The Tutberidze Effect

[nussnacker]

Apparently, in the coming years, Tutberidze-team will have to compete with the newly built Plushenko-Rudkovskaya brand. A brand whose whole history is one continuous PR. Different, not always literate, often carnivalized and with the soul of Russian showbiz, but absolutely verified. Every news feed are trying to turn into profit with Plushenko and his wife . And for successful competition Tutberidze-tim must learn to fight in this field.


This also applies to Eteri Georgievna herself: the attitude "victory on the ice is better than any PR" led her to defeat in all media clashes. If the approach continues, subsequent clashes will end in the same outcome, and this will hit Tutberidze-tim more than any failures on the ice. When it’s not about another gold medal or show, but about force majeure, Khrustalny does not behave like a champion.

Yeah, I hope that won't happen. Let that "brand" play those PR games with themselves.

 

[plushyfan]

Yeah, I hope that won't happen. Let that "brand" play those PR games with themselves.

:thumbsup: Yes. I also hope the skating will be more important between those two teams. You can be sure it will be great fight on ice! But I was happy with this article when I found it today. This shows what I'm sying:

"Every news feed are trying to turn into profit with Plushenko and his wife ." This is my experience, too . Not only the news feeds but bloggers on YT, on forums, on IG...gossips, gossips.. All of them want profit , want to make scandals, they want readers, viewers. This is what the sports.ru also does. Shame. This is the reason why I said be careful to believe everything and everyone who are bashing Plushenko.

 

[Scott512]

The thing I really want to study now is not necessarily the Tutberidze Effect, but, perhaps the Reverse Tutberidze Effect. I would like to see how skaters do while they are with Eteri versus once they leave. Do they get better, or worse? Some skaters we have seen, such as Tsurskaya and Panenkova, declined rapidly and ended their careers once they left the Tutberidze school. Others were able to make improvements with a different coach. I would put Julia and Zhenya on this list (although Julia did not have results and was dealing with injuries, I saw a MAJOR improvement in her jump technique when she was with Urmanov). So, now that Trusova and Zhilina left Eteri, what will happen to them? Which side of the Reverse Eteri effect will they fall under?

If you go by results none of them are better off without EG. If you go by how they are doing emotionally once they leave her that that's a different story. I do think there's a fear factor when the girls leave the great coach. Not that they think she would hurt them or something but they just don't want to deal with her intimidating and dominating ways. Nor do their parents.

Sasha could be different. She could have as good or better results without EG because Sasha is still on the way up in her career.

 

[Fried]

You are incorrect. I am an example of a hardcore TT fan and a class act. and there are many others in this forum. We night may not be EG pupils classy but we try.

Either you're joking or your ability to reflect on yourself goes to zero. Eteris students (and not just Eteris) do not praise themselves and do not look for mistakes in others, they try to recognize their own mistakes and work to remedy them. The local Tut-Fan-Gang does exactly the opposite. These allies glorify their idol (with which they identify themselves for reasons of self-exaltation) up to the grotesque, close their eyes to their weaknesses and, in return, belittle others (in their eyes less worthy of veneration). Not the slightest trace of self-criticism, which is the only way forward.
I said it before and I say it again because it is my firm belief. The girls in question (and much more Eteri) would be embarrassed by this kind of taking sides. Fortunately, it doesn't get to their ears. A little comfort at least.

I regret to saying this, it reflects what has happened here in the past three months.

 

[macy]

Either you're joking or your ability to reflect on yourself goes to zero. Eteris students (and not just Eteris) do not praise themselves and do not look for mistakes in others, they try to recognize their own mistakes and work to remedy them. The local Tut-Fan-Gang does exactly the opposite. These allies glorify their idol (with which they identify themselves for reasons of self-exaltation) up to the grotesque, close their eyes to their weaknesses and, in return, belittle others (in their eyes less worthy of veneration). Not the slightest trace of self-criticism, which is the only way forward.
I said it before and I say it again because it is my firm belief. The girls in question (and much more Eteri) would be embarrassed by this kind of taking sides. Fortunately, it doesn't get to their ears. A little comfort at least.

I regret to saying this, it reflects what has happened here in the past three months.

i actually see this behavior more from uber fans of specific Eteri skaters, instead of TT fans as a whole. not saying it doesn't exist, but it's much more prominent on this forum at least.

 

[Fried]

Not that they think she would hurt them or something but they just don't want to deal with her intimidating and dominating ways. Nor do their parents.

Judging by the smiley, you find it funny when coaches intimidate their underage girls to dominate them. Bravo! Are you actually aware of what you are writing?
Probably not.
If that is the Tutberidze effect, then cheers.
I think I am now at the point where I withdraw from the "discussion".
Good evening.

 

[Fried]

i actually see this behavior more from uber fans of specific Eteri skaters, instead of TT fans as a whole. not saying it doesn't exist, but it's much more prominent on this forum at least.

That may be true, but it doesn't make it any better.

 

[flanker]

i actually see this behavior more from uber fans of specific Eteri skaters, instead of TT fans as a whole. not saying it doesn't exist, but it's much more prominent on this forum at least.

The uber fans of specific former TT skaters (and fans of former world class skaters) - I don't mean you, of course - do not set the moral high ground to gain any credit to lecture anyone about how he should behave.

 

[Scott512]

Either you're joking or your ability to reflect on yourself goes to zero. Eteris students (and not just Eteris) do not praise themselves and do not look for mistakes in others, they try to recognize their own mistakes and work to remedy them. The local Tut-Fan-Gang does exactly the opposite. These allies glorify their idol (with which they identify themselves for reasons of self-exaltation) up to the grotesque, close their eyes to their weaknesses and, in return, belittle others (in their eyes less worthy of veneration). Not the slightest trace of self-criticism, which is the only way forward.
I said it before and I say it again because it is my firm belief. The girls in question (and much more Eteri) would be embarrassed by this kind of taking sides. Fortunately, it doesn't get to their ears. A little comfort at least.

I regret to saying this, it reflects what has happened here in the past three months.

Please don't take things personally. This forum is often a fun place to be. Really shouldn't matter that some of us disagree about things from time to time.

Eteris students do not praise themselves nor do the supporters of her or her students here praise themselves. A few of the posters here seem miserable a lot all the time. That's a shame. But that's life on a message board with people from all walks of life.

What we all need now is some sort of a season. But at this point that's unlikely so we're going to have to see internal competitions but that may be months off so we're all going to have to learn to put up with each other until we actually get competitions.

 

[Scott512]

And that is specific to Eteri how, exactly?

Let's start a new conversation. How will EG and other coaches for that matter keep their students sharp with no Junior Grand Prix season and probably no senior Grand preseason and no Challengers? That is the question. What is the answer? That's where I think many internal competitions for all four disciplines will help coaches continue to develop their talent.

I don't know about having events virtually and judges judging them from afar. But that is a possibility.

 

[AshWagsFan]

Let's start a new conversation. How will EG and other coaches for that matter keep their students sharp with no Junior Grand Prix season and probably no senior Grand preseason and no Challengers? That is the question. What is the answer? That's where I think many internal competitions for all four disciplines will help coaches continue to develop their talent.

I don't know about having events virtually and judges judging them from afar. But that is a possibility.

I’m not really sure. I think the Sambo-70 skaters will be just fine if they have competitions among themselves throughout the year (they’re the best in the world). I could see the American disciplines doing internal events as well (except for Ice Dance, as the top 3 teams are with Marie-France and could just have competitions with their other training mates. )

It would be an interesting pre-Olympic season if we just see national events. It would mean the door for 2022 Gold is wide open, but it would make it easier to distinguish who has a shot at the Oly team in their country in 2022.

 

[Scott512]

I’m not really sure. I think the Sambo-70 skaters will be just fine if they have competitions among themselves throughout the year (they’re the best in the world). I could see the American disciplines doing internal events as well (except for Ice Dance, as the top 3 teams are with Marie-France and could just have competitions with their other training mates. )

It would be an interesting pre-Olympic season if we just see national events. It would mean the door for 2022 Gold is wide open, but it would make it easier to distinguish who has a shot at the Oly team in their country in 2022.

It will be amazing for the Russian ladies because it would be like all their internal events will have what 16 or more skaters like a Nationals. I expect the same in America and many other countries and it will be interesting to see all of those talented skaters like Sasha and Alysa who have new coaches. Will their amazing talent be stunted because of no real traditional competitions? That' said Ash I still hope they have a Grand Prix season but it's obvious it's a very much a long shot now and there won't be any fans if they do have events.

 

[Amei]

Because her results clearly prove that she really knows how to do it.

Disagree, I don't think that she's unique in helping her athletes maximize their potential - I think her uniqueness is her ability to train her skaters to maximize the scoring system beyond the norm. Initially it was tano'ing all jumps, then it was back-load all jumps (several of her skaters did it not just Zagitova), then it was ushering in multiple quads for ladies skating.

 

[Skatesocs]

Disagree, I don't think that she's unique in helping her athletes maximize their potential - I think her uniqueness is her ability to train her skaters to maximize the scoring system beyond the norm. Initially it was tano'ing all jumps, then it was back-load all jumps (several of her skaters did it not just Zagitova), then it was ushering in multiple quads for ladies skating.

This makes much more sense. I will still disagree that she's unique in her ability to maximize CoP - I remember there were comments about Yuna Kim being "CoP queen" when she was with Orser. He *really* knew how to hit it out of the park with the CoP, and his top male students followed right after in a similar fashion. And now he's seen as a coach with great integrity for artistry, perhaps as a commentary on the state of skating as an art. Hilariously, I see sniffy accusations against Rafael Arutyunyan for doing similar for *his* students, as if he is unique.

I'll get flack within the thread, but I think Eteri's uniqueness is from taking the CoP entirely literally, almost as a gaslighting tactic against the judges, and making sure her students programs check all the bullets, with little attention to artistic and athletic worth. I don't see this as an inherent bad thing, as point of sport is to win - hence my referring to her as a female Machiavelli in the RLT at one point. But in a scheme of figure skating, it's obvious why she'd be less respected by others.

 

[Scott512]

Disagree, I don't think that she's unique in helping her athletes maximize their potential - I think her uniqueness is her ability to train her skaters to maximize the scoring system beyond the norm. Initially it was tano'ing all jumps, then it was back-load all jumps (several of her skaters did it not just Zagitova), then it was ushering in multiple quads for ladies skating.

I think we agree.

It's both maximizing her students of potential and the point scoring system. This coach has done that for years and others should have followed.

Would anyone dare to say that Yuliya Evgenia Polina Alina Sasha Anna and aliona did not maximize their potential and talents through this coach and her team? Of course they did which is why when they leave EG their results are never what they used to be. Maybe Sasha will be different. We shall see.

And it's not just EG as her head higher team. I don't want to single her out when it is her entire team is getting this done.

 

[Scott512]

What is the EG effect now? She has lost Sasha and aliona decimating her unbeatable team they swept the podium at every competition last season. Those days are over but why? Is Eteri unmovable and domineering and once these kids start to grow up they get minds of their own and not as certain to stay in line 100% of the time? Of course these girls change and EG sort of needs to change with them and become more flexible and perhaps a little less rigid. She has a 17 year old daughter she must have seen the same changes in her that she seen in Sasha and aliona and other kid she coaches. When my step daughter turned 16 I noticed changes for a couple of years. She was a little more difficult a little harder to talk to a little harder to get along with but that changed and things went back to normal but it took a while. It's probably the same with her pupils. They're only human. We all wondered how long this could last with these 5 grade girls in one group.

Eteri has lost Sasha aliona and the former boys Junior world Erokov in the past 2 months. Add those two Evgenia a little more than two years ago and that's just unbelievable I've never seen anything like this in figure skating where one coach loses so much talent in such a short. Of time. Remember Medvedeva left EG in large part because she wanted more say in her programs and music and what she did with her career and that was apparently denied. Then Zhenya left. Again EG has to take some blame. In all of this and she should never badmouth these great athletes as they leave her camp. I know she's upset and she has a right to be but she needs to bite her tongue because she's the adult and the teenagers are still children in many ways.

EG had the most dominant team in the history of ladies figure skating and now it's shattered. No matter what anyone says losing Sasha the quad queen and aliona the most beautiful and best ladies figure skater in the world are crushing blows. And as a fan of the team it is absolutely terrible. Are the promises from Team plushenko too much for EG to overcome? Is Anna ballerina next? Remember some of us thought Alina might end up with plushenko many months ago. That didn't happen but Evgeni sure made up for not getting Alina with Sasha and Aliona. I forgot he got the best novice girl ever in Veronika who already does quads and triple axels like they were nothing. Let's be honest young Sergei was the key to all of this maybe even as much as plushenko. If EG managed to keep young Sergei maybe none of these girls leave. But he left and ended up taking some friends with him over the last couple months.

I wish all the competitors and coaches well but it's going to be awkward seeing them compete against each other on different coaching teams. There will be no Grand Prix final this year but if there were it would be absolutely insane with Anna and a Alina on one side and Sasha and aliona on the other side!

 

[Amei]

that's just unbelievable I've never seen anything like this in figure skating where one coach loses so much talent in such a short. Of time.

When was the last time though that a coach has had as much talent as Eteri has had the last few years? Outside of Eteri how many other coaches in figure skating history can you think of where they had more than 2 skaters in a single discipline at 1 time that you watched and thought they had the capability of being World champion or Olympic champion?

What is the EG effect now? She has lost Sasha and aliona decimating her unbeatable team they swept the podium at every competition last season. Those days are over but why? Is Eteri unmovable and domineering and once these kids start to grow up they get minds of their own and not as certain to stay in line 100% of the time? Of course these girls change and EG sort of needs to change with them and become more flexible and perhaps a little less rigid. She has a 17 year old daughter she must have seen the same changes in her that she seen in Sasha and aliona and other kid she coaches. When my step daughter turned 16 I noticed changes for a couple of years. She was a little more difficult a little harder to talk to a little harder to get along with but that changed and things went back to normal but it took a while. It's probably the same with her pupils. They're only human. We all wondered how long this could last with these 5 grade girls in one group.

Eteri has lost Sasha aliona and the former boys Junior world Erokov in the past 2 months. Add those two Evgenia a little more than two years ago and that's just unbelievable I've never seen anything like this in figure skating where one coach loses so much talent in such a short. Of time. Remember Medvedeva left EG in large part because she wanted more say in her programs and music and what she did with her career and that was apparently denied. Then Zhenya left. Again EG has to take some blame.

I said yesterday Eteri and her team of coaches might be victims of their own success. They have coached skaters, including those that have left, to a ton of medals; the expression "if it's not broke don't fix it" comes to mind, and that has potentially been their mindset - we have proven that we know what needs to be done to win.

 

[Scott512]

When was the last time though that a coach has had as much talent as Eteri has had the last few years? Outside of Eteri how many other coaches in figure skating history can you think of where they had more than 2 skaters in a single discipline at 1 time that you watched and thought they had the capability of being World champion or Olympic champion?




I said yesterday Eteri and her team of coaches might be victims of their own success. They have coached skaters, including those that have left, to a ton of medals; the expression "if it's not broke don't fix it" comes to mind, and that has potentially been their mindset - we have proven that we know what needs to be done to win.

Amei I agree that TT coaches are victims of their own success. What a gift for this coach who has now in the last two months gotten the quad Queen Sasha and the best skater of the ladies this past season and the most beautiful skater in the world Aliona. He better not mess this up. There is massive pressure on these two girls and their new coach now.

No other coach has ever had as much talent in one discipline as one time than EG did. Two years ago she had Zhenya Alina Alena Anna Sasha and Kamila. It boggles the mind. EG made all of them. That's six absolute phenoms at one time. This will never be duplicated. Not even close. Unless Plushenko ends up with all of them.

I am both frustrated with this situation and I wish the girls well at the same time. They are not traitors in any way. We all honestly wondered how long EG to keep this incredible group together. I think most of us thought after the 2022 Beijing Olympics the bleep might hit the fan and breakups would happen. But we were two years off.

 

[Blades of Passion]

Excuse me, but shouldn't this thread be named "The Tutberidze Defect"?

 

[Ophelia]

^Dead.

Yes. A rename is in order.