically without the Russians playing spoiler for advancement into JGPF and potentially dangerous extremes of training and body build a-la Fedotov and Lazarev, save for Martynov who represents the earlier ultra-c training school.

 

[lariko]

With David Bondar, it didn't help that he performed his short right after Anthony. It really highlighted the difference in presentation, plus Anthony is the reigning senior National bronze medalist. This free skate from David was a major step up from all his free skates last season. The judges may have been cautious based on how he skated last season. If he can keep building on this, then his domestic scores will go up.

He won the free skate, which is fair. I hope he does get two JGP events based on his performance here, he's put in work to improve his performance and it should be rewarded.

It wasn't his free skate that was the problem, it was the SP where he was stonewalled for both GoE and PCSs so much that his essentially clean skate ended up in 5th. Paradis got zero on one of seven elements in that SP (a spin), but his GoEs on every other element were disproportionately high, even on jumping passes where with all the love for his artistry (and don't get me wrong, I buy what Paradis's teen drama far more than Brown's saccharine syrup), not presenting jumps worth 3 and 4 GoE, where Bondar gets 0. Malinin (Malinin!) worked 2 years to get these kind of GoE on his jumps in seniors. That's insane and far too Quebecois even for Quebec. They act like they had never seen a guy who can dance before.

 

[saine]

It wasn't his free skate that was the problem, it was the SP where he was stonewalled for both GoE and PCSs so much that his essentially clean skate ended up in 5th. Paradis got zero on one of seven elements in that SP (a spin), but his GoEs on every other element were disproportionately high, even on jumping passes where with all the love for his artistry (and don't get me wrong, I buy what Paradis's teen drama far more than Brown's saccharine syrup), not presenting jumps worth 3 and 4 GoE, where Bondar gets 0. Malinin (Malinin!) worked 2 years to get these kind of GoE on his jumps in seniors. That's insane and far too Quebecois even for Quebec. They act like they had never seen a guy who can dance before.

Bondar wasn't clean in the short. He got an edge call on his flip and a V on one spin along with an invalid spin. I looked at the protocol since I was surprised at his score there, so that's where he lost points.

 

[4everchan]

I mean egregious preference of gliding to everything else. I mean, it's obvious that Paradis and Bondar' were doing a different tier than everyone else this competition, but to put Paradis ahead by this many points when he barely even sketches jumping passes is... a Quebec thing. Sure the skater can glide and have an artistic vision, but the jumping ability is completely absent even by junior standards, even for JGP. Paradis is a dancer, not man singles. What's the point of propping him...

At least in women they acknowledged the value of jumping this time.

but why do you say it's a Quebec thing? It is a pretty Canadian thing overall to look for and reward good skating skills. Very few Canadian clubs do not create good skaters in that department... i can think of only one in BC

 

[4everchan]

In addition, last season all 6 junior men who advanced to JPF had 3A with 3 of them having a quad, and they were born:

R. Nakata, 2008
H. Kim, 2006
A. Hagara, 2006
J. Lim, 2005
F. Pitot, 2005
D. Martynov, 2006

In other words, Lim and Pitot are one year older, while 3 are the same age as Paradis is this season and Nakata is 1 year younger. I am pretty sure that Pitot had 3A a year before that as well.

This is basically without the Russians playing spoiler for advancement into JGPF and potentially dangerous extremes of training and body build a-la Fedotov and Lazarev, save for Martynov who represents the earlier ultra-c training school.

is this necessary? I agree Anthony needs to improve his jumps but when he won junior nationals 3 years ago,he was more stable. He had a pretty bad injury and he is still catching up on the jumps but he has already improved steadily. What is good is that he is not resting on his PCS laurels. He is trying the 3A. It will take a while, just like it has for our other Canadian juniors. But he is committed. In the meantime, what he is doing in spins, steps and choreo is unmatched for someone his age... Even some seniors are nowhere close to that level. The reality : if he doesn't get a 3a and at least a quad, he will most likely stay home.. but there is no need to be so critical on him nor the judges at this point in time. If the other Canadian juniors want to chase him, they can out jump him and improve their skating skills. Edward was a pretty good jumper too... but of course, same deal, major injury. Not everyone can remain relatively injury free or pick up a ton of quads after hip surgery like Nathan Chen. In the meantime, why not celebrate where our boys are at ? I don't care if they are not going to win medals. Development is more important than results.

 

[4everchan]

That's insane and far too Quebecois even for Quebec. They act like they had never seen a guy who can dance before.

really ? I know you don't want to look at the history of like skating before 2018.. but there is a very long tradition of skaters who can dance in Quebec and nope, they were not rewarded without the jumps... Do you know how many Québécois men won nationals ?
ONE, if I am not mistaken... and that was because the big guns were injured that year. (he did have a 3a). You are mistaken and promoting a stereotype that doesn't exist.

 

[lariko]

Bondar wasn't clean in the short. He got an edge call on his flip and a V on one spin along with an invalid spin. I looked at the protocol since I was surprised at his score there, so that's where he lost points.

I know, but the score is too low, because nobody was mistake free, not sure why Bondar had it handed to him. I still think on the balance he should have won.

 

[lariko]

In the meantime, why not celebrate where our boys are at ? I don't care if they are not going to win medals. Development is more important than results.

I can't, because results would be nice.

 

[4everchan]

I can't, because results would be nice.

in my field, we always say : process over the results. It's the work, it's the commitment, it's the improvement, is the path that counts most. Results at all count lead to unhealthy habits. When the focus is indeed on the process, results can eventually come.

 

[lariko]

in my field, we always say : process over the results. It's the work, it's the commitment, it's the improvement, is the path that counts most. Results at all count lead to unhealthy habits. When the focus is indeed on the process, results can eventually come.

And in my work, we are result oriented. And this is specifically why I quoted the recent JGPF--> it shows that across 4 nations top junior man has 3A in his arsenal this age. They can't be all unhealthy. I want Canadians to regain some spots.

 

[4everchan]

And in my work, we are result oriented. And this is specifically why I quoted the recent JGPF--> it shows that across 4 nations top junior man has 3A in his arsenal this age. They can't be all unhealthy. I want Canadians to regain some spots.

Fair enough though I doubt your field has a large subjective component for results evaluation. We are also talking about teenagers here. I don't like the pressure put on athletes by some fans but that's just me. YMMV