ISU VP Lakernik: № of quads may be limited

[QuadThrow]

Why not let the GOE as they are and add an extra -4 for a fall.

Lakernik mentioned Stolbova/Klimov doing 4STh and Zabiiako/Enbert doing 3ATh. These Paris have never performed those elements in competiton. So is he talking about practice?

 

[russianfan]

So apparently, the ISU isn’t considering refactoring PCS, but is trying to remedy everything on the technical side, and doesn’t seem to be concerned with how the new rules will be applied?

Apparently all they want is to make results even more biased, therefore they increase the GOE bonus, to allow judges to manipulate results even more. That's simple.

 

[chopinskate]

We need professional journalists who will be able to control the judges. And this is only possible with ISU spending some money on their training.
Look, as a journalist myself I know what sport journalism usually look like. Except few - extremely few tbh - lucky men, sport journalist are rarely specialists. It's just quite impossible to make your living on one and only sport, unless it's something highly popular, like football. People who write about skating have hardly any systematic knowledge about figure skating, hence they are easily manipulated.
As for accreditation, not only is it helpful, I believe it's actually needed to create a professional environment during press conferences. What is happening now is a joke. There are almost no questions regarding the technique or training process - there's a lot of "what-did-you-feel-when-crowd-cheered-for-Carolina-and-not-for-you" stuff.

Quoting you whenever someone quotes a "best ever" article ever, for the rest of eternity. I hope you're fine with that.

 

[chopinskate]

Who will pay for that though?

Yeah, where will all the money come from? No money for more cameras or the judges, after all.

URs for chronically URing skaters are happily coincidentally overlooked every time, of course.

 

[chopinskate]

- judges will have to take an EXAM every 3 years

Every 5 days might help, given even the current grade-school level of peeking-at-my-classmate's-notebook cheating. Clearly need some training there, to refresh memories on how to do it, without being caught. ;D

Might run a few out, too. And of course increase the current "level" of judging, by drilling rules into their heads, especially during the GPs.

 

[Ladskater]

I think change is good, as long as it benefits the skaters and adds quality instead of quantity to their programs. No matter what we think skaters are not machines, and FS has always been about graceful moves to beautiful music. I'll take a Toller Cranston or Patrick Chan - minus the quads - kind of program any day!

 

[Skater Boy]

The one thing I hate about rule changes is that it makes skating look so unstable. For years change was so solow under 6.0 - the weighting of programs and figures. And now we have changes not only of the focus but the value of elements,number of elemtns, times, rules on elements even the GOEs. Whew.

Maybe they should have school figures worth say 20 percent, jumps worth 20 percent, short program worth say 20 percent and long program worth 40 and then you can set rules on jump limitations in the long and the strong jumpers are rewarded in the jump segment.

 

[xeyra]

The one thing I hate about rule changes is that it makes skating look so unstable. For years change was so solow under 6.0 - the weighting of programs and figures. And now we have changes not only of the focus but the value of elements,number of elemtns, times, rules on elements even the GOEs. Whew.

Hey, gymnastics hasn't gotten any more understandable over the years, either. Every couple years there's a new scoring system, it seems like. Figure skating isn't alone in that.

 

[ladyjane]

Did I also read in the interview that we might get 20 pairs skaters in the final instead of 16 with the shorter FS? Now, that I would applaud. Although I wouldn't wish for a shorter S/M FS (anyone who's seen earlier posts of mine will know how much I love that programme), it would mean S/B would have gotten to show their FS at World's, while the Australians would have been 'in' at the Olympics. I wouldn't mind one less lift if that were the case in the future...

 

[BillNeal]

They're cutting out the Choreo Sequence part - don't know if this currently takes 30s though, how they might (the skaters that is) take a few more seconds from their routine I don't know.

Where did you read this?

I hope this is not true. The choreo sequence in pairs is where we can see some pair spirals, dance lifts, and/or other creative choreographic moves. I love S/M's choreo sequence, which was well-integrated and helped build the program to its ultimate finale. I can see that with the program time cut and the choreo sequence gone, that pair programs will look more rushed and just going from element to element.

If they are to cut anything due to shortening the LP, I would like the pair combination spin to be cut from the LP and be done only in the SP (or alternate between the SBS and pair combo spins between the two programs each year) because most pairs choose to do it as their last element, which is often slow and laboured.

 

[LRK]

Why not let the GOE as they are and add an extra -4 for a fall.

Lakernik mentioned Stolbova/Klimov doing 4STh and Zabiiako/Enbert doing 3ATh. These Paris have never performed those elements in competiton. So is he talking about practice?

I remember a while back in a Nina Mozer interview she was talking about Natalia Zabiiako injuring herself and being hospitalised because of training the 3A throw. I don't think I've seen it mentioned since - maybe they abandoned the attempt? Maybe someone else has better, and more recent, info.

 

[qwertyskates]

I wish that they will remove one more jumping pass and award a new 20 second element, something along the line of "creative, unique move/jump invention"...:think: so skating can get more interesting and innovative.

 

[chopinskate]

I wish that they will remove one more jumping pass and award a new 20 second element, something along the line of "creative, unique move invention"...:think: so skating can get more interesting and innovative.

Or just do two step sequences, again.

 

[qwertyskates]

Or just do two step sequences, again.

No, I really mean something not already known out there, eg. a new type of jump or skating move.:dance:

So it isn't just difficulty of element but creativity of element.

The more aesthetic, creative, innovative, unusual, the higher the marks for this particular new element.

It shouldn't be a stsq, can be a funky new jump, or a spin or a move in the field, or a combination.

It's for the Florent Amodios, Kevyn Amoz, Elladj Balde of figure skating to score without risking injury.

It will also be more fun for the audience.

 

[chopinskate]

No, I really mean something not already known out there, eg. a new type of jump or skating move.:dance:

Not everyone can, and that's another level of subjectivity with "I didn't like this because reasons and so 0 GOE". Sounds fun, but too much room for shenanigans. Would be cool to see, though! Or at least cool new choreography, instead of what's conventional. And a good way to show personality!

Step sequences are subjective too, but at least skaters can get the levels?

 

[Metis]

Apparently all they want is to make results even more biased, therefore they increase the GOE bonus, to allow judges to manipulate results even more. That's simple.

That concerns me as well, but at one bullet per positive GOE level and the expanded GOE range, I’m ... not sure what happens. A 0 versus 3 split in the panel ought to trigger a flag. (Though ISU’s self-checking procedures are laughably weak.)

I also really wish we had a defined negative scale so that “rotation of full blade on ice after use of toe-pick” could be assigned -1 GOE.

 

[qwertyskates]

Not everyone can, and that's another level of subjectivity with "I didn't like this because reasons and so 0 GOE". Sounds fun, but too much room for shenanigans. Would be cool to see, though! Or at least cool new choreography, instead of what's conventional. And a good way to show personality!

Step sequences are subjective too, but at least skaters can get the levels?

The problem with stsq is they consist of a string of the same moves, rockers, choctaw, illusions, etc. and the rules are too strict to become truly creative.

It's time to invent some great new moves or jumps, the way rittbergers, lutz, ina bauers and charlottes were invented before.

They can grade based on whether it has been done before, freshness, difficulty of execution, audience enthusiasm, etc.

So it won't get boring for the audience skate after skate as it means every program will have something stunning and new to look forward to that isn't an injury-risking jump.

 

[chopinskate]

The problem with stsq is they consist of a string of the same moves, rockers, choctaw, illusions, etc. and the rules are too strict to become truly creative.

It's time to invent some great new moves or jumps, the way rittbergers, lutz, ina bauers and charlottes were invented before.

They can grade based on whether it has been done before, freshness, difficulty of execution, audience enthusiasm, etc.

I think the level rules for step sequences make no sense. And I'm bored by most step sequences, which are only there to get points and levels, instead of for artistic expression.

I do think new moves should be rewarded, but I don't think there should be a segment specifically for it... Instead, if there must be subjectivity, I'd rather let the skaters skate to whatever new-age music they like, and add whatever moves they like -- and sure this can and should include new moves. But for this, I think the judges all need to be replaced with people who are willing to appreciate different tastes. I am not convinced that is the case currently. I think innovation can and should come, but the judges we have probably won't be promoting it. Unless it's very specifically moves like the hydroblade, or some spin positions. Maybe I'm being too harsh, but the same-y same music most competitors choose is telling.

Just want more artistic expression...

As for jumps, I think if someone invents it, they should get all the proper credit for it, through BV.

 

[qwertyskates]

I think the level rules for step sequences make no sense. And I'm bored by most step sequences, which are only there to get points and levels, instead of for artistic expression.

I do think new moves should be rewarded, but I don't think there should be a segment specifically for it... Instead, if there must be subjectivity, I'd rather let the skaters skate to whatever new-age music they like, and add whatever moves they like -- and sure this can and should include new moves. But for this, I think the judges all need to be replaced with people who are willing to appreciate different tastes. I am not convinced that is the case currently. I think innovation can and should come, but the judges we have probably won't be promoting it. Unless it's very specifically moves like the hydroblade, or some spin positions. Maybe I'm being too harsh, but the same-y same music most competitors choose is telling.

As for jumps, I think if someone invents it, they should get all the proper credit for it, through BV.

I'm bored by the same moves, steps, turns over and over... hydroblade, ina bauer, cantilever, etc.

Innovation won't happen without reward. If they reward second half execution why not reward creativity and innovative skating moves/jumps?

However, unless it really is special, it doesn't have to become new skating vocabulary....but if it is a stunning move, why not? Skaters will look forward to having a new move named after them, how exciting?:dance:

More variety and difficulty without injury risk is so much better for skaters in general. They don't have to risk crippling injury to be competitive, but use their special skills and ideas instead to make their programs memorable.

Audience will certainly benefit from having surprises in every program.

I hope that someone somewhere will consider this as it will add so much more to figure skating future, more than using lyrics.

It's also an element that can reward skaters of all Feds, not just those with top class coaches and technicians.

 

[draqq]

- I am only okay with the 30-second cut from the men's and pair's free skates if they add an extra group of qualification. Otherwise, it's just a way for TV channels to add more advertisements than actual skating.

- I'm fine with the new -5/+5 GOE range in theory, but in practice I'm already concerned that the judges will just give out +4s and +5s like candy, especially the judges that already hand out +2s and +3s to their country's best skater no matter what. The +4s and +5s also give top skaters an even greater cushion that will offset any mistakes they make - it's pretty much a net zero change.