2018 US Championships Sr. Ladies FS

[deneuved]

Can anyone actually explain the selection criteria of the US federation for the Olympics to me?

 

[Crossover]

The other thing that is different is that then Ashley was a legit medal threat. She'd scored and placed pretty well over the preceding season. When USFSA picked Ashley for Sochi, they were preserving a medal opportunity.

Throwing no shade to her fans, but nobody really thinks Ashley is a medal contender this time. The argument is over which of two girls should be sent, when Top 10 would be the highest reasonable result for either one of them?

Why did you quote my post although I haven't said a single thing about Ashley in the specific post in response to jenaj?

Unless your post is related to Polina and Bradie or Gracie, I don't find the reason from your post.

 

[lavender]

i wish they would do like russia and let ashley and karen got to 4cc and duke it out there for the spot. Ashley had the better gp season, and karen had the better nationals. Higher place at 4cc takes the spot.

ita...

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

I just want to say how sad it is that all 5 of the top US finishers would have struggled mightily to just make the junior grand prix final =/

That’s no insult. There is a good chance that the girls from JGPF could sneak on to the Olympic podium if they were allowed to compete. That’s no exaggeration.

 

[NAOTMAA]

Karen gets called for under-rotations all the time in international competition. The ice-network commentators saw those under-rotations even before they were called. They were there. Tech caller was a bit lenient on Mirai but I don't think he was on other skaters. Karen doesn't just perform like this. She practices like this. She is so talented. She needs to improve before it is too late.

someone in the general US ladies thread said Karen barely acknowledges any ur problem with her 3-3. If that's true then it doesn't bode well for Karen't future. The US judges were right to mark her urs and not ignore them even if they do others. If they were extra harsh on her it was clearly done out of love (they put her on the top 3 at nationals here despite the major issue after all!) It was some much needed tough love from a federation that clearly likes her and sees far more great potential in her for the future.

 

[*~RussianBleux~*]

How could Kaitlyn not wear this dress? It is stunning!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYSxQB_YmS8&t=345s

 

[TCAngel18]

That’s no insult. There is a good chance that the girls from JGPF could sneak on to the Olympic podium if they were allowed to compete. That’s no exaggeration.

Especially Kostornaia!

 

[frida80]

Is anyone else worried that only Bradie & Mirai really seemed to bring it?
Karen, Ashley & Mariah all looked as though they’d either failed to taper, were skating through Mono or were coming back from injury...that’s...not exactly good.

Going by the selection criteria, I’d be wanting a verification comp for the last three to choose the 3rd spot. None of these ladies stand out IMO, except (and I’m sorry to pull a ‘14 again) Ashley; more consistency, experience, plus she’s got an actual excuse of having needed time off of the ice. In saying that, if it’s revealed that Karen is actually legit sick (like, flu, etc) then I reckon the edge should go to her for peaking at the right moments.

And then, turn attention maybe to an importation of Russian juniors for future generations...

Bradie came into this with a goal. Go to the Olympics. They made a plan and stuck with it. Karen switched her programs over and over. Ashley switched too. That’s what happens in the end.

 

[brightphoton]

Why do athletes have to be well into their 20s to earn your respect?

Frankly, I don't care about gymnastics -- if they want to run their athletes bodies into the ground before they graduate high school, and toss them aside for the newest shiny prepubescent girl, that's their choice.

I want figure skating to be a sport in which athletes can have a career. They can give us years and years of performances and memories. I want a sport of Michelle Kwans, not Tara Lipinskis.

 

[reneerose]

Can anyone actually explain the selection criteria of the US federation for the Olympics to me?

I think this Olympic cycle it's a mystery. This might be a better question to ask tomorrow after 5am Pacific time. It was asked at the ladies presser if they thought the selection should be made based on results of the Nationals vs overall past competition history/skater's body of work. The ladies all gave pretty diplomatic answers and Mirai said it was a "tough question". All 3 of them I thought were being put on the spot by the reporter who asked it.

But if you are asking overall, how the slots are given, I read a good article tonight about that: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Figure_skating_at_the_2018_Winter_Olympics_%E2%80%93_Qualification

 

[readernick]

This is the biggest part of the technical marks, and the biggest disparity in scores is also revealed here. For the sake of conserving space, I'll only list the jumps that I felt were judged unfairly towards Chen.

Short Program

Triple triple: Wagner did 3F3T<, Chen did 3Lz3T<. While Wagner received -1.9 GOE, Chen only got -1.4 GOE. Why? Both were underrotated, and I dont see a reason why Chen's underrotation was better than Wagners.

Long Program

Triple Triple: Wagner did 3F3T, Chen did 3Lz3T<. Wagner only received +0.70 GOE, Chen got away with a -0.50 GOE. I don't think I need to explain this any more; Wagner should have gotten at least +1, Chen should have gotten at least -1.

Lutz: Both underrotated. However, Wagner had -1.6 GOE, Chen had -0.70 GOE.

tl;dr Chen's underrotations were penalized much less severely than Wagners.

So in conclusion, I think Chen should have been scored 2-3 pts lower and Wagner 2-3 pts higher. I think this difference is more than just subjective opinions that come with judging in figure skating. Although I respect both for being amazing, talented skaters, I think there was something suspiciously off with the judging tonight.

Yes, the judges were obviously gifting Chen with GOE's. They wanted her to be sent. BV of their programs was exactly the same in the short and Ashley's was higher in the free. They want to send a new face to the Olympics. Frankly, I think Mariah Bell would be a better choice. She doesn't under rotate nearly as much as Karen and she has the correct edge on all of her jumps. Karen is a beautiful spinner though. She deserves higher GOE 's in spins.

 

[TontoK]

Christine Brennan playing to the "Ashley wuz robbed" crowd in a USA Today column.

This will help calm things down, for sure.

 

[PyeongChang2018]

I'm a 4 year fan of gymnastics. But I remember gymnastics regularly have "ooops birth certificate hehehe" and "they're not really 18" scandals. I remember one American team all retroactively got medals because they found out a team fudged ages.

Our gymnastics team was pretty young too. I remember there was a bit of a ballyhoo because Ally was the grandma of the team at age 22. Simone Biles was also pretty young in Brazil. Is she still competing?

Not to mention, 20 and 3 months? That's apparently REALLY old now

Since the early 90s, I believe there have only been two proven age falsifications, one for North Korea and one for China. Beijing 2008 had another suspicious one. You are speaking about the 2000 Sydney American team, yes.

Aly was the oldest of the team at 22, and the youngest was Laurie Hernandez at 16. Outside of Laurie, the next youngest were Simone and Madison Kocian at 19.

I'm not saying 20 years and 3 months is old, but it's older than 16 by a considerable amount! There are elite gymnasts competing at the Olympics in their 30s and Oksana Chusovitina is 42 and still going strong, having been to seven Olympic Games.

 

[kwanfan4]

Whoa. Ashley looks salty.

She should have looked salty when she was sent to the O's instead of Mirai! She is always running her mouth about something which is why I don't care for her. She has a funky atitude.

 

[readernick]

Especially Kostornaia!

I love her! She is so different to Eteri's other skaters. Polina T is pretty wonderful too but she has been having some consistency issues.

 

[*~RussianBleux~*]

I think Ting would be fantastic for JW. But botching her SP narrowly took away that chance. She really is fantastic.

Right but Amber was no better in the free. or are you saying it's out of the question that Ting would go because USFSA only considers the juniors who compete senior?

 

[madibe]

Say what you want about Ashley Wagner, but she has been the most pre-eminent US figure skater over the past 8 years.

She convinced me to go to my first ever figure skating competition tonight, in what I fear is probably her last skate. I'll miss her undeniable star-power, sass, and drama. Without her, the Olympics, and the figure skating world as a whole just got a whole lot less interesting.

 

[Miss Ice]

Looks like the US found themselves a Medvedeva. Look at this perfect (f)lutz! https://youtu.be/4vFOcOPq2O0?t=58s

Honestly, uncalled flutzes are some of the most aggravating ever. I guess she doesn't need to fix it for Olympics since others are getting a free pass.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

I watched the last two groups live. Enjoyed it, but overall the competition paled in comparison to Boston 2014, which I also attended.

- Honorable mention: Starr Andrews absolutely sparkled and gave an emotional, committed performance. I could tell that she really connected with her music. I think she's a talented singer and I think skating to her own version was gutsy and savvy -- but I have to say that in the arena, it sometimes sounded like a karaoke version. It was a bit strange when it switched to the Whitney Houston version. She got a huge standing ovation -- good for her for her clean performance.
- Mariah Bell - solid skate and I loved her guts, but her FS just wasn't the right vehicle. Really silly mistake on the 2A that ultimately didn't make a big difference.
- Ashley Wagner - I think the program has potential but there were a few moments where I found myself wondering if Ashley had forgotten or was ignoring her choreography. She appeared focused on her jumps and she did pay some attention to the performance, but overall, I wasn't greatly impressed by the technical or performance aspect. I don't agree with her placing higher in the FS than Karen Chen. She didn't have a meltdown and the audience was super happy about that, but I don't think she was wuzrubbed at all.
- Mirai Nagasu - had surprisingly good speed. Good for her for landing all her jumps. That 3A was very impressive live and she did land it perfectly in the warm-up. She didn't give up on the rest of the program even after the initial 3A wasn't perfect. Unfortunately, I did not care for the program at all. I found the choreography to be minimal and what was there barely reflected the music. The audience was really, really, really pulling for her -- but Mirai won't have that support in Korea. It was a great accomplishment for Mirai personally and I'm glad for her, but in terms of performance and program, I was left wanting much, much more.
- Angela Wang - she checked all the boxes for me in terms of musicality and interpretation...but something was still missing? Something intangible. Angela has a tough time connecting with audiences -- she doesn't project quite enough? Her mostly clean performance didn't get the reaction that I thought it should have.
- Karen Chen - she was committed to her choreography, performed to the music, projected to the audience, and gave a great performance overall. It wasn't perfect but her ceiling is higher than anyone else's. Nice edges and speed, and I'd have her first in PCS over all of the other ladies. Her lutzes are huge! Her spins were slower than usual and this performance wasn't her personal best, but she absolutely deserved to be on the podium, top 3, and she had better be going to Pyeongchang. For me, there is no question that Karen deserved to be ahead of Ashley Wagner and it shouldn't even have been that close.
- Bradie Tennell - nice jumps and it was refreshing to have a US lady who could nail all their jumps but I don't agree with her GOE and her PCS was absurd -- the choreography was awkwardly executed -- and some moments were just jarring, like the besti squat. :noshake: This performance doesn't compare to Gracie Gold's at 2014 US Nationals AT ALL (yes, even with Gracie's fall -- I stood for Gracie and it was an amazing performance) and I'd rank it behind Polina Edmund's 2014 performance there as well. She got a big standing O but the reaction to her score was not as unanimous -- I think some expected Mirai to win.

Thanks for the live perspective!!! Great read!!

 

[singerskates]

Speed is not the only determining factor in judging PCS.

Yes, depth of edges (lean of edges in turns and steps), ice coverage, transition of a senior level, musicality (skating to the phrasing and timing of the music and highlighting certain parts) are also considered in PCS marks. All the above also is part of the performance mark too which is part of the PCS. Ashley was skating at 75% and only got about 60 PCS. Her edges were rather flat for a senior skater, the program needed more time to build the transitions. And it just didn't look like she was yet skating to he music.