2015 NHK Mens Free Skate

[AnyaFei]

What were Hanyu and Mura saying about Brown? I'm interested to hear their take on Jason.

I'm sorry I can't find the original translation (it's like looking for a needle in a haystack ) but it was regarding having a 2-quad sp. Hanyu cited that you can get good scores, like Mura did, if elements were done nicely (getting good GOEs) then Mura also mentioned Jason Brown how he gets good scores even without a quad due to his very good elements (good GOEs on elements). I'm not sure if anybody noticed it but before the victory ceremony, Hanyu's "I really like your jumps! Jiayou!" and thumbs up to boyang jin :agree: see, even skaters themselves gives praises to other skaters

 

[Esopian]

You can't force people to be interested in something they aren't. I've been dealing with the fact that people around me aren't interested in the same things as me for years. It's actually not that difficult.

Same! This is funny because I've been an avid fan of figure skating for a while now and after Yuzuru's scores were up yesterday, I told almost everyone who talked to me that "He beat 300 points! World record!" and nobody really paid attention or knew what that meant. But I'm still super happy about his achievements and glad how I can discuss this with everyone on the forum. :thumbsup:

 

[Winnie_20]

Does VGM mean video game music? If so, last season he did a "Legend of Zelda" FP, but only performed it once. And it was at the 2014 Skate Canada Autumn Classic.

Yes it does, and Oh My, he did? I sooo need to see this! Do you know if there is a recording of it somewhere? *off to search*

 

[yude]

Congratulations to all the medalists

http://headlines.yahoo.co.jp/hl?a=20151129-00000048-dal-spo

Yuzuru said he couldn't sleep well last night with excitement, he was glad that he could have two clean performances rather than good score he got. He said again his ideal champion is Plushenko and he is the definite hero and admiration for him. And the media said to Yuzuru, " You surpassed Plushenko, did you?", but he answered, "He competed in the defferent point system. He had his programs on his own and I have my programs on my own. But his aura, his power, those kind of atomosphere are my aspirations. I want to be the one and only like him"

 

[CaroLiza_fan]

A repeat of the Men's Free is due to start on British Eurosport 2 after the break.

Seeing as the Gala was longer than what Eurosport's schedule allowed for, I assume we won't be getting any more than the 3 skaters that were shown when it was added to the schedules last night, in between the Pairs FS and the snooker.

CaroLiza_fan

 

[karne]

Congratulations to all the medalists

http://headlines.yahoo.co.jp/hl?a=20151129-00000048-dal-spo

Yuzuru said he couldn't sleep well last night with excitement, he was glad that he could have two clean performances rather than good score he got. He said again his ideal champion is Plushenko and he is the definite hero and admiration for him. And the media said to Yuzuru, " You surpassed Plushenko, did you?", but he answered, "He competed in the defferent point system. He had his programs on his own and I have my programs on my own. But his aura, his power, those kind of atomosphere are my aspirations. I want to be the one and only like him"

He must have been thrilled to see Plushenko's congratulations, then :yes: The King adores him. (But then the King is a little fanboy who confesses to watching Youtube videos of his favourites. Just like us!)

 

[seniorita]

Came late to the party after I saw Hanyu's Lp (x10)

 

[Art&Sport]

This is a MESS. Other than the opening jump, all jumps are labored or messy or underrotated or poorly landed.

and he can't really SKATE!

My thoughts exactly! The kid can rotate quads and in his first year in seniors he gets podium cred because he can land quad lutz combo and 3 messy quads in fp. :noshake: Boyang first needs to learn how to skate. Such a messy program and performance. For me, neither Boyang nor Mura belong on the podium. Both of them have too high PCS. Boyang should be receiving only in the 5s and 6s for PCS, not high 7s. No way that Boyang's PCS should be higher than Grant's!

Judging and the entire sport is so out of whack. The way fans and commentators make excuses for the judging and the crazy IJS rules is mind-boggling. Scoring is mostly all about politics, quads, reputation, quads and politics.

The very talented skaters like Richard Dornbush who can't seem to get over the quad hump (and Richard has proven he knows how to land great quads), if they can't break through or get a chance to compete on the bigger stage to gain momentum, I guess they might as well stop punishing their bodies for little reward. It's the sport's and fans' loss, but judges prefer to reward wet behind the ears quad meisters. It's a decision I guess Richard has to make for himself. Personally, I think it's hard with all the depth and the need to punish one's body training quads, and then because of deep talent in U.S. and under-performing too often, simply unable to make World team consistently enough to gain momentum.

This sport is way too quad-fusing. Oh and kudos to Yuzuru who finally skated two clean performances; great effort but the score is OTT. I'd like to see Yuzu do a bit more to bring out the character of Seimei, but under this scoring system, it's more important to conserve his energy and focus to land the quads cleanly. The judges will gift Yuzu with more than enough PCS anyway with or without clean quads.

 

[Art&Sport]

I know half of you are gonna come at me screaming, but I just can't bring myself to enjoy his skating. I actually like the kid, he's kind of adorable. And he's a baby, he'll probably get there. But right now ....meh

Yep, he's a baby with quads, and he just don't belong on the podium. Really mind-boggling how everyone takes the disastrous skate and the whack scoring in stride cuz the kid rotated quads and otherwise bumbled around on the ice in messy fashion. The scary thing is the way skaters nod their heads like 'yeah great' when they get scores out the wazoo that they don't deserve.

I'm not so sure Boyang 'will probably get there,' since he's already there on the podium. Actually knowing how to skate and having superb presentation skills is such an afterthought when judges adore, over-reward, and enforce quad content.

 

[OS]

My thoughts exactly! The kid can rotate quads and in his first year in seniors he gets podium cred because he can land quad lutz combo and 3 messy quads in fp. :noshake: Boyang first needs to learn how to skate. Such a messy program and performance. For me, neither Boyang nor Mura belong on the podium. Both of them have too high PCS. Boyang should be receiving only in the 5s and 6s for PCS, not high 7s. No way that Boyang's PCS should be higher than Grant's!

Judging and the entire sport is so out of whack. The way fans and commentators make excuses for the judging and the crazy IJS rules is mind-boggling. Scoring is mostly all about politics, quads, reputation, quads and politics.

Of course figure skating - particularly the mens are all about quads and politics. When is it NOT about quads and politics? Do you think millions around the world tune in to watch the Olympics mens figure skating every 4 years is there to watch: Ohhh~ this is so artistic? Or that blimey look at all those quads crazy or what?! Amazing!!!

To watch ladies however, it may be a slightly different standard, a double standard even, but it has to do with society's objectifying view on gender issues, plus the cultural heritage of ladies evens being perceived as a marquee event at the Olympics with all that glitter and elegance.

Figure skating is both Sport and Art but primarily a sport. I wonder if Boyang and Hanyu had been American, you'd still feel the same way. I am thankful Boyang don't represent USA, otherwise he'd probably get punished like Max.

Like other posters have said, everybody should able to compete in anyway they like. They all follow the same point reward system (and theoretically should be the same judging system), be it jocks, emos, the rare best of both worlds... or the Ace who can fluctuate between both worlds and boost either art/tech as they need to. To me Hanyu was totally inspired by Boyang as he admit himself in the short (and probably his last defeat against Patrick) ... and my gawd.. with Patrick at worlds, this can only get better and great for the sport.

 

[Eclair]

first of all, congrats to Hanyu, Boyang and Mura for making the podium!!

Hanyu was just out of this world. :eeking: Is he superhuman or what?

Great to see the 4lz to be so consistent for Boyang. For all the people who repeat how he didn't deserve his pcs: Judges have ALWAYS awarded skaters who were best in the field with high pcs, regardless of whether their skating skills or performances matched up. Examples:

- Kostner bombs her jumps totally, still gets high pcs because she's the best lady in the world in terms of SS
- Alissa Czysney bombs her performance, still gets high pcs because she was the best lady in the world in terms of spins
- Hanyu getting high pcs when he was younger, even though he may have been sloppy, because he was the best jumper in the world
- Patrick getting high pcs even if he bombs his jumps to much that it influences his performances, but he's the best in terms of SS
- Adam Rippon getting a pcs-rise this season, because he was the only man to try a 4lz
- Liza getting high pcs at worlds last year, because she was the only women to jump a 3axel

I could go on with the list forever. And while I was often annoyed when judges gave out pcs for nothing or didn't score the segments seperately from each other, I'm not too busted about them giving skaters a pcs bonus for being the best in the world in one segment or doing something nobody else can do.

 

[Tavi...]

Of course figure skating - particularly the mens are all about quads and politics. When is it NOT about quads and politics? Do you think millions around the world tune in to watch the Olympics mens figure skating every 4 years is there to watch: Ohhh~ this is so artistic? Or that blimey look at all those quads crazy or what?! Amazing!!!

Do you think the millions in the world who tune in to watch Olympic men's figure skating would actually be able to identify a 4-rotation jump versus a triple without being told by an announcer? Because those rotations go by awfully quickly, and I find it hard to believe that most of them can tell or really care. Not to mention that in the last Olympics, what they probably ended up thinking was blimey look at all those guys splatting on their jumps, I can't believe that the guy who didn't fall wasn't the winner.

Figure skating is both Sport and Art but primarily a sport. I wonder if Boyang and Hanyu had been American, you'd still feel the same way. I am thankful Boyang don't represent USA, otherwise he'd probably get punished like Max.

So are you saying that if someone doesn't appreciate Boyang and Hanyu, they're racist?

Like other posters have said, everybody should able to compete in anyway they like. They all follow the same point reward system (and theoretically should be the same judging system), be it jocks, emos, the rare best of both worlds... or the Ace who can fluctuate between both worlds and boost either art/tech as they need to. To me Hanyu was totally inspired by Boyang as he admit himself in the short (and probably his last defeat against Patrick) ... and my gawd.. with Patrick at worlds, this can only get better and great for the sport.

I don't hear anyone saying that every skater has to skate the same or strategize to win in the same way, or that they want to see only one kind of skating. I do hear people saying that overly high PCS shouldn't be awarded to a skater simply because he's attempting a program that's extremely difficult technically, and I do think that's been happening in the case of Boyang Jin. I thought his short program was quite good and shows what he may be capable of in the future, but IMO, his FS wasn't in the same ballpark and in my personal opinion, really didn't deserve the PCS it was awarded. And that's what I really take issue with: it skews the playing field for no good reason. In my opinion, simply saying well, Boyang's PCS is 20 points behind Hanyu's or Fernandez's isn't good enough because it's still too high relative to the others and relative to what he actually puts out there, making it difficult for anyone else to compete successfully. Whether or not he becomes a Hanyu or a Chan in the future, he's clearly not one now, and IMO he shouldn't be basically guaranteed a podium finish just for that one jump. It's an incredible feat, yes, but not enough to warrant that.

For the record, I agree with you that Boyang's incredible technical difficulty fired up Hanyu, and I loved both of Hanyu's performances - they were both absolutely mesmerizing. In addition to the power of his actual skating and presentation, it was absolutely compelling to see his visible concentration and desire to win reflected in every movement, moment of stillness and expression on his face. His FS in particular was truly the performance of a life time. It wasn't the quads per se that interested me, but his determination to skate a clean program that happened to be very technically difficult, and his success in doing so.

 

[Rissa]

My thoughts exactly! The kid can rotate quads and in his first year in seniors he gets podium cred because he can land quad lutz combo and 3 messy quads in fp. :noshake: Boyang first needs to learn how to skate. Such a messy program and performance. For me, neither Boyang nor Mura belong on the podium. Both of them have too high PCS. Boyang should be receiving only in the 5s and 6s for PCS, not high 7s. No way that Boyang's PCS should be higher than Grant's!

Oh, I don't know. Frankly, I prefered both Boyang and Mura to Grant, messy or not. :confused2: Mura definitely belonged on the podium, he had an excellent short and a very good long. I must say, however, that Grant's spins are exceptional.

 

[whatif]

I am not Jin's biggest fan, but I can't help but laugh at some haters seething at Boyang's success here. He may be in the first season but he clearly beat his competition. Numbers do not lie. Skaters fresh out of juniors medal and win every year, specifically in Ladies, nothing new here. Could he have gotten 6.9 instead of 7.6 in PCS, perhaps, but that's so irrelevant given the state of the rest of the competition. Even if Dornbush etc.got 1 or 2 points higher PCS, it would not justify putting him on the podium. Nor I think Jin's PCS should that much lower than Hochstein's or Tanaka's.

 

[Barb]

Do you think the millions in the world who tune in to watch Olympic men's figure skating would actually be able to identify a 4-rotation jump versus a triple without being told by an announcer? Because those rotations go by awfully quickly, and I find it hard to believe that most of them can tell or really care. .

I think if people cant identify a quad at least the jump looks impressive and that difference is notable. In men skating jumps are really important, if not someone explain to me why Plushenko is sooo famous?, sorry but he is only jumps.

 

[aa456]

Late to the party but huge congratulations to Hanyu! What a competition this has been for him. I posted earlier in this thread wishing that Hanyu wouldn't run out of steam by the end of his skate, and boy, look how he skated! What did they feed him at the cricket club to improve his conditioning so much in weeks?!

Also, did people notice that Hanyu got +3 GOE for his first 3axel combo in the long. That one was a beauty.

 

[Rissa]

I think if people cant identify a quad at least the jump looks impressive and that difference is notable. In men skating jumps are really important, if not someone explain to me why Plushenko is sooo famous?, sorry but he is only jumps.

That's because Plushnko wasn't only jumps (and I'm saying it as a total Yagudin fangirl from back when). If he really were only jumps, he wouldn't be so famous. I saw him live last year and he wasn't exactly killing it with jumps, but there was a powerul aura around him so I can't imagine what it must have been back in his heyday. Even on TV he exuded larger-than-life confidence. He was just a charismatic skater with oodles of performance ability. Obviously not for everyone, but most people responed to it. You really, really can't make it popularity-wise like Plushenko thanks to jumps alone.

I thin people here have a tendency to severely underestimate the variety of appeal that exists out there in the performing world. For example, I completely don't get what people see in Joshua Farris but accept that he's appealing for many. There's a poster here who just can't accept that Jason Brown's performance skills are as valid as any other form of artistry, evidenced by his popularity. Same with Hanyu, I sometimes see "he's just jumps" opinion which find mindbogglng because a"just jumps" skater doesn't garner international following like that, medals or not medals.

Boyang Jin, in my opinion, isn't "just jumps", he seem to be quite a charismatic skater. There is something in him that does remind me a bit of Plushenko that straight-back posing confidence maybe, that he showed in his SP.

 

[aa456]

I think if people cant identify a quad at least the jump looks impressive and that difference is notable. In men skating jumps are really important, if not someone explain to me why Plushenko is sooo famous?, sorry but he is only jumps.

I completely agree that jumps are very important in men's skating but I don't think plushy is famous only for his jumps. His best elements may be his jumps, yes, but I personally think what makes him so famous is his personality/ confidence. I'm no fan of his and the programs of his that I have watched have been...interesting, to put it nicely but he has a presence on the ice. He demands your attention. I think Yuzu has that too.

 

[Ilvskating]

Well he is a legend, and if he take part in PyeongChang Hanyu may get extra motivated and break 350!!! (Is that possible?) What is the highest men can go?

I thinks it's possible if he get four different quads, and two 3A

 

[Rissa]

I thinks it's possible if he get four different quads, and two 3A

Or if the rules of scoring get chandged somehow, for example if PCS get a higher factor.