2021-2022 Russian Men's Figure Skating

[Flying Feijoa]

Save for, indeed, moving to Tutberidze, I dunno what the heck he could do at this point to break out.

I'm not recommending it, but if it did come to a coach change, currently both Mishin and Sokolovskaya carry more reputational weight (and actual results) than Tutberidze, TBH. Crystal has had no successful senior Russian man in eight years - the last was Pitkeev and it didn't end well for him. Also, the guys who placed above Andrei are not from her camp.

Sorry to harp on this, it's just that (for better or worse) I think Tutberidze's influence over men's skating is often overestimated.

I have tried for decades to get family members interested in figure skating, and it mystifies me why they don’t see how incredible it is, lol.

On a tangent, I tried today to rope my dad into watching the men's Nationals SP together, but he thought the music was boring... I asked him what sort of music he likes, and he said "There's this piece that works very well, it has a nice clear beat. I think it's called Bolero or something. It doesn't seem very popular though, more people should use it."

 

[anonymoose_au]

"There's this piece that works very well, it has a nice clear beat. I think it's called Bolero or something. It doesn't seem very popular though, more people should use it."

OMG, that's the greatest thing I've ever heard!

You should direct him to YouTube so he can see all the glorious Boleros. I wonder what he'd think of Shoma's...

On the topic of Russian men, the RusFed has screwed up yet again, by sending Zhenya S to Euros. Not only have they been unfair to Mozalev, they've basically ensured that Zhenya will get all the flak and ill-wishes of those angry at the decision.

It'd be like sending Liza to Euros over Anna as a test (they're obviously testing Zhenya S and I have an awful feeling it's one he's going to fail). It's a stupid idea, but give the RusFed two options and they'll take the crappiest one every single time. They're an utter joke.

 

[lariko]

I have an awful feeling it's one he's going to fail)

I have an awful feeling that this is career ending for Mozalev, because all three will get Eu, Oly and World scores, solidify their hold, and Mozalev’s 252 will drop him into 30’s and 40’s in World ranking even in personal best since he won’t get higher scores of the 2nd part of the season. So, no, I wouldn’t worry about Semenenko. He’s made it. Ill-wishes are nothing. Nobody judges the victors, and the losers are soon forgotten. I am the self-professed Mozalev’s fan, and what do my qq and salty tears do except annoy all of you here?

I have a sinking feeling that this was Mozalev’s last chance. The other two guys managed to break out in their first season, and he just lost his second one, so he would join the Savosin-Erokhov pool, even worse done in than Ignatov.

Do you guys know if Russians ever let anyone build up slowly from second choices to the first, instead of immediately grabbing the lead?

I wish Mozalev had done the CoR. From all years, he had to be recovering from surgery couldn’t put 10 competitions in a row… aww.

 

[lariko]

I'm not recommending it, but if it did come to a coach change, currently both Mishin and Sokolovskaya carry more reputational weight (and actual results) than Tutberidze, TBH. Crystal has had no successful senior Russian man in eight years - the last was Pitkeev and it didn't end well for him. Also, the guys who placed above Andrei are not from her camp.

Well, Mishin has his 3 men, and Tutberidze seem to be the only one with enough weight to oppose Mishin, plus her training with wanting the athletes to be quiet, hard-working, do what they are told and run-through a lot seems to be compatible with what (I am guessing) Mozalev already does. I am not sure if Sokolvskaya is an option. Samarin and Kondratyuk are very different skaters than Mozalev.

But tbh, I don’t think he would move to Moscow or at all. He’ll probably stay the course and continue to get shafted until he disappears even from national stage.

 

[vorravorra]

Well, Mishin has his 3 men, and Tutberidze seem to be the only one with enough weight to oppose Mishin, plus her training with wanting the athletes to be quiet, hard-working, do what they are told and run-through a lot seems to be compatible with what (I am guessing) Mozalev already does. I am not sure if Sokolvskaya is an option. Samarin and Kondratyuk are very different skaters than Mozalev.

But tbh, I don’t think he would move to Moscow or at all. He’ll probably stay the course and continue to get shafted until he disappears even from national stage.

Apart from Eteri by her own admission not getting what makes male skaters tick, being at TT tends to be injurious to their health with few results. I don't see her as a good choice.

 

[lariko]

Apart from Eteri by her own admission not getting what makes male skaters tick, being at TT tends to be injurious to their health with few results. I don't see her as a good choice.

What is the good choice then? Other than tough break, Mozalev, you are the only one who needs 100% performance to get anywhere every time you set out on ice. And even if we go with this tough break marching orders, where else he is supposed to get it? Tutberidze with all her flaws seems to be the only one who could prep skaters with 100% performance. Nobody else does it.

Or is your answer that Mozalev is simply not good enough and there is nothing for him, no hope whatsoever?

 

[vorravorra]

What is the good choice then? Other than tough break, Mozalev, you are the only one who needs 100% performance to get anywhere every time you set out on ice. And even if we go with this tough break marching orders, where else he is supposed to get it? Tutberidze with all her flaws seems to be the only one who could prep skaters with 100% performance. Nobody else does it.

Eteri's only surviving male skater is Moris who is in a special position as there's certain nepotism involved, which allowed him to preserve his health but he certainly doesn't produce 100% performance. If Andrei tries to train the way the girls do, he'll break like a twig. Let TT show some worthwhile results with home-grown talent first before sending senior men with pre-existing health issues there.

 

[lariko]

Eteri's only surviving male skater is Moris who is in a special position as there's certain nepotism involved, which allowed him to preserve his health but he certainly doesn't produce 100% performance. If Andrei tries to train the way the girls do, he'll break like a twig. Let TT show some worthwhile results with home-grown talent first before sending senior men with pre-existing health issues there.

Right. Not Tutberidze. But who else then? Can anyone at all get Mozalev to 270’s internationally and that means clean short? Providing he doesn’t have a decade like Brown to breathlessly anticipate the landing of 4S? Is the answer basically no?

 

[Flying Feijoa]

Apart from Eteri by her own admission not getting what makes male skaters tick, being at TT tends to be injurious to their health with few results. I don't see her as a good choice.

Yes. To be fair injuries happen to men everywhere but in other camps the guys tend to recover and keep skating instead of changing coaches or retiring. Off the top of my head here's a few Russian men at various levels who have trained there:
-Samoilov: trained one season there, got a back injury, not allowed to rest, told to either skate through it or retire (go read his interview)
-Erokhov: trained 10 years there, got injured in the transition from junior to senior, was told to consider retiring (they seemed a bit more polite to him)
-Pitkeev: also rose up through the ranks there, lasted 1.5 years in seniors but retiring with injury
-Lukin: novice phenom with quads, but became very inconsistent this season and left
-Knyazev: broken leg, out this season
-Voronov: actually not bad but it was a 3-season stint midway through a 15 year career, then he moved off again

(I hesitate to include Samsonov as Osgood-Schlatter's can happen to many skaters and is a growth-related transient condition.)

Currently their boys who are actively competing at a significant level are:
-Rukhin (domestic senior/intl junior, returned to them only months ago)
-Kolesnikov, Fedotov (young teens)
-Morisi, Nika Egadze (Georgians, in a national field that is less intensely competitive)

 

[Flying Feijoa]

Right. Not Tutberidze. But who else then? Can anyone at all get Mozalev to 270’s internationally and that means clean short? Providing he doesn’t have a decade like Brown to breathlessly anticipate the landing of 4S? Is the answer basically no?

He isn't all that bad, who among Russian men does clean 2-quad shorts all the time?
Kondratiuk, Semenenko are somewhat consistent, but tend to have lower PCS internationally.
Mozalev is like Kolyada and Aliev, higher PCS but a bit more inconsistent at the moment.
Samarin, Gumennik, Ignatov I am not sure how to categorise...

 

[CrazyKittenLady]

Oh my, the mood is rather gloomy in here. What to do?
Let me share with you my discovery of what plagued Egor Rukhin during his FS. Midway through the performance he figured out that he'd accidentally put on Anna Shcherbakova's dress (incl. gloves) instead of his usual FS costume. What will Eteri have to say about this?
(Also shout out to Viktoria Butsaeva in the background going "Hmm, he looks like he could grow to 180cm...")

 

[lariko]

He isn't all that bad, who among Russian men does clean 2-quad shorts all the time?
Kondratiuk, Semenenko are somewhat consistent, but tend to have lower PCS internationally.
Mozalev is like Kolyada and Aliev, higher PCS but a bit more inconsistent at the moment.
Samarin, Gumennik, Ignatov I am not sure how to categorise...

Yes, but since he needs more next year than Kolyada, Aliev, Gumennik, Lutfullin, Ignatov, Erokhov, Samarin, etc, otherwise his bronze would not have been tossed aside, and since as a matter of general principal, the perfect success is better than the alternative… and taking the worst possible outcome (for him) where the chosen 3 guys deliver up to the RusFeds’s wildest, dreamiest, unlooked for expectations… if the problem of Russian men thusly declared to be resolved… if not Tutberidze, is there anyone at all he could potentially work with and be successful next year via (I assume) CoR/Nationals?

 

[vorravorra]

Right. Not Tutberidze. But who else then? Can anyone at all get Mozalev to 270’s internationally and that means clean short? Providing he doesn’t have a decade like Brown to breathlessly anticipate the landing of 4S? Is the answer basically no?

To 270's? I suspect nobody, that's at least 6th in the world currently. Only Kolyada and Aliev have managed that and it took them some time to climb there (and neither had an influential coach backing them). He'd do well to first aim for 260's, and that would require a better SP. That's been really sinking him, in the Fed's eyes as well as in the SB standings. I personally think he should have been allowed to go to Euros and demonstrate whether he can produce a good SP after all. But I can also grudgingly understand (without agreeing) why they would trust Semenenko (and Mishin) more.

 

[vorravorra]

Yes, but since he needs more next year than Kolyada, Aliev, Gumennik, Lutfullin, Ignatov, Erokhov, Samarin, etc, otherwise his bronze would not have been tossed aside, and since as a matter of general principal, the perfect success is better than the alternative… and taking the worst possible outcome (for him) where the chosen 3 guys deliver up to the RusFeds’s wildest, dreamiest, unlooked for expectations… if the problem of Russian men thusly declared to be resolved… if not Tutberidze, is there anyone at all he could potentially work with and be successful next year via (I assume) CoR/Nationals?

That's not going to happen so let's not worry about the impossible They will be as inconsistent as ever. He would need more that Kolyada and Aliev for sure but there is a high likelihood that Kolyada will retire and Aliev has not exactly been in a state where beating him is hard work. Mishin's boys may perform well, Kondratiuk at CSKA (but his jump technique is iffy so a question mark about consistency), Samarin I have doubts about, Danielian seems to have dropped to #3 at CSKA with not much support. Gumennik, Ignatov are not particularly well-liked and the Fed won't think twice about displacing them. Erokhov is basically a nobody at this point who will have to prove himself. And none of the above three have influential coaches or clubs to stand up for them, so I wouldn't worry about them too much in that respect. Andrei has the advantage of being a good skater with higher potential than most of the young guys, I would say only Danielian potentially surpasses him in quality, but Artur has far more problems that Andrei.

 

[lariko]

That's not going to happen so let's not worry about the impossible They will be as inconsistent as ever. He would need more that Kolyada and Aliev for sure but there is a high likelihood that Kolyada will retire and Aliev has not exactly been in a state where beating him is hard work.

What if it happens—because I don’t want to plan/wish for failures of other athletes—and Kolyada doesn’t retire?

 

[vorravorra]

What if it happens—because I don’t want to plan/wish for failures of other athletes—and Kolyada doesn’t retire?

Well, if any three guys are somehow perfect then it sucks for the rest of the pack, not just Andrei. The Fed (quite reasonably) won't break what works.

 

[lariko]

Well, if any three guys are somehow perfect then it sucks for the rest of the pack, not just Andrei. The Fed (quite reasonably) won't break what works.

Yes, but my question is more along the lines of who could train Mozalev, so he could perform flawlessly and obtain that qualifying silver since it was de facto demonstrated that 4th and 3rd positions are inadequate for him to be selected with his present coaching situation. Trusova did it this year, and she did it with Tutberidze as well as D/S. Kolyada did it with Mishin who already has 2/3 guys who specifically passed him over. B/K did it with Moskvina, so that doesn’t count.

 

[Jeanie19]

Yes, but my question is more along the lines of who could train Mozalev, so he could perform flawlessly and obtain that qualifying silver since it was de facto demonstrated that 4th and 3rd positions are inadequate for him to be selected with his present coaching situation. Trusova did it this year, and she did it with Tutberidze as well as D/S. Kolyada did it with Mishin who already has 2/3 guys who specifically passed him over. B/K did it with Moskvina, so that doesn’t count.

I really like his coach. My suggestion is summer camp. Dream would be with TCC with Orser in Canada,
Italy usually has one, Lambiel in Switzerland. I don't know if Rafael does one in California.
The Skating club in Boston has been doing great, not sure if they have a summer camp.

Also, as long as Andrei stays first alternative, the Olympics and Worlds are still a possibility.
He has probably a 60% chance of Worlds, 25% chance of the Olympics.
He should be training hard.

 

[lariko]

I really like his coach. My suggestion is summer camp. Dream would be with TCC with Orser in Canada,
Italy usually has one, Lambiel in Switzerland. I don't know if Rafael does one in California.
The Skating club in Boston has been doing great, not sure if they have a summer camp.

Also, as long as Andrei stays first alternative, the Olympics and Worlds are still a possibility.
He has probably a 60% chance of Worlds, 25% chance of the Olympics.
He should be training hard.

He is, but I am in agreement with @vorravorra logic—no Russian mean would dare miss the only WC in 4 years where a Russian man has a chance to medal. So with exception of injuries, which, again, I would never wish for any athlete, Mozalev’s one last competition of the season could be CoR Final if he is lucky. Apparently, it’s possible. If he could win gold there, I hope he could get Rostelecom GP next year and the Challengers to start rebuilding his rank. I just don’t think 252 is going to keep him in top 20 in an Olympic year. He needs to somehow pull off 90 in the short and repeat 180 in the free in the same event. God knows how.

 

[anonymoose_au]

Let me share with you my discovery of what plagued Egor Rukhin during his FS. Midway through the performance he figured out that he'd accidentally put on Anna Shcherbakova's dress (incl. gloves) instead of his usual FS costume.

I noticed this too! How odd...must have been a 2 for 1 sale at the dressmakers.

Of course now I can't remember Egor's FS music...did it at least fit the theme of it?

(Also shout out to Viktoria Butsaeva in the background going "Hmm, he looks like he could grow to 180cm...")

Well she could be right...look how long his arms are!

On topic I really feel bad for Andrei, he looked so sad at the Medal Ceremony

Why does the RusFed do these things?! Why do they never learn from their mistakes?

It makes me worried for all the Russian men TBH, there's no trust there... except for Misha maybe, every single one of them is just one really bad performance away from being thrown into the trash by their own Fed!

I just hope they don't think about that too much!