- Joined
- Jun 21, 2007
Patrick Chan
- Thread starter emma
- Start date
- Joined
- Nov 3, 2012
I first noticed it in the other thread I've been participating in and I thought, "WHERE did that come from? I WANT IT!" But, don't worry, I won't steal it from you. It fits you perfectly.
:agree: with all of you!!!
That would be something. People used to be so upset about Patrick's scores/wins, but now he is the one in the shadows that few people expect to medal. It would be lovely if he medaled or won, but as long as he skates well, I'll be happy.Good luck to Patrick at the upcoming Worlds in Helsinki!
Personally wouldn't mind at all if he's to win this one!And would be very very nice if he can escort our little Shoma onto the podium.
:yes:
I'm excited to see what happens!!! :hap85:Honestly, as I like both Patrick and Shoma, I'd be happy with that, but i just wish for Patrick to skate well... medals don't matter and if he is going to get a medal, let it be at the Olympics next year rather than at worlds this year
- Joined
- Nov 19, 2010
Lois Elfman Twits:
Chan has changed the order of the 1st three elements in free program. Logical to try a different order. #worlds2017 Combinations moved also.
Trying to leverage for more points.
The change was to allow myself a new approach and have the possibility of the jumps being more successful under competitive pressure. Chan
After 4C, Chan inspired to try something new to do a clean program. He watched Hanyu and Chen's programs. Interesting to watch them skate.
Seeing what kind of strategy Chan can make to make up for technical.
Chan admits he's a been surprised by how the sport has changed since 2014. It's an exciting time.
Chan continues to work with a sports psychologist. It's been great. "I've gained a lot of benefits when it comes to competing."
He's learned how some of his internal dialogues are completely normal. Prepare himself for anything in the future.
Chan feels he can compete with the best in the world, but he understands he needs to skate clean. New decisions for next season.
What's important is identifying what's pure emotion and what you need to improve on. Take frustration and make a plan of attack for Worlds.
No matter what, Chan knows the transitions and skating skills are sacrificed to add quads. He has to go w/the direction of the sport.
Hopefully, combine quads with great skating skills. Skate the way he's always skated and add quads.
Chan says there's not a simple answer as to whether his comeback has been worth it. It's a different approach than prior to 2014.
It's exciting because he's exploring the unknown.
It's exciting bc he's added another quad. He's surprised himself. Feels miles ahead of where he was before Worlds 2016.
I have a very good planned program in both the short and the long...if it's executed properly. Chan says
Chan has changed the order of the 1st three elements in free program. Logical to try a different order. #worlds2017 Combinations moved also.
Trying to leverage for more points.
The change was to allow myself a new approach and have the possibility of the jumps being more successful under competitive pressure. Chan
After 4C, Chan inspired to try something new to do a clean program. He watched Hanyu and Chen's programs. Interesting to watch them skate.
Seeing what kind of strategy Chan can make to make up for technical.
Chan admits he's a been surprised by how the sport has changed since 2014. It's an exciting time.
Chan continues to work with a sports psychologist. It's been great. "I've gained a lot of benefits when it comes to competing."
He's learned how some of his internal dialogues are completely normal. Prepare himself for anything in the future.
Chan feels he can compete with the best in the world, but he understands he needs to skate clean. New decisions for next season.
What's important is identifying what's pure emotion and what you need to improve on. Take frustration and make a plan of attack for Worlds.
No matter what, Chan knows the transitions and skating skills are sacrificed to add quads. He has to go w/the direction of the sport.
Hopefully, combine quads with great skating skills. Skate the way he's always skated and add quads.
Chan says there's not a simple answer as to whether his comeback has been worth it. It's a different approach than prior to 2014.
It's exciting because he's exploring the unknown.
It's exciting bc he's added another quad. He's surprised himself. Feels miles ahead of where he was before Worlds 2016.
I have a very good planned program in both the short and the long...if it's executed properly. Chan says
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- Joined
- Nov 19, 2010
I'm EXCITED!
I've been thinking about Patrick and Nathan. They are both extremely talented and can be complete skaters with both top technical skills and artistry. Patrick could have been adding quads after his consistently beautiful 4T but he decided to focus on artistry after he became the top technical skater. Nathan has always had musical and artistic talents but decided to focus on quads to make history. They are both extremely capable achievers of their goals.
Patrick has acquired his superb skating skills and sublime artistic expression sans pareil. He has established himself as the artist on ice purely through his skating. Yet in competition these days, rewards for skating skills and artistry is capped and meaninglessly scored, no less. Men's skating is all about quads now if one has winning ambitions.
Patrick is a superb athlete and a strong competitor as evidenced by his titles and accomplishments. He had to go through very difficult mental and technical adjustments when he came back after a year off. He has made amazing progress since even though it has not been reflected in his placements.
Now his competitive spirits is rekindled. I'm happy it's his decision to make necessary adjustments because he wants to win. And I know how amazingly talented and capable he is and how successful he can be to achieve his goals. It's no more "I just want to be in the pack" (which bothered me) but "I feel I can compete with the best in the world." (I would like him to think "I'm the best in the world" though saying it would no doublt be very distracting with all the trashing to follow.)
Go Patrick go! We are with you all the way, no matter what happens.
I've been thinking about Patrick and Nathan. They are both extremely talented and can be complete skaters with both top technical skills and artistry. Patrick could have been adding quads after his consistently beautiful 4T but he decided to focus on artistry after he became the top technical skater. Nathan has always had musical and artistic talents but decided to focus on quads to make history. They are both extremely capable achievers of their goals.
Patrick has acquired his superb skating skills and sublime artistic expression sans pareil. He has established himself as the artist on ice purely through his skating. Yet in competition these days, rewards for skating skills and artistry is capped and meaninglessly scored, no less. Men's skating is all about quads now if one has winning ambitions.
Patrick is a superb athlete and a strong competitor as evidenced by his titles and accomplishments. He had to go through very difficult mental and technical adjustments when he came back after a year off. He has made amazing progress since even though it has not been reflected in his placements.
Now his competitive spirits is rekindled. I'm happy it's his decision to make necessary adjustments because he wants to win. And I know how amazingly talented and capable he is and how successful he can be to achieve his goals. It's no more "I just want to be in the pack" (which bothered me) but "I feel I can compete with the best in the world." (I would like him to think "I'm the best in the world" though saying it would no doublt be very distracting with all the trashing to follow.
)Go Patrick go! We are with you all the way, no matter what happens.
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- Joined
- Nov 3, 2012
Thanks for posting these! Now, I wonder if this means he'll add the 4S to the SP??? LP jumps rearranged, but no mention of SP changes - interesting. Sounds like Patrick is working hard for Worlds, including getting in a good mental state, not simply hoping his programs/results will be better. Bless Marina for inspiring him to go in new directions and reach for more success. He can be magical on the ice, but he has to work for it, which makes me all the more grateful for how often those magical moments (i.e. clean skates) have happened in his career already. Whatever the result, Worlds will be exciting and I CAN'T WAIT!!!
I may not be the biggest Patrick fan, but I would love to see him skate his programs cleanly. There is no denying he brings something special to the sport and just watching his skating is a treat. To see him execute would definitely throw the cat in amongst the pigeons. I think he has it in him. Many people dismiss him now, saying he doesn't have the quad power, but if he skates clean I really want to see what the judges will give him, especially in PCS...considering the quad bonus we are seeing more often these days. Will they reward his skating properly? will they ignore his superior skating skills? this year will be a big measuring stick for where skating is going.
- Joined
- Nov 19, 2010
Of course he has it in him. He is adding new quads, for heaven's sake, at age 26, while many skaters who are not teen phenoms struggle to acquire one and suffer injuries in the process.
Forget PCS. It's capped and there is no room to score him fairly and appropriately even if there is such intention. His skating skills and artistry is only an advantage with close BVs and he is closing the BV gap.
Go Patrick go!
- Joined
- Oct 5, 2015
okay... i spilled the beans in another thread...
i have a new avatar
Patrick's journey just keeps getting more and more exciting!! I can't wait to see this new layout!Meanwhile, here's another lovely photo of him from 4CC:
https://twitter.com/YaBBVIP/status/843656286264791041
I expect that this is what he'll look like when Worlds is over!
- Joined
- Mar 7, 2015
okay guys...
i didn't hear the press conference and the tweets are confusing.... because we don't know what's in the past, present and future...
If I understood properly from other sources but I am not sure :
SP stays the same but next year it will be a two quad SP
LP first three passes would be 4t-3t, 4S and 3A-1/2L-3S.... Now... that's the shocking news to me.... that combo adds a couple points in base value for Patrick but he used to do a loop combo with the 3Lz and it wasn't a very great tool for him in the past... I am confused...
The twits do not elaborate... so where are we? anyone knows where to look?
i didn't hear the press conference and the tweets are confusing.... because we don't know what's in the past, present and future...
If I understood properly from other sources but I am not sure :
SP stays the same but next year it will be a two quad SP
LP first three passes would be 4t-3t, 4S and 3A-1/2L-3S.... Now... that's the shocking news to me.... that combo adds a couple points in base value for Patrick but he used to do a loop combo with the 3Lz and it wasn't a very great tool for him in the past... I am confused...
The twits do not elaborate... so where are we? anyone knows where to look?
Here is my blog entry...I attended the press call with Patrick today.
https://sportymags.wordpress.com/2017/03/21/patrick-chan-running-a-parallel-path/
https://sportymags.wordpress.com/2017/03/21/patrick-chan-running-a-parallel-path/
- Joined
- Mar 7, 2015
thanks but where is he planning to put the combos then? all in the second half?
I don't like that at all because if he doesn't manage a combo he loses a lot of points ...
- Joined
- Mar 7, 2015
thanks
i found this here (thanks ic3rabbit)... and it's still not 100% accurate... https://www.ifsmagazine.com/new-strategy-patrick-chan/
but i am guessing the following...
4t-3t, 4s, 3a-1/2loop-3s, second half... 4t, 3a, 3loop, 3lz-2t (has to be a double or else he would zayak.... ) 3f
I am not surprised that he is doing the 4S second instead of third and doing the combo in the first half with the axel... One of his issues this year has been that he missed the second 3A and then lost a huge chunk of points for not being able to tag any combo on them. So doing the combos right away is smart. Doing the 4S in second position is good too since he is fresher then.
Let's hope this works out well for him.
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- Joined
- Nov 19, 2010
This was a press conference call so there will be different versions soon enough.
The new layout is very interesting. Actually I was a bit surprised at where he put the 4S, after a 3A whereas his old layout always had the quads up front and done with before 3A and other jumps. 3A-1/2L-3S sounds exciting. I thought he'd added another quad, probably in the SP but rereading the twit I'm not sure if it just meant the 4S this season.
- Joined
- Mar 7, 2015
the new quad, i always read as the 4S this season... not even in the SP for now..
I do agree that at first, I was surprised of his layout... (at the beginning of the season)..
I always thought he would go 4S 4t-3t, 4t... then 3a combo etc...
simply because patrick used to get the two quad toes right away in the first bit of the program before.
But indeed, he did put a 3a in between the 4t and 4s at first... I much prefer the 4S done earlier. it makes more sense. Patrick's 3a is so much more stable that we have seen him experiment various combos in practice and warm up... he has done 3a-2t, 3a-2t-2l, 3a-3t so far.... now 3a-1/2-3S.... this puts him on similar base value with Javier BTW.
so here we are... let's see.
- Joined
- Nov 19, 2010
I don't think I read this exact article linked from this thread before or maybe I missed it. Lots of good stuff for a mind buff like me.
Canada's Patrick Chan focusing on mental game
Maybe I shouldn't be surprised, though I am, that Patrick had no idea how his best performances came about. Most people try to figure it out by examining the situation, the circumstances, the activities leading up to the event including the training, the food consumed, the lucky happenings, etc. Few would think of their mental and emotional state at the time and just before. If they could recreate that state of mind, they would most likely recreate the result. And that state is usually relaxed focus, a positive mood and a total belief in the positive outcome. I hope Patrick has learned the skill to get into it, which is the Zone. Getting into the flow and he will flow flawlessly on ice.
It's right for him not to set a goal he does not fully believe in. He can set up a goal achievable in his mind, like clean performances, instead of thinking about winning and the pressure that comes with it. However, though it's best to leave any resistance triggering thoughts alone, it's not necessary to explicitly exclude the possibility of a very desirable outcome or replacing it with a lower goal. That's why it bothered me that he just wanted to be in the pack. As he wished, he stayed with the pack with mediocre results. If he does not have the conviction of his winning chances, it's then best to not think about it at all but to focus on his goal of clean performances with successful attempts of his jumps. IOW, focusing on the process as oft advocated by 4verchan. However, a conviction of his ability and of winning is even better, if it's a real conviction, not a desperate optimism.
It was very interesting that Takahashi, who had said he wanted both a beautiful performance and winning, could not answer when asked to choose one. A good performance would likely lead to a win but the two goals/results are not equivalent. But one doesn't have to choose. Pick both, or one without rejecting the other.
I'm also glad Patrick is smart to value his health even for after his skating career.
Canada's Patrick Chan focusing on mental game
Maybe I shouldn't be surprised, though I am, that Patrick had no idea how his best performances came about. Most people try to figure it out by examining the situation, the circumstances, the activities leading up to the event including the training, the food consumed, the lucky happenings, etc. Few would think of their mental and emotional state at the time and just before. If they could recreate that state of mind, they would most likely recreate the result. And that state is usually relaxed focus, a positive mood and a total belief in the positive outcome. I hope Patrick has learned the skill to get into it, which is the Zone. Getting into the flow and he will flow flawlessly on ice.
It's right for him not to set a goal he does not fully believe in. He can set up a goal achievable in his mind, like clean performances, instead of thinking about winning and the pressure that comes with it. However, though it's best to leave any resistance triggering thoughts alone, it's not necessary to explicitly exclude the possibility of a very desirable outcome or replacing it with a lower goal. That's why it bothered me that he just wanted to be in the pack. As he wished, he stayed with the pack with mediocre results. If he does not have the conviction of his winning chances, it's then best to not think about it at all but to focus on his goal of clean performances with successful attempts of his jumps. IOW, focusing on the process as oft advocated by 4verchan. However, a conviction of his ability and of winning is even better, if it's a real conviction, not a desperate optimism.
It was very interesting that Takahashi, who had said he wanted both a beautiful performance and winning, could not answer when asked to choose one. A good performance would likely lead to a win but the two goals/results are not equivalent. But one doesn't have to choose. Pick both, or one without rejecting the other.
I'm also glad Patrick is smart to value his health even for after his skating career.
- Joined
- Oct 5, 2015
Thank you for sharing! Can I ask how you were able to attend the press call yesterday?
Absolutely. We've all seen him get into the zone and do spectacularly well. I hope he is able to get into this state for both of his performances at Worlds.
I read the IFS Magazine article in full last night, and while I appreciate his candid answers, some of them still bothered me for reasons similar to what you mentioned above. I tweeted this to him today:
https://twitter.com/PCSkatingFan/status/844567919166029824
Fans and TV commentators may say that it's a necessary thing that Patrick tries to keep up with the pack, but if he does it at the expense of his strengths, is it worth it ? Is Patrick Chan (the skater) still Patrick Chan without his top-notch transitions and skating skills, sacrificed in the name of more quads?
To me, this is similar to Patrick's answer when asked if his comeback has been worthwhile. He still doesn't seem to have a solid answer when asked why he came back or the value of the comback. IMHO he needs to know (in his heart/gut) with conviction and confidence his purpose for skating. This purpose will then guide his decisions and his goals. But without a strong purpose he will be more likely to go with the pack rather than focusing on what he can still contribute to the sport (something he's said he wanted to do).
Just a guess, but if Nathan was asked to choose between a beautiful performance and winning, I think he would choose winning....
Okay, I should have written a blog post about this instead.
Thought I'd dash off a quick response before going to work, and it turned out not so quick...- Joined
- Nov 19, 2010
Vivley, that's why I'm excited that Patrick has decided on his own to be competitive again. I'm happy for him and will support him whichever goal he chooses. His skating skills and artistry are already established and will always be pat of his skating. He will have many years and opportunities to showcase his artistry and amazing skills, but there is only one year left for his greatest competition career goals. For someone as competitive and talented as Patrick, it's not surprising that he would want to give his best to win again, especially for the biggest prize. I'm very glad it's his authentic decision and not due to expectation and pressures from others. And I also hope he has the conviction and commitment but not the attachment to his goal achievements.
To win in today's Mens competitions, multiple quads are a must and a determined Patrick will deliver with as little sacrifice of program performance as possible. Sure, there will be fewer transitional moves but the all important quality will be there even with lesser quantity. I'm excited to see what amazing feats we'll get to see from him. It will likely not be the smoothest journey but it will be a thrilling ride for us to take along with the beautiful skater and great athletes named Patrick Chan.
To win in today's Mens competitions, multiple quads are a must and a determined Patrick will deliver with as little sacrifice of program performance as possible. Sure, there will be fewer transitional moves but the all important quality will be there even with lesser quantity. I'm excited to see what amazing feats we'll get to see from him. It will likely not be the smoothest journey but it will be a thrilling ride for us to take along with the beautiful skater and great athletes named Patrick Chan.
- Joined
- Mar 7, 2015
I don't think I read this exact article linked from this thread before or maybe I missed it. Lots of good stuff for a mind buff like me.
Canada's Patrick Chan focusing on mental game
Maybe I shouldn't be surprised, though I am, that Patrick had no idea how his best performances came about. Most people try to figure it out by examining the situation, the circumstances, the activities leading up to the event including the training, the food consumed, the lucky happenings, etc. Few would think of their mental and emotional state at the time and just before. If they could recreate that state of mind, they would most likely recreate the result. And that state is usually relaxed focus, a positive mood and a total belief in the positive outcome. I hope Patrick has learned the skill to get into it, which is the Zone. Getting into the flow and he will flow flawlessly on ice.
It's right for him not to set a goal he does not fully believe in. He can set up a goal achievable in his mind, like clean performances, instead of thinking about winning and the pressure that comes with it. However, though it's best to leave any resistance triggering thoughts alone, it's not necessary to explicitly exclude the possibility of a very desirable outcome or replacing it with a lower goal. That's why it bothered me that he just wanted to be in the pack. As he wished, he stayed with the pack with mediocre results. If he does not have the conviction of his winning chances, it's then best to not think about it at all but to focus on his goal of clean performances with successful attempts of his jumps. IOW, focusing on the process as oft advocated by 4verchan. However, a conviction of his ability and of winning is even better, if it's a real conviction, not a desperate optimism.
It was very interesting that Takahashi, who had said he wanted both a beautiful performance and winning, could not answer when asked to choose one. A good performance would likely lead to a win but the two goals/results are not equivalent. But one doesn't have to choose. Pick both, or one without rejecting the other.
I'm also glad Patrick is smart to value his health even for after his skating career.
Gosh... i would a lot to say about your comments VB.
Figure skating has a lot in common with performing arts. For instance, once a mistake is made, it is hard to refocus... sometimes Patrick gets back in there.. sometimes he doesn't... same with artists.
So the main target of psychotherapy is to aim at building tools to prepare for The Zone, and to get back in it when one goes out of it.
Here is something... I don't always access the zone... I have been working on this much longer than Patrick (i am older) and I am still not sure what conditions make me access it..... My last concert... very recently. First half of the show : perfectly in communion with music and soul... super Zone achieved... What did I do before? Nothing much. Just focused... Breathing ... embracing the moment living each note. ( a figure skater would live one step, one element at the time or could also relate to the music, one note at the time and its choreography). Intermission came... after it, zone was not there... Performance was affected. it took me 2-3 minutes before getting back in it for the rest of the show... it was flickering for that long... No idea what happened... was it a fluke? However, with what I have learned : avoid self-pressure and judgment, I managed to get back in it after those couple minutes. It flickered out briefly a couple more times but nothing to affect the performance.
After the show, I was upset about it because it hasn't happened in so long. At the same time, if it were an important event for me, it was not as final as a championship may be.
The thing though is that The Zone remains a mystery state. It's not an easy on/off button. So I am not surprised that Patrick says he is not sure what makes him perform best or not. There are many factors. For instance, I think that what happened to me recently is that I fell in love with the piano at the beginning of the concert. At the intermission, I thought, it's so nice to have such a nice piano to play (it's not always the case on tour... trust me!!!) and then, knowing the conditions were so nice, probably disturbed my approach : in the first half, I was discovering each note, each colour, without knowing if the piano had limits or where they were, it made me aware of every detail of the performance, as if things were happening in slow motion, my brain controlling everything perfectly well... in the second half, expectations were there. And that's when it got difficult
But this is not easy to assess or analyze. It takes a long time. What surprises me is that Patrick didn't do this kind of work early on in his career.... especially after Sochi or even in preparation for it.
Young kids who are successful very young tend to create this alternative zone feeling... perhaps Patrick felt like that before Sochi and didn't feel he needed help. Nathan definitely knows how to get there... However, it is very rare that the alternative zone feeling lasts forever. Things get more and more difficult with age and expectations.
It's the second time I use expectations : because it's really the enemy of the zone
you have to be in symbiosis with the performance and not judge... expectations make you evaluate your performance which then makes you behind in time... the brain needs to always be there and ahead... not behind in time... For instance, some performers have told that when they play contemporary (and highly dissonant music) they feel more confident because practically nobody in the audience can hear their mistakes.... this is related also to expectations : audience is not expected to notice mistakes... then performer doubts less and performs with more ease..
Doubt : cannot go there. When there is doubt, there cannot be any zone... that's why the process is more important than the result. The process makes you work and aim for greatness but doesn't specify when or where it will happen.... or even how... as long as you work well, good things will happen... and that's all. The results, like winning, will create expectations, and perhaps doubt. For Patrick, how can he say, i am going to win and be 100% certain of that with a lower base value??? Not happening. And if he did, his brain would reject this, create doubt and bad performances would come in....
What Patrick seems to have done at 4CC is believe that he could win while clean... that's also dangerous because you are imposing conditions on your performance. If that condition is not met, even if it's a slight turn out on a combo, the rest of the performance may be altered.
If I were Patrick Chan, I would know how to answer that question Daisuke couldn't answer...
Patrick wants to skate well.... that's all... the rest is up to the others. He can only control what he does and not what the others do. Would he be happy if he made mistakes but everyone else made more? Ask Yuzuru if he is happy about his performance at Sochi.... he is surely happy he won... but not about his skating...
I want Patrick to experience pride that comes from the humblest place. Knowing that you work hard and well, and perform to your abilities, without any other agenda than just skating for the love of it, to share his artistry with the world.. from there can come the best performances, and the right kind of pride, the one based on genuine, humble, soulful dedication.
As I said, too many things in my head about this topic and not much time to edit this... so maybe I will need to clarify this but yeah.... it's not surprising to me that Patrick is still looking and searching... It's a very long process.... and he is very young. It takes a life time sometimes to get there on a regular basis... the good news though, is that if he does believe in the process he is going through, it will get easier and easier to access the mental state needed to perform to his ability.
The main difference between a pianist for instance, and a skater... I am not including tricks that i can only land 80% of the time.... let alone 95% of the time... At my level, everything on the page is mastered. There is NO DOUBT ever.
Skaters, even the top ones, have risky elements. Those risky elements will create doubt. Performing with doubt and reaching the zone is almost incompatible. That is why we see performances unravel after a fall or a jump landed against all odds.... that is why some skaters have the reputation of "if she/he lands the first jump, it will go very well for them (i .e Josée Chouinard) .... If we look at Patrick, it's not so much the first success that will build confidence... it's mostly the first mistake that makes him doubt afterwards.... Sochi was the perfect example for that... After two fabulous quads, a mistake came in, and then he doubled jumps.... so one misstep and he no longer trusted.
okok i quit for now... as I said, i am fascinated by the parallel with performing artists and figure skaters and i could talk a lot about this..
All i hope for Patrick is that he finds his inner peace.
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