Starr is a yes. Kaitlyn is a no. She was 14th with a 146. They don’t really look at JGP placements. They normally offer the next slot to the highest scoring age eligible lady. That Amber. And yes, she was much worse than the ladies in junior. It’s just a strange tradition.
2018 US Championships Sr. Ladies FS
- Thread starter dorispulaski
- Start date
Starr is a yes. Kaitlyn is a no. She was 14th with a 146. They don’t really look at JGP placements. They normally offer the next slot to the highest scoring age eligible lady. That Amber. And yes, she was much worse than the ladies in junior. It’s just a strange tradition.
- Joined
- Jan 23, 2009
I agree that there's been some, um, heated comments here about Wagner that weren't all deserved and certainly partly came from a place of personal dislike of her as a person... buuuuut I don't necessarily disagree with the junior skaters comment? Half the Japanese girls who just came up from juniors have better ice coverage than Wagner and the other half have more consistent jumps. Wagner has a lot of projection and should be rewarded for it and I wish (oh how I wish) female skaters of her age winning big events were the norm rather than the exception, but Wagner shouldn't be getting high PCS just for being a good performer.
Yeah, I don't like how our sport is turning into gymnastics. Get your gold medal at age 16, quickly, before puberty takes you
- Joined
- Oct 9, 2011
I don't think Polina had enough opportunity to prove herself to the international judges due to her time away and not being in regular competition.....I think she still has lots of unrealized potential, she's a beautiful skater. Bradie I don't think has Polina's artistry level yet....
- Joined
- Mar 19, 2004
Why? Ashley’s sense of entitlement probably. Reflects badly on the fed. Reflects badly on Team USA. And she didn’t perform well this year. I guess they had enough, and finally put their foot down.
- Joined
- Apr 16, 2006
Yeah, seriously. Also, I'm pretty sure Karen would get higher levels on SS and higher GOE on spins than Ashley, and her GOE on landed, non-UR jumps is on par if not better (especially her amazing lutz when clean). Ashley is actually just as prone to UR. Sending the podium finishers will be the sensible thing to do. Come on, USFSA. Don't embarrass yourselves for the second time.
Also, Ashley's sense of entitlement is extremely out of place. Not only is it uncalled for, but it is not at all fit for an Olympic skater. Look at Yuna Kim/Mao Asada/Michelle Kwan, etc. Ashley has not half the humility they do, and she hasn't accomplished half as much. Seeing her face at her (mostly well-deserved and even generous) scores is seriously a spectacle. And not a pleasant one.
- Joined
- Dec 5, 2015
It is not about the desired result. I have no desired result. It is just that both of them have been so weak. Neither deserves to go the Olympics right now. Make them improve. As I mentioned before, Russia does this every year at European Championships. It makes those girls work hard. Look at how successful their skaters are...
- Joined
- Dec 29, 2013
Well that’s where you kind of missed my point. I was suggesting that Karen uses her Skating Skills and Transitions to propel her other components. Her Choreography and Performance are not only technically enhanced by those skills but create a very brilliant musical interpretation that is equally effective as Ashley. Yes...I think Karen is on equal footing as Ashley when it comes to Interpretation going into any event and the performance of the night should determine the result. Actually Mariah is a better comparison with Ashley and I doubt you would be interested in my opinion on that
I wouldn’t give Ashley a guaranteed edge as you seem to be suggesting I should and not especially based on these two performances. Most certainly in the SP
- Joined
- Oct 31, 2014
The situation is totally different. Polina was a way better skater than Bradie, but at that time, Gracie who had a great potential was around. I wonder if Gracie were still in competition, Bradie could be suddenly held up. However, given the scores and placement at Nationals, USFSA seems to change the attitude towards consistent skaters with meh SS and package.
You are kidding right? It was the ultimate PR nightmare. Twitter exploded. Some Asian reporters wrote articles about how racist it was. NBC has to switch up their coverage of opening and closing ceremonies. I noticed that in some shots they would name each of the skaters like Jason and Polina, but completely ignore Ashley’s existence. They were defending themselves for weeks. It was a horrible nightmare.
If I were USFS, I wouldn’t do this again. They have Bradie. Just focus on her and pivot. Otherwise the next three weeks will be all about poor little Karen and how evil USFS was to take away her dream.
- Joined
- Feb 19, 2006
Well that’s where you kind of missed my point. I was suggesting that Karen uses her Skating Skills and Transitions to propel her other components. Her Choreography and Performance are not only technically enhanced by those skills but create a very brilliant musical interpretation that is equally effective as Ashley. Yes...I think Karen is on equal footing as Ashley when it comes to Interpretation going into any event and the performance of the night should determine the result. Actually Mariah is a better comparison with Ashley and I doubt you would be interested in my opinion on that
I wouldn’t give Ashley a guaranteed edge as you seem to be suggesting I should and not especially based on these two performances. Especially in the SP
Oh, I don’t suggest you should. I’m suggesting I would. And the international judges do.
There’s that word again.
Snark not directed at you.
- Joined
- Oct 21, 2013
Some of those carrots on Karen were wrongly called. The tech caller was very lenient on a lot of skaters but not on Karen. I think he should be investigated. Did u see the medal ceremony, it seems like the tech specialist knows Ashley when he was congratulating her.
This is her breakthrough season, she has no reputation to speak of. International judges are just being introduced to her since she didn't exactly turn senior with the immediate hype as a junior the Russian girls all have. Not every skater gets instant PCS. The more she performs like she has so far the more the judges will warm up to her and her marks will go up. Her programs are COP friendly more then any other American lady and of course being US #1 will help. She just needs to go out there and keep doing what she's doing, while growing as a skater.
- Joined
- Dec 21, 2014
Did we watch the same musical? Ellen was a very sympathetic character. In fact in the song "Now that I've seen her." She talks about how she never wanted this, doesn't hate Kim, but will fight for her husband. Unless refusing Kim's demand that she take Tam to America is what you mean? I actually think that song would make a pretty exhibition.
Chen vs. Wagner (Part 2/3)
Now we consider spins. The long story short is that despite exceeding or equalling Chen's levels on every spin, Wagner still lower scores than Chen on every single spin.
Short Program
I'm going to list Wagner's spin first, then Chen's spin, then the margin by which Chen outscored Wagner.
Flying Spin: L4 Sit vs. L3 Camel: Chen +0.02
Change-foot Spin: L4 Combo vs. L3 Combo: Chen +0.14
Layback Spin: L4 vs. L4: Chen +0.86
Long Program
Flying Spin: L3 Change-foot Combo vs. L3 Change-foot Combo: Chen +0.14
Change-foot Spin: L4 Combo vs. L4 Combo: Chen +0.79
Misc. Spin: L4 Flying Sit vs. L4 Layback: Chen +0.27
In these spins, Wagner's base values are 1 pt higher than Chen's base values. However, due to higher GOE, Chen received the higher marks for her spins (+2.22). This means that Chen's GOEs are 3+ points higher than Wagner's. While one can argue that Chen's technique is better (its true that her spins are faster and tighter) there are still several suspicious marks which I call attention to:
1. Layback Spin, Short Program: Chen's GOE was almost 1 point higher than Wagner's. I dont care how fast you're spinning, the gap separating their GOEs is ridiculous.
2. Changefoot Spin, Free Program: Similar situation here with another ridiculously high GOE for Chen.
3. Changefoot Spin, Short Program: Despite Wagner's spin receiving a higher level (which is a .5 base value advantage), Chen received a higher mark for her L3 spin than for Wagner's L4 spin.
Based on these marks, I think the picture is emerging that Chen's marks were at least slightly inflated.
Now we consider spins. The long story short is that despite exceeding or equalling Chen's levels on every spin, Wagner still lower scores than Chen on every single spin.
Short Program
I'm going to list Wagner's spin first, then Chen's spin, then the margin by which Chen outscored Wagner.
Flying Spin: L4 Sit vs. L3 Camel: Chen +0.02
Change-foot Spin: L4 Combo vs. L3 Combo: Chen +0.14
Layback Spin: L4 vs. L4: Chen +0.86
Long Program
Flying Spin: L3 Change-foot Combo vs. L3 Change-foot Combo: Chen +0.14
Change-foot Spin: L4 Combo vs. L4 Combo: Chen +0.79
Misc. Spin: L4 Flying Sit vs. L4 Layback: Chen +0.27
In these spins, Wagner's base values are 1 pt higher than Chen's base values. However, due to higher GOE, Chen received the higher marks for her spins (+2.22). This means that Chen's GOEs are 3+ points higher than Wagner's. While one can argue that Chen's technique is better (its true that her spins are faster and tighter) there are still several suspicious marks which I call attention to:
1. Layback Spin, Short Program: Chen's GOE was almost 1 point higher than Wagner's. I dont care how fast you're spinning, the gap separating their GOEs is ridiculous.
2. Changefoot Spin, Free Program: Similar situation here with another ridiculously high GOE for Chen.
3. Changefoot Spin, Short Program: Despite Wagner's spin receiving a higher level (which is a .5 base value advantage), Chen received a higher mark for her L3 spin than for Wagner's L4 spin.
Based on these marks, I think the picture is emerging that Chen's marks were at least slightly inflated.
- Joined
- Nov 8, 2014
Gymnastics is not at all like this anymore. Used to be in the 70s maybe, but the average age of the gymnasts competing in the AA in 2016 was roughly 20 and 3 months.
- Joined
- Jan 14, 2014
That's not the case in gymnastics anymore. Simone Biles was 19 when she won the Olympics, and she had won the previous 3 world championships. The average age of the US women's team was 19.2 in 2016. Laurie Hernandez was the only 16-year-old on the team. None of the individual 2016 Olympic champions were 16. I don't want to assume anything, but you sound like a once every 4 years gymnastics fan.
- Joined
- Oct 23, 2005
Well Pooja and Ting would be her competition right(Alysa isn't old enough, and the lower junior finishers really weren't any better than Amber)?
I read somewhere that Pooja doesn't have the minimum scores. So Amber vs. Ting for the second spot?
- Joined
- Apr 16, 2006
Yeah. A lot of Ashley's URs were not called. I could see them in real-time, but please feel free to post slo-mo or screen shots here to prove me wrong. Meanwhile it is only Karen's first 3T I saw a UR issue with, the 3S in 2A-3S was borderline and the solo 3S downgraded to 2S was quite harsh...
- Joined
- Dec 5, 2015
Yeah, seriously. Also, I'm pretty sure Karen would get higher levels on SS and higher GOE on spins than Ashley, and her GOE on landed, non-UR jumps is on par if not better (especially her amazing lutz when clean). Ashley is actually just as prone to UR. Sending the podium finishers will be the sensible thing to do. Come on, USFSA. Don't embarrass yourselves for the second time.
Previous competitions have not shown that result... but why not see if they will this year. Karen would work to improve her under-rotations / pops. She needs too. She has never won a medal on the Grand Prix. She has been sent to two competitions every year for the last three years. She needs to address her problems. A 4CC fight would force her team to address these problems. Her combination 3Lz+3T is never rotated, not even in practice. Ashley rotates in practice, at least. I like Karen. She has potential but make her live up to it.
- Joined
- Oct 26, 2016
I just want to say how sad it is that all 5 of the top US finishers would have struggled mightily to just make the junior grand prix final =/
