Women's Artistic Gymnastics | Page 20 | Golden Skate

Women's Artistic Gymnastics

Baron Vladimir

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 18, 2014
Your complaint, of course, is with the IOC who sold the broadcast rights to NBC with these provisos.

If the IOC and Mr. Thomas Bach did not want to have the events at unusual local times, they had the capacity to set them whenever they wanted.:shrug: They chose to accept the money.

If I offer to buy something from you, and you agree to my conditions for purchase, that's not my fault that you agreed. ETA: You could always choose not to sell, or to sell to someone with different conditions. :)
I'm pretty sure it was not the IOC decision. It's the home country/organization who decide about the schedule in the end. And they lost a lot of money for not having audience in their venues in first place. Also, to organize the whole event in these conditions request a lot of streinght, so I'm not blaming Japan... But my point was that many of those requests and decisions are against athletes to begin with...
 
Last edited:

el henry

Fangirl of men’s spirals and split jumps
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 3, 2014
Country
United-States
I'm pretty sure it was not the IOC decision. It's the home country/organization who decide about the schedule in the end.
Interesting, I did not know that.

In any event, it is either the IOC or the Japanese organizing committee that accepted the terms of purchase. That's not NBC's fault that their terms were accepted.
 

Baron Vladimir

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 18, 2014
Interesting, I did not know that.

In any event, it is either the IOC or the Japanese organizing committee that accepted the terms of purchase. That's not NBC's fault that their terms were accepted.
I agree, but again, why would someone propose the terms which are against the athletes? And why in an Olympic event any network has any right to propose any terms in first place?
E: To want to schedule a game/match for the gold preceding the match for the bronze medal is a crime to the sport, as my sport journalist friend is saying :biggrin:
 
Last edited:

el henry

Fangirl of men’s spirals and split jumps
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 3, 2014
Country
United-States
I agree, but again, why would someone propose the terms which are against the athletes? And why in an Olympic event any network has any right to propose any terms in first place?
E: To want to schedule a game/match for the gold preceding the match for the bronze medal is a crime to the sport, as my sport journalist friend is saying :biggrin:

Well, NBC is a private corporation with a duty to its shareholders to maximize profits. That is its only duty. So I am not going to impose duties on them that they do not have.

Should the IOC/Organizing Committee insist on different times, even if it means
Less money from NBC?
No money from NBC?
No money to stage the events, whatever those times may be?

That is a decision for the IOC and for the LOC. Not NBC's problem, not their issue, not their duty. 🤷‍♀️
 

Charlotte 71

On the Ice
Joined
Oct 27, 2005
SUNISA LEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
High hopes that NBC will show more than one of her routines on their "coverage" tonight. Two would be nice, and twice as many as the one routine they showed last night from Daiki Hashimoto. Oh well, they had all-important SEMI-final swim heats to get back to last night, so it was too much to expect that we'd get more than one routine from the host-country's young champion. Of course we MUST see ALL the swimming - the full race of every single stroke, every single distance, and God forbid they short-change even one semi-final swim or show a semi-final highlight reel or something in order to make time for more than a half-dozen routines in men's gymnastics. I like a good swim race as much as anyone, but last night was ridiculous. I know, let it go.
 

TontoK

Hot Tonto
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 28, 2013
Country
United-States
Well, NBC is a private corporation with a duty to its shareholders to maximize profits. That is its only duty. So I am not going to impose duties on them that they do not have.
This is fair statement. I was reminded about this when I saw a headline touting that Simone's sponsors were "standing behind her." Well... of course they are. They've got big money tied up in this, and I imagine they're trying to salvage their investment. If they thought the better payoff was in throwing her under a bus, they'd be doing that.

All of these corporations are in it for the money - they're not philanthropists. I'm fine with that, actually. Although I do get furious with NBC for such shallow appointed-hero-slanted coverage. They're giving the mindless masses what they want, and I suppose that's where the money is.
 

TontoK

Hot Tonto
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 28, 2013
Country
United-States
High hopes that NBC will show more than one of her routines on their "coverage" tonight. Two would be nice, and twice as many as the one routine they showed last night from Daiki Hashimoto. Oh well, they had all-important SEMI-final swim heats to get back to last night, so it was too much to expect that we'd get more than one routine from the host-country's young champion. Of course we MUST see ALL the swimming - the full race of every single stroke, every single distance, and God forbid they short-change even one semi-final swim or show a semi-final highlight reel or something in order to make time for more than a half-dozen routines in men's gymnastics. I like a good swim race as much as anyone, but last night was ridiculous. I know, let it go.
Let not your heart be troubled. They'll show every single routine Suni Lee does. Expect the final rotation at the end of the evening primetime coverage.

Why? The storyline is too delicious.
  • She's an American.
  • She saved the day when Simone dropped out.
  • She's from a minority ethnic group - I'll bet you my car that we hear she's the first ever Hmong Olympian. AGAIN, in case you missed it the first 10 times.
  • Her father is recovering from a tragic accident that left him paralyzed, but he's recovering, and he's her best friend and inspiration - I'll bet you my house that comes up. AGAIN, in case you missed it the first 10 times.
  • Viewing tip: look out for mentions that she's also in two event finals (stay tuned for more from our new favorite!), and a favorite on bars.
No disrespect to young Mr Hashimoto (and congrats to him!), but he's not "sellable" to American audiences. It's about the story, not the athletic achievement, and Suni Lee is a newly discovered goldmine.
 

Seven Sisters

Medalist
Joined
Jul 17, 2018
Let not your heart be troubled. They'll show every single routine Suni Lee does. Expect the final rotation at the end of the evening primetime coverage.

Why? The storyline is too delicious.
  • She's an American.
  • She saved the day when Simone dropped out.
  • She's from a minority ethnic group - I'll bet you my car that we hear she's the first ever Hmong Olympian. AGAIN, in case you missed it the first 10 times.
  • Her father is recovering from a tragic accident that left him paralyzed, but he's recovering, and he's her best friend and inspiration - I'll bet you my house that comes up. AGAIN, in case you missed it the first 10 times.
  • Viewing tip: look out for mentions that she's also in two event finals (stay tuned for more from our new favorite!), and a favorite on bars.
No disrespect to young Mr Hashimoto (and congrats to him!), but he's not "sellable" to American audiences. It's about the story, not the athletic achievement, and Suni Lee is a newly discovered goldmine.
Plus, it takes the focus off the less-comfortable parts of the Simone Biles story.
I would guess that Biles might be relieved to now be able to fly under the radar a bit, at least for one day.
 

el henry

Fangirl of men’s spirals and split jumps
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 3, 2014
Country
United-States
This is fair statement. I was reminded about this when I saw a headline touting that Simone's sponsors were "standing behind her." Well... of course they are. They've got big money tied up in this, and I imagine they're trying to salvage their investment. If they thought the better payoff was in throwing her under a bus, they'd be doing that.

All of these corporations are in it for the money - they're not philanthropists. I'm fine with that, actually. Although I do get furious with NBC for such shallow appointed-hero-slanted coverage. They're giving the mindless masses what they want, and I suppose that's where the money is.

I do think that Simone's corporate sponsors "read the room" however, they realize most of the negative nattering comes from keyboard warriors with another agenda, (at least what I see on social media) and there is no downside to supporting an athlete's decision to attend to their mental health.

Also, to pick up on another post, (because I am too lazy to quote twice:biggrin:), NBC's corporate coverage of the Olys is absolutely slanted to Americans. Which comports with the coverage I have seen or heard from other networks in other countries. Every single country emphasizes, praises and promotes its own athletes. As well they ought.

And I love all the items you listed about Sunisa Lee and I hope NBC does promote it. (I don't follow gymnastics so I literally only knew Simone Biles). The fact that she is the first Hmong American at the Olys:clap:, that her father is recovering from an accident, all of it does make me feel more inclined to watch her and to root for her.

For me, sports is of course an emotional enterprise. Involving me emotionally in a sport I do not know is a good move. The fans who want to follow Xs and Os (however those are defined in whatever sport) still can, and dabblers like me can learn more(y)
 

Amei

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 11, 2013
I agree, but again, why would someone propose the terms which are against the athletes? And why in an Olympic event any network has any right to propose any terms in first place?

Because the broadcasting rights is HUGE money, based on some Google searching NBC paid 12 billion dollars for the broadcasting rights through 2032. If I was paying 12 billion dollars I would be making sure I have at least a loud voice at the table for the scheduling of the events. The IOC does not make money because Jane or John Doe won an Olympic medal or participated in an event, it does however make money based off who buys the rights to broadcast Jane or John Doe's event.

And as long as the athletes have a couple weeks advance notice on the times of their events, I don't think it should be a problem for what are supposedly the best athletes the world has to offer, if they can't handle perhaps having to perform in competition at a different time then they are used to - they probably don't really belong at the Olympics.
 
Last edited:

moonvine

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 14, 2007
High hopes that NBC will show more than one of her routines on their "coverage" tonight. Two would be nice, and twice as many as the one routine they showed last night from Daiki Hashimoto. Oh well, they had all-important SEMI-final swim heats to get back to last night, so it was too much to expect that we'd get more than one routine from the host-country's young champion. Of course we MUST see ALL the swimming - the full race of every single stroke, every single distance, and God forbid they short-change even one semi-final swim or show a semi-final highlight reel or something in order to make time for more than a half-dozen routines in men's gymnastics. I like a good swim race as much as anyone, but last night was ridiculous. I know, let it go.
Watch the whole thing on replay
 

TontoK

Hot Tonto
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 28, 2013
Country
United-States
I do think that Simone's corporate sponsors "read the room" however, they realize most of the negative nattering comes from keyboard warriors with another agenda, (at least what I see on social media) and there is no downside to supporting an athlete's decision to attend to their mental health.

One of the things I struggle to understand is what exactly defines a mental health concern as it regards athletes. Athlete's mental health has suddenly come to the forefront for the public recently. Naomi Osaka, and now Simone Biles. But what is it really?

I expect all performers (athletes, singers, public speakers...) get nervous. We all worry about things beyond our control. At some point in our life we all deal with loss of a close friend or loved one. This is just life.

It sounds as though Simone's situation is beyond that - if it is effecting her body's ability to react in a way that keeps her safe, even if her entire sport inherently involves a lot of risk. Her mental health concern has manifested itself as a physical issue. I have no idea what the situation is with Osaka, as I don't care enough about her to learn about it. Michael Phelps is also an advocate of dealing with depression, but his situation didn't really impact his athletic performances.

But in the back of my mind, I'm reminded of when "self care" crept into public awareness. I thought "self care" might involve things like setting aside space to research nutrition and exercise, finding healthy ways to meet new people, spend some time in self-reflection by studying religious or philosophical texts... that sort of thing. Instead, "self care" manifested itself among some acquaintances as wearing pajamas all day while eating a box of chocolates and binging Netflix. So, in my mind, "self care" is associated as "doing exactly what I want and refusing to act like an adult for a couple of days." If that's the plan, just do that, but don't invent a viral buzzword to justify it.
 

macy

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2011
^self care is also setting boundaries with yourself and others, knowing when to say no, recognizing when too much is too much, and prioritizing your own well being, mental or physical, for your own sake and not others. this is exactly what Simone is setting an example of.
 

TontoK

Hot Tonto
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 28, 2013
Country
United-States
That's fair, @macy.

But I'm being honest with my own thoughts about this, which are still evolving. If her situation is "something has gone wrong and I'm physically unable to compete safely" then I completely agree with that and support her. Who can argue?

However, if the situation is more along the lines of "this is stressful and I'd rather not deal with it" then I'm not so sure. I know she's had a lot of expectations, but she hasn't been shy about embracing those expectations. Whether she competes and wins medals (or not) isn't an issue for me. The Russian Team and Suni Lee are worthy champions. Good for all of them!

I hope she doesn't look back on this with regrets if the second scenario is the true story. Americans like winners, and we move on to new sweethearts rapidly and with ease. Suni Lee is now America's Sweetheart. She'll be the one on the cereal box. Those of us who follow the sport regularly know Simone Biles' achievements, contributions, and status. For the once-every-four-years gymnastics viewer - she's the girl who quit. Fair? No, but life generally isn't.
 

el henry

Fangirl of men’s spirals and split jumps
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 3, 2014
Country
United-States
That's fair, @macy.

But I'm being honest with my own thoughts about this, which are still evolving. If her situation is "something has gone wrong and I'm physically unable to compete safely" then I completely agree with that and support her. Who can argue?

However, if the situation is more along the lines of "this is stressful and I'd rather not deal with it" then I'm not so sure. I know she's had a lot of expectations, but she hasn't been shy about embracing those expectations. Whether she competes and wins medals (or not) isn't an issue for me. The Russian Team and Suni Lee are worthy champions. Good for all of them!

I hope she doesn't look back on this with regrets if the second scenario is the true story. Americans like winners, and we move on to new sweethearts rapidly and with ease. Suni Lee is now America's Sweetheart. She'll be the one on the cereal box. Those of us who follow the sport regularly know Simone Biles' achievements, contributions, and status. For the once-every-four-years gymnastics viewer - she's the girl who quit. Fair? No, but life generally isn't.



Why would anyone think that Simone saying she needs to attend to her mental health is just "oh I can't deal with stress" rather than "if I can't concentrate, I could break my neck doing a vault"? "Sucking it up" is not some form of magical bravery.

I have seen that from keyboard warriors with, frankly, a political agenda that is not suitable for discussion here. From my point of view, we need to give athletes like Simone Biles, who have nothing to prove to anyone and are worthy champions this year or any year, tremendous props.:clap:
 

TontoK

Hot Tonto
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 28, 2013
Country
United-States
Why would anyone think that Simone saying she needs to attend to her mental health is just "oh I can't deal with stress" rather than "if I can't concentrate, I could break my neck doing a vault"? "Sucking it up" is not some form of magical bravery.

I have seen that from keyboard warriors with, frankly, a political agenda that is not suitable for discussion here. From my point of view, we need to give athletes like Simone Biles, who have nothing to prove to anyone and are worthy champions this year or any year, tremendous props.:clap:

I've repeatedly stated that if she wasn't able to compete safely then she absolutely made the right decision. I reaffirm that here and now.

I've also asked exactly what constitutes a mental health concern, as opposed to competitive stress and general nervousness. That's not an unreasonable question.

I don't know what sites you visit where keyboard warriors advocate "sucking it up" even though it meant breaking your neck, but it's not one I frequent, and I certainly don't agree with that point of view.
 

el henry

Fangirl of men’s spirals and split jumps
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 3, 2014
Country
United-States
I've repeatedly stated that if she wasn't able to compete safely then she absolutely made the right decision. I reaffirm that here and now.

I've also asked exactly what constitutes a mental health concern, as opposed to competitive stress and general nervousness. That's not an unreasonable question.

I don't know what sites you visit where keyboard warriors advocate "sucking it up" even though it meant breaking your neck, but it's not one I frequent, and I certainly don't agree with that point of view.

And I am sorry my friend I did not mean to imply that you were one of those warriors. I also did what I rail against, bringing other comments from other social media into GS, so I take back my complaining about that.

An article based on Simone's IG stories

My mind and my body are simply not in sync

"For anyone saying I quit. I didn't quit my mind & body are simply not in sync," she wrote. "As you can see here." (photo of her vault)

"I don't think you realize how dangerous this is on hard/competition surface," she wrote about the twist. "Nor do I have to explain why I put my health first. Physical health is mental health."

"Literally can not tell up from down. It's the craziest feeling ever. Not having an inch of control over your body. What's even scarier is since I have no idea where I am in the air, I also have NO idea how I am going to land. Or what I am going to land on. Head/hands/feet back…," Biles wrote. "I didn't have a bad performance and quit. I've had plenty of bad performances throughout my career and finished competition. I simply got so lost my safety was at risk as well as a team medal."


IMO, Simone should not need to explain herself, but she has done so.
 
Top