2016 Skate Canada Ladies FP

[Alexz]

Exactly. The difference is that it's far more likely that people who lost loved ones on 9/11 will be in the audience to listen to the sounds of the worst day of their lives.

We should ban all the movies which "based on true events" now too. With all due respect, don't be silly. It's not the sounds or skating choreography who made 9/11 tragedy happen, but the terrorists. I personally see no disrespect in this program towards anyone. On contrary it shows the struggle of suspense, when good or bad news are expecting to come.. I personally don't see this program as a masterpiece, but it has all the rights to exist and be performed. It's tacky? Yep, in some way. It's tear-jerking gimmicky? Yep. Cheesy? Not really, it covers a serious topic - losing the loved ones to terrorist attack, and 9/11 does not hold monopoly on this this here. Terrorism is international biggest problem #1. Why hate the figure skating program and don't hate terrorism?

 

[TMC]

Hey, I'm a Jew and I would be ok with it. It's not like we should hate all Germans now for no reason. The problem was not Germany and not even ideology is supremacy, but the dirty politics and unfair situation German nation was put into after WW1, which surely led to WW2. Med's program is not just about 9/11, but if you like hating - hate not the choreographer, not the coach, not the program and not the young skater, but hate terrorists and politicians who sponsoring them. Art is the most important thing that brings freedom and unity to our world, and yet you along some others are advocating against freedom of artistic expression and trying to introduce censorship. Trust me not everything on this planet is about you and you shallow bubble of small world you live in. I know you better than that, just look on this program from other people's perspective. They also lost their people in other countries tries due to terrorist attacks too.

Well this just took the biscuit

 

[luckyguy]

Huh? I think you misunderstood...in case you didn't know =/= means "not equal to".

So what I wrote was "Saying I feel this 9/11 programme is offensive is not equal to saying I don't like Evgenia". Or, "I don't like this programme, but it doesn't mean that I don't like Evgenia".

In other words, when I say I find it offensive, I am not saying that I don't like Evgenia.

There were many comments about feeling offended by the programme (again, not Evgenia), and a lot of replies to them stating something like "so you don't like her". I find it puzzling how people can draw a conclusion like that.

Yes, I misunderstood you.

 

[avantgardener]

Ugh. And as for the people who keep bringing up Holocaust programmes, okay, perhaps they can imagine a slow, mournful score and, as the skater begins their step sequence, overlaid we hear the hiss of the gas pipes, screams in Yiddish and people choking. Well, this to many feels similar.

At the risk of being a contrarian, I actually think that could (in some respects/certain cases) be *less* offensive... Because at least then the skater (and we, the audience) would be confronted and forced to grapple with something very real about that very real tragedy. In a sense... what's more offensive / exploitative than a program that uses "Schindler's List" / the Holocaust theme as easy shorthand for conveying solemnity + artistic depth + emotion—without actually engaging with or trying to say something meaningful about the actual tragedy?

I think Medevedva's program is pretty terrible—but not because it's offensive re:9/11 —> unless we also classify Holocaust- (or other tragedy-) themed programs as offensive/disrespectful... Ha, but part of me does, actually, think that maybe there just is no way for a competitive figure skating program to use a specific tragedy as the program's theme without being inherently exploitative and disrespectful. [And my apologies if I'm just way overthinking this... it's one of my best worst traits... :think: ].

 

[Alexz]

Well this just took the biscuit

Do you you have some milk too pretty please. Thank you.

 

[Mrs. P]

At the risk of being a contrarian, I actually think that could (in some respects/certain cases) be *less* offensive... Because at least then the skater (and we, the audience) would be confronted and forced to grapple with something very real about that very real tragedy. In a sense... what's more offensive / exploitative than a program that uses "Schindler's List" / the Holocaust theme as easy shorthand for conveying solemnity + artistic depth + emotion—without actually engaging with or trying to say something meaningful about the actual tragedy?

I think Medevedva's program is pretty terrible—but not because it's offensive re:9/11 —> unless we also classify Holocaust- (or other tragedy-) themed programs as offensive/disrespectful... Ha, but part of me does, actually, think that maybe there just is no way for a competitive figure skating program to use a specific tragedy as the program's theme without being inherently exploitative and disrespectful. [And my apologies if I'm just way overthinking this... it's one of my best worst traits... :think: ].

I don't think people are against programs with a message, but that the step sequence has actual sound bites from responder calls from 9/11 from people who were there. It would be like having a step sequence to sounds from the gas chamber if that was available.

I will say Katrina Witt's Olympic 1994 program Where Have all the Flowers gone is a good example of skating to a program regarding tragic events.

 

[TMC]

We should ban all the movies which "based on true events" now too. With all due respect, don't be silly. It's not the sounds or skating choreography who made 9/11 tragedy happen, but the terrorists. I personally see no disrespect in this program towards anyone. On contrary it shows the struggle of suspense, when good or bad news are expecting to come.. I personally don't see this program as a masterpiece, but it has all the rights to exist and be performed. It's tacky? Yep, in some way. It's tear-jerking gimmicky? Yep. Cheesy? Not really, it covers a serious topic - losing the loved ones to terrorist attack, and 9/11 does not hold monopoly on this this here. Terrorism is international biggest problem #1. Why hate the figure skating program and don't hate terrorism?

Yes, because it's impossible to hate both.

Nobody is saying this programme has no right to exist, or advocating against freedom of artistic expression and trying to introduce censorship. That is just preposterous. Criticizing is not the same as suppressing. It's not like we on this board can force anybody to change their programmes! So when people are offended by something, they should not say it out loud? I don't think that would be a good policy.

 

[TMC]

Yes, I misunderstood you.

I'm glad you gave me a chance to explain, thank you

 

[Tolstoj]

I've just noticed it that the other commentator of игра was Fedor Klimov :shocked:

 

[TMC]

Misha just had the Skate Of His Life! (Wrong thread but I had to share the love!!!)

 

[Alex D]

It´s extremely sad to see people hate a skater for an expressive program, that is supposed to send a message, but I am afraid that message can no longer be heard, as propaganda has taken over the hearts of many at this forum and all around the world. Don´t you even realize, how angry and full of hate you are? Job well done, by the politicians who put the seed of hate into your all hearts, it´s so sad.

You know, we had several programs in the past, where skaters talked about things that really happened in life, be it the Tsunami victims, Holocaust or sinking of the Titanic.

If we look at the most successful music and Hollywood productions, then they are almost always about a dramatic scenario of the past. Titanic, James Ryan - both award winning movies that everyone has seen and I bet, nobody of those who hate on the Russian now, has ever cared about any victim of the second world war or the sinking. Yes, people died there too, my grandfather was shot, my grandmother put into a labor camp - so what, does this mean, I have to hate Americans for these movies who cash in on the tragedy of the European continent, that I have to hate Russians because of things their grandparents might have done?

Seriously,

Evgenias programs were not created to offend anyone, they were created to send a message, each program of her is real, I can identify myself with each one, the loss of hearing is so real for all of us that make music, the threats of terror, the change from dark to light, something that happens almost every day in our society - we had weeks in Europe, where almost daily a terror attack was committed, it´s all there, it´s the world we live in and it get´s worse every day, as people are so stubborn and dumb to believe everything that politicians say. I am glad that she is so brave to skate meaningful programs, that are not about "lalala, we are all happy". She is going a different path and I support that.

That being said, if what I saw today and also yesterday, is really what this forum will be all about this season, then I will pass, thank you.

 

[hikki]

I really don't like how programs like Medvedeva's are rewarded. Gone is the genuine magic and now it's a bunch of point-getter moves and cheap effects and voila, the winning formula. I mean does anyone actually get moved by that cheap "narrative"? Brings figure skating to a new level of tackiness.

Not to take away her exquisite talent and ability. I'm just criticising the platform she's been given and the direction made to aim for.

I'll go and replay Patrick Chan.

 

[Alexz]

Yes, because it's impossible to not hate both.

Nobody is saying this programme has no right to exist, or advocating against freedom of artistic expression and trying to introduce censorship. That is just preposterous. Criticizing is not the same as suppressing. It's not like we on this board can force anybody to change their programmes! So when people are offended by something, they should not say it out loud? I don't think that would be a good policy.

There are many movies and documentaries on subject of tragedy/conspiracy around 9/11. IMHO, this figure skating choreography is not that bad comparing to some. Could the music be better and has less SFX? Yeah, but I still can't see how people can be offended by ... what excatly? .... sounds? We are not offended by shameless lies of our dirty crooked politicians, we are not fighting barbaric terrorists, but we should be offended by sound snippets from newscasts of the past? C'mon, people. This program is not about people dying in NYC, it was made in honor to all relatives who lost their friends and loved ones. The way I see it this choreography does not glorify or celebrate death, but shows the feelings of people who are about to receive the bad news (or not). A little courage here? It is extremely easy to get offended if one is looking for a reason to get offended. With all respect to all victims and relatives of 9/11 and many other tragedies of the past century.

Could this choreography be better? Yes. Is it a bit exploitative ? Yes, in a way, but so is all other art - it touches strings of our inner world and feelings. Art should make people feel, it should acres not only the pleasant and happy emotions, imho. It just should make you feel.

 

[TMC]

There are many movies and documentaries on subject of tragedy/conspiracy around 9/11. IMHO, this figure skating choreography is not that bad comparing to some. Could the music be better and has less SFX? Yeah, but I still can't see how people can be offended by ... what excatly? .... sounds? We are not offended by shameless lies of our dirty crooked politicians, we are not fighting barbaric terrorists, but we should be offended by sound snippets from newscasts of the past? C'mon, people. This program is not about people dying in NYC, it was made in honor to all relatives who lost their friends and loved ones. The way I see it this choreography does not glorify or celebrate death, but shows the feelings of people who are about to receive the bad news (or not). A little courage here? It is extremely easy to get offended if one is looking for a reason to get offended. With all respect to all victims and relatives of 9/11 and many other tragedies of the past century.

I don't know about others, but I'm offended by all of those things and more. In fact, there's no limit - I can be offended by everything. I'm not, but it is possible to care about many things at the same time.

 

[TMC]

Could this choreography be better? Yes. Is it a bit exploitative ? Yes, in a way, but so does all other art - it touches strings of our inner world and feelings. Art should make people feel, it should acres not only the pleasant and happy emotions, imho. It just should make you feel.

Then why is it not okay that it makes me feel offended? Are my feelings not valid? Should I suppress them?

 

[Alexz]

I don't know about others, but I'm offended by all of those things and more. In fact, there's no limit - I can be offended by everything. I'm not, but it is possible to care about many things at the same time.

It's easy to give a reason for those how are looking for the one.

 

[TMC]

It's easy to give a reason for those how are looking for the one.

I'm not even going to guess what you mean by this.

 

[Alexz]

Then why is it not okay that it makes me feel offended? Are my feelings not valid? Should I suppress them?

Here. You feel offended. Art can be provocative too. If this program and choreography are so discussable and controversial - Averbukh reached his goal to start people discussing the issue of terrorism. Certainly, your feeling IS valid, but that only means that silly Averbukh got what he wanted by his oh-not-so-perfect choreography - he made you feel. Since you just can't shut it for another good hour after the Med's skate is over. And Averbukh is probably happily asleep right on another side of the planet. And yet here you are so "offended" and vocal here. I say his goal is reached?

You will be surprised ho many more provocative art out there in modern world now. Just go to the closest art expo. Start with some controversial photographers first and move your way slowly into indie cinematography.

 

[Alexz]

I'm not even going to guess what you mean by this.

And I'm totally not insisting. I'm a totalitarian "let it go" type.

 

[TMC]

Here. You feel offended. Art can be provocative too. If this program and choreography are so discussable and controversial - Averbukh reached his goal to start people discussing the issue of terrorism. Certainly, your feeling IS valid, but that only means that silly Averbukh got what he wanted by his oh-not-so-perfect choreography - he made you feel. Since you just can't shut it for another good hour after the Med's skate is over. And Averbukh is probably happily asleep right on another side of the planet. And yet here you are so "offended" and vocal here. I say his goal is reached?

You will be surprised ho many more provocative art out there in modern world now. Just go to the closest art expo. Start with some controversial photographers first and move your way slowly into indie cinematography.

Oh dear lord