2017 Worlds Free Dance

[Mathman]

I can't fault the placements for the free dance. Papadakis and Cizeron were the clear winners. Virtue and Moir were not in danger of losing second. Bobrova and Soloviev edged out Shibutani and Shibutani because of the extended lift deduction. (You could see that Bobrova was not pleased with their performance by her facial expression and body language as she left the ice.)

Cappellini and Lanotte were the most enjoyable to me, but I can't object to their placement. I felt terrible for Chock and Bates and for Hubbell and Donohue. In turn, the bronze medal was within their grasp, and in an eye-blink it skittered away. Ice dancing is a beautiful sport but a cruel one.

 

[sarama]

found it : kiss and cry after the free at WTT in

It was an iconic moment... I kind of miss that candid version of Scott

 

[Mango]

Re your comment on Weaver's FD costume - did she do any research at all on the music the team used for the FD? This piece by Rodrigo is about his anguish over losing his baby, it is a very sad story and she comes out wearing a red and gold costume???? Not what I would wear if I were in mourning.

She wore black then some grey ombre costumes last season for Bitter Earth and it got them no brownie points so why bother changing the colour of your dress?

 

[bramweld]

The scoring system just doesn't make any sense to me. Bobrova and Soloviev don't dance but just simply do very fast big, synchronized, very dramatic skating. They have good lines but IMHO their postures and interpretation are simply wanting. I cannot understand it period. Even if all teams from 3 - 9 earned the same TES score, how could such a sloppy team score higher than say C/L in the FD? Doesn't PCS count for anything? Even B/S knew from their expressions after the FD that it wasn't a good skate. How could so many teams come to worlds and get practically the same score, when during the entire season they were scoring 3 - 5 points more than their rivals? It just doesn't make sense. If your scoring system can only separate the cream of the crop from the rest, it needs to be addressed. It's a disgrace, I can't even. I hope the other teams take notice and work doubly hard to set themselves apart. This element of the championships was a low point for me.

 

[ancientpeas]

I have a question about choreography to the pas de deux from the Nutcracker. It seemed like the couples who tried it wasted some of the music. Do ice dance teams ever try the famous ballet jump lift that end with the lady lowered face down?

I'm sure T/T did it twice. I'm sure I saw it at least once and the other time the camera was slightly behind them so I'm not 100% sure. I love that lift in Nutcracker. I know it's kind of cliche but I love it. I don't remember the Italia 2 team doing it but then I was hopeless distracted by the giant musical notes on her costume.

 

[ancientpeas]

It was an iconic moment... I kind of miss that candid version of Scott

Ah.. but with age he seems to have gained wisdom. I expected some kind of grumpiness after the FD and grumpy Scott is a man with a mouth but instead he was all "Tessa's such a great partner she saved my butt.." He did say something about dressing up like a giant blueberry at NHK this year.

Also when I watched the NHK gala (the only gala I watched this year because of the Mascots) I was all frowny because he refused to high-five the mascots (so did Cizeron but I instantly forgave him because..he's French. The French are way too cool for mascots) but then I was you tubing and I saw this interview with them from a few years ago when he confessed he has a mascot phobia. So there you go.. he apparently feels dressing in blue makes him a blueberry and he's afraid of mascots.

 

[ancientpeas]

Re your comment on Weaver's FD costume - did she do any research at all on the music the team used for the FD? This piece by Rodrigo is about his anguish over losing his baby, it is a very sad story and she comes out wearing a red and gold costume???? Not what I would wear if I were in mourning.

I saw her interview with Charlie White (I was bored this afternoon) and they said the song was about a man going blind. I think the red was because of the Spanish sound of it. I'm actually glad she didn't wear black or blue. Way too much black and blue in ID these days.

 

[reneerose]

I saw her interview with Charlie White (I was bored this afternoon) and they said the song was about a man going blind. I think the red was because of the Spanish sound of it. I'm actually glad she didn't wear black or blue. Way too much black and blue in ID these days.

I'm glad Kaitlyn wore the colouring of the dress she wore, but yeah she has the story behind the music all wrong. I was Googling Concierto de Aranjuez and an article by The Guardian states that it is actually about the composer Rodrigo's (he was almost blind after having diphtheria) child who was stillborn and he didn't know if his wife was going to live or die so he composed the adagio during that time.... It's one of my favourite pieces of music. My history lesson for the day.

 

[NanaPat]

I'm glad Kaitlyn wore the colouring of the dress she wore, but yeah she has the story behind the music all wrong. I was Googling Concierto de Aranjuez and an article by The Guardian states that it is actually about the composer Rodrigo's (he was almost blind after having diphtheria) child who was stillborn and he didn't know if his wife was going to live or die so he composed the adagio during that time.... It's one of my favourite pieces of music. My history lesson for the day.

I found an article in "classical guitar" that said that story is a myth. They quote some letters from Rodrigo to support their point of view. apparently the miscarriage happened several months after the concerto was written.

According to them, the concerto is about a garden and the sound of nature.

Who to believe?

 

[TontoK]

Re your comment on Weaver's FD costume - did she do any research at all on the music the team used for the FD? This piece by Rodrigo is about his anguish over losing his baby, it is a very sad story and she comes out wearing a red and gold costume???? Not what I would wear if I were in mourning.

Deleted a post that was made in exasperation. I decided it was unnecessarily snarky.

For the record, it was not complementary of the artistic direction of this team.

 

[reneerose]

I found an article in "classical guitar" that said that story is a myth. They quote some letters from Rodrigo to support their point of view. apparently the miscarriage happened several months after the concerto was written.

According to them, the concerto is about a garden and the sound of nature.

Who to believe?

Wow....I guess The Guardian is into mythology. Thanks for that insight!

 

[sarama]

Ah.. but with age he seems to have gained wisdom.

Yes, he really seems all grown up now
It's not a bad thing because he recieved a lot of criticism for saying certain things, but in all honesty I don't think he was ever rude, and I definitely appreciated hearing his unfiltered thoughts. Same goes for Patrick... did they attend together a course for not saying the first thing that comes into their minds :rofl2:?

 

[SnowWhite]

I'm so happy for Gabriella and Guillaume. They put out their best FD after developing it all year, coming through with the artistry, the emotional resonance, the musical and storyline meaning, and the technical brilliance that sets them apart from everyone else, and I mean everyone else. It all came together for them, and I'm so happy about that. I agree with others that it may be better for them next year not to go in as 3-time straight world champions.

But, on another front ...I wish I could feel differently or at least see both sides, but I, er, have trouble with that. I've never thought there was much fairness in an Olympic gold medalist returning so they can win another gold medal. I wasn't really following FS, but even so I felt that way retrospectively as far back as Katarina Witt in 1988. You've reached the pinnacle, why do you need another one? (I know, the thrill of competition, of high achievement...) If anyone has information or an argument for me, I'd welcome the chance to hear it.

Now, I believe Sandra Bezic when she said that Tessa and Scott have come back because they want to be better artists, and that competition is the way they're able to push themselves. At least I definitely believe it about Tessa. I can't quite shake the suspicion that Scott wants to prove once and for all that he can win more than Charlie White. Well, he's proved it now. V/M are three-time world champs. ***

And if the reason to come back is to become better artists, I think they've achieved it. In a spirit of generosity, why not now give other world-class skaters a chance, not to mention their teammates, Weaver and Poje? I know it's tough to have poured all your love and effort into a sport and then be at the peak in your twenties and then have to figure out how to move on. It would have been gallant, in addition to being probably a harder path.

*** footnote: I so respect Meryl and Charlie for being able to let go of that rivalry and create other lives for themselves, but it can't have been easy.)

So they should have retired at 20 and 22 when they won the gold? They missed competing, they couldn't imagine watching the Olympics from home, they felt they could still be competitive, and they wanted it enough to commit to training to that level again, so they decided to come back. They've been very clear that they came back to win at the Olympics again, not just to be better artists. What they have said is that they wouldn't come back to do the same things again and if they're going to compete, they want to grow as athletes and artists.

I really do not understand the unfairness thing. To be the best, they had to beat the teams who were on top. They won in Vancouver because they were the best team there, not because everyone else just decided it should be their turn. How is it unfair that other teams have to do the same? If you want to win, you earn it. That's fair. Was Alexandre Bilodeau being unfair when he competed in moguls in Sochi after winning in Vancouver? Of course not, and his teammate would have won if he wasn't there. An athlete has every right to keep competing as long as they are able, regardless of how much success they have. If they don't keep improving, they won't keep winning. Successful people aren't selfish if they want to keep working for more success.

And I don't really see training to win the Olympics again as taking the easy way out. Both paths have different types of challenges.

And I seriously don't think that Scott is currently motivated by anything to do with Charlie. Did you see him interviewing them? They all get along great. I don't think that Scott needs to focus on Charlie to be a motivated competitive athlete.

They do it out of love for sport and personal glory. And both are very valid motives. Why would they have to stop doing what they love to give other athletes a chance? For example, no one asked Usain Bolt or Michael Phelps to leave their sport, no one asks Serena Williams and Roger Federer to retire just in order to give a chance to younger players, and they have been dominating their sports for much more time than V/M. Why do it with Tessa and Scott? In my opinion, it makes no sense, and it's extremely unfair from our part (fans) to tell someone when to go away.

Well, Scott is Tessa's lifelong partner, there would be no one else with whom she would return to the sport. I agree that Tessa does so genuinely for developing her artistic side more. Scott does it because Tessa is doing it and who would say no to the possibility of returning to something you like having more experience and a better perspective? I doubt his mentality is focused on overcoming Charlie, and even if he does, I don't think that's the biggest reason for his return, maybe, I don't know, he just simply loves this sport.

This

 

[SnowWhite]

Having watched a bit of CBC's coverage they said that Tessa said "Aren't you being dramatic?" to Scott right after he got back into the dance after the stumble. These two are precious.

Watching the press conference was so funny because there was Cizeron being all arty and french in the best possible ways and Maia and Alex being Maia and Alex (careful, well spoken, very cautious) and Tessa answering thoughtfully and Scott joking around and very much being in charge of it all.

Scott in press conferences is so entertaining. He always makes the other skaters laugh. And did you see the short program presser? The whole interaction with the question about their 20 years as partners was so cute and funnny, and then he got all emotional. It was so sweet.

I saw the CBC coverage and it made me laugh so hard when they said that! It makes me wonder what skaters say to each other during performances...it'd be interesting to put a microphone on and hear what they have to say... especially Scott

Scott mic'd up would be amazing. Much better than when they do it for NHL players.

found it : kiss and cry after the free at WTT in

After the team won when they were all in the KnC, you could here him in the background saying "I love this event now." And Meagan and Eric were both saying "We love this event". I just find too funny.

It was an iconic moment... I kind of miss that candid version of Scott

I love Scott's lack of filter. Though I'm sure it's improved with age. He's still pretty entertaining though, especially in press.

 

[moon]

The scoring system just doesn't make any sense to me. Bobrova and Soloviev don't dance but just simply do very fast big, synchronized, very dramatic skating. They have good lines but IMHO their postures and interpretation are simply wanting. I cannot understand it period. Even if all teams from 3 - 9 earned the same TES score, how could such a sloppy team score higher than say C/L in the FD? Doesn't PCS count for anything? Even B/S knew from their expressions after the FD that it wasn't a good skate. How could so many teams come to worlds and get practically the same score, when during the entire season they were scoring 3 - 5 points more than their rivals? It just doesn't make sense. If your scoring system can only separate the cream of the crop from the rest, it needs to be addressed. It's a disgrace, I can't even. I hope the other teams take notice and work doubly hard to set themselves apart. This element of the championships was a low point for me.

It isnt the scoring system. It is the the corruption behind the boards as I have always said. Russia desperately needed both their teams placements to add up to no more than 13 in order to have two teams next year. I hope that people can see how obvious it is in this circumstance that B/S were given marks that they just did not deserve. I know judges and the ISU read this board. The more we complain maybe something will eventually be done about the the effect of deals being made between countries. BTW I am not implying that it is just Russia that gets involved in this. Every country at Worlds has a lot on the line and wants as many of their athletes competing next year at Worlds and at the Olympics. It becomes a game predicting where teams will place in order to maximize spots. Nothing to do with their skating unfortunately. My heart goes out to the athletes because they know exactly what is going on.

 

[madison]

It isnt the scoring system. It is the the corruption behind the boards as I have always said. Russia desperately needed both their teams placements to add up to no more than 13 in order to have two teams next year. I hope that people can see how obvious it is in this circumstance that B/S were given marks that they just did not deserve. I know judges and the ISU read this board. The more we complain maybe something will eventually be done about the the effect of deals being made between countries. BTW I am not implying that it is just Russia that gets involved in this. Every country at Worlds has a lot on the line and wants as many of their athletes competing next year at Worlds and at the Olympics. It becomes a game predicting where teams will place in order to maximize spots. Nothing to do with their skating unfortunately. My heart goes out to the athletes because they know exactly what is going on.

Oh, come on!!! Why do you think B/S didn't deserve the marks and the place (5th overall) they got?
C/L are dull and average skaters
C/B and H/D had visible mistake, and we all know that this is serious for ice dance.
And to be honest, if Russia would have tried to influence this one, more than sure they would have 3 spots now.... so what's the logic?
My overall impression coincides with the judging here: there are 2 teams in front of the others, and the rest of the field with small qualitative difference between them, depending on the day .

 

[La Rhumba]

About the situation with B/S, I have to say I was honestly surprised they received so much backlash after their performance. I was watching the Russian coverage and the commentators didn't talk at all during the performance, and didn't overpraise B/S afterwards, so I got a chance to make my own opinion and, barring some small mistakes, I thought they were great overall.

However, after watching the British Eurosport (and I have to laugh that the entire season one of the commentators has been thinking that the exit from the twizzles is a mistake (it's part of their choreography)), you'd really think there was some conspiracy happening. Maybe there is, I don't know Scores always confuse me, so I can only talk about them in comparison to the scores of the others, but I thought B/S were on the same level as the teams that received similar scores. I quite like this dance for them and I do not dislike the dances of the other teams, everyone made some mistakes, and they were all around the same level. I do not see how they were that much worse (and I watched commenting in some other languages as well, they seemed to more or less like their performance).

Bottom line, I don't see how B/S were that much worse than other teams with similar points (whether or not you like their dance is a different issue; and hey, maybe there is some conspiracy going on), and I continue to be fascinated by how much my opinion (and the others') is influenced by the commentators

Without even checking YT, (as I didn't buy a ES subscription this year) I knew you were talking about Simon Reed. He's made this mistake before with Coomes & Buckland's​ twizzles.

I really don't think people should place too much important on what BES commentators say, I see people refer to them all the time, from many different countries, why, I don't know?

For Worlds it was the usual team of Simon Reed and Chris Howarth. Though Simon has been commentating on Skating since the early 80s and Torvill & Dean, on UK commercial channel ITV, before Eurosport, he is not a Skating expert in any way, in terms of the technicalities, and these days the season is intense with GPs and other events, and he doesn't keep up with all the news. I often felt he had no idea of the latest happenings in the skating world, and just turns up for a few events per year. Nowadays he never covers Euros or any events that clash with the Tennis calendar, as that is his main sport now.

As for Chris Howarth, he was a Figure Skater in the early 80s, (now Coach in America) and whilst excellent on the technical side of Singles, Ice Dance intricacies are not his speciality. And as Dance now is so technical, I wouldn't regard anything that either of them say as more than personal opinion and preference. Perfectly fine, but I do think a Dance expert in the Commentary booth would be preferable IMO.

Robin Cousins was on BBC and whilst I respect his opinion, and he is obviously a legend of FS, he stated that Hubbell/Donohue's TES was not solely down to the fall, and their technical difficulty in the FD was below Shibs and the other couples in the crowded 3-7 range. I tweeted him to disagree. They scored 47 TES with a zero element. Add a possible 8 for Level 4 twizzles with good GOE and a Bronze was definitely possible. Ofcourse Robin was in a TV studio in Manchester watching the feed. Don't know if BES were actually in Helsinki. (They often aren't live at the event). It seems to me you need to have a computer feed to see the Levels awarded to fully understand the scores in Dance now, and what the Deductions are for.

 

[Ares]

I can't fault the placements for the free dance. Papadakis and Cizeron were the clear winners. Virtue and Moir were not in danger of losing second. Bobrova and Soloviev edged out Shibutani and Shibutani because of the extended lift deduction. (You could see that Bobrova was not pleased with their performance by her facial expression and body language as she left the ice.)

Cappellini and Lanotte were the most enjoyable to me, but I can't object to their placement. I felt terrible for Chock and Bates and for Hubbell and Donohue. In turn, the bronze medal was within their grasp, and in an eye-blink it skittered away. Ice dancing is a beautiful sport but a cruel one.

I literally cried out when Zachary fell on his twizzle

 

[coldblueeyes]

It isnt the scoring system. It is the the corruption behind the boards as I have always said. Russia desperately needed both their teams placements to add up to no more than 13 in order to have two teams next year. I hope that people can see how obvious it is in this circumstance that B/S were given marks that they just did not deserve. I know judges and the ISU read this board. The more we complain maybe something will eventually be done about the the effect of deals being made between countries. BTW I am not implying that it is just Russia that gets involved in this. Every country at Worlds has a lot on the line and wants as many of their athletes competing next year at Worlds and at the Olympics. It becomes a game predicting where teams will place in order to maximize spots. Nothing to do with their skating unfortunately. My heart goes out to the athletes because they know exactly what is going on.

This statement makes zero sense. If Russia had any hold over the judges at Worlds, or the tech panel for that matter, they'd have put their teams way up the standings in the SD already, especially B/S, who'd need to stay in the top five to guarantee a chance at advancing more. Their FD didn't score anything over what they've scored three or four times this season, and I don't see a reason to cry lobbying or cheating. After a while it starts to smell like 'not your favorites won and you don't like it'. Get over it.

 

[Ares]

Just read an interesting comment by Bestemianova afte the SD, before the FD: she thinks that, if both Russian couples get the scores they deserve to get, especially S/B, they will get a third spot for the Olympics.
Someone didn't do the maths accordingly, and Bestemianova's dream was not fulfilled.

Lol. Bestemianova as deluded as always She also insinuated that Stepanova / Bukin should win medals at the Europeans IIRC.