Women's FS - 2022 Olympics: Thoughts?

[lariko]

I just can never get the endless ‘pointers’ for Trusova how she should be being like everyone and it’s her own fault. Like, for her, 5 quads is not enough, she also needs PCSs to win over someone with 2 quads, or she needs to be like someone else or else she loses. It just always feels so, so wrong.

After all, she lost by like 2 points out of ~250, and the difference like that is discretionary. Based on what I see in figure skating scoring, she interprets her score exactly right. It’s a slight and a commentary that she doesn’t belong in skating without the darn PCSs. Somehow, everyone is always so, so ready to embrace those without the jumps, but can’t wait to put down the jumpers.

Imo, it sucks and it is a double standard.

 

[mrrice]

There are 5, count em, 5 pictures of Kamila's fall on the front page of my online paper. I hope this poor girl runs back to Russia and turns off ALL forms of social media. It is truly shameful that the press has decided to post her picture everywhere and not a single picture of the actual winner of the OGM. Go home and rejuvenate you sweet young girl. If you're not ready to come back for worlds. Take a vacation where no one knows you and just relax. Let the press chase after Eteri, and the true villain, her doctor for a while.

 

[KaoriFan]

I just can never get the endless ‘pointers’ for Trusova how she should be being like everyone and it’s her own fault. Like, for her, 5 quads is not enough, she also needs PCSs to win over someone with 2 quads, or she needs to be like someone else or else she loses. It just always feels so, so wrong.

After all, she lost by like 2 points out of ~250, and the difference like that is discretionary. Based on what I see in figure skating scoring, she interprets her score exactly right. It’s a slight and a commentary that she doesn’t belong in skating without the darn PCSs. Somehow, everyone is always so, so ready to embrace those without the jumps, but can’t wait to put down the jumpers.

Imo, it sucks and it is a double standard.

She can do 5 quads if she wants. Great for her. She will just have to be happy with her performance, that she accomplished her goal.

That's not the same as deserving Olympic Gold Medal. It's a competition involving 29 ... err ... 28 other skaters, untold numbers of coaches, trainers, choreographers, judges, federation executives, past champions and competitors. All of these people say: "this is what we want the Olympic Champion to do." And the girl who goes out there and does it the best, is the one who gets rewarded.

Who is Trusova to come out there and say to hell with everyone else these are her games and she will make the rules? And then throw a tantrum afterward when she doesn't get what she wants?

She wanted to do five quads and she did them. She ignored everyone else's advice, even her coaches, because she didn't want to listen to anyone. Be happy with what she achieved.

 

[Isabel_O'Reilly]

And when she did skate an amazing 2 quad lutz in the second half program and a perfectly skated short program with only a double axel she was marked 20 points lower than her competitors.

You can't blame her for going for the bv advantage when she loves jumps when she gets messages like that from the judges. At least they could not manipulate that. I'm heartbroken she didn't go pristinely clean in the free skate because then no one could have taken it away from Sasha.

 

[16Olympics]

very few saw that coming innit
to those saying "now look what u done to her" i say it's those who let her compete at fault completely don't blame anyone else
"irrepareble harm" right

but im far more interested to know what happen to trusova here

https://twitter.com/usssssta/status/1494313234433810442

the russian says "now everyone got a gold but me" btw
i don't know what to make of it
anyone know what happen to her with eteri since sp?
she gambled she lost big girl can cry but it's really on nobody but herself
i just hope somebody can be by her side now and guide her to see the end of tunnel

Her rant may have been directed at her coaches. I think she may have been talking about not skating in the team event while KV did the sp and fs and then she skated her guts out in the individual and she doesn't have gold but the other two TT skaters do.

 

[WeakAnkles]

There really wasn't much "Olympic" about it.

 

[KaoriFan]

Btw Wakaba Higuchi placed 5th and Young You placed 6th in case that should ever be relevant in the future.

 

[Idiote]

Well, it was my first time ever watching the Olympic Games... Err.

I expected to shed some tears, but not these kind of tears I think I'll feel better in a few days, and there are definitely performances I'll rewatch. But wow, what a letdown. And I've only been a fan for merely three years, so I cannot imagine how Sasha, Kamila, Anna and all the others feel.

Eteri needs to go down.

 

[Amei]

What I'm reading on Twitter is horrifying:

Alexandra Trusova stayed in the stadium and refused to leave with her team. According to these comments by volunteers at the Olympics, she refused food and drink, and was eventually dragged out around 3am by Eteri, who yelled at her. Poor girl #beijing2022 #FigureSkating

I will play devil's advocate and say (if the above is true), I kinda don't blame Eteri for yelling at her. I mean, Sasha needs to go to her room and rest not stay in the stadium in shock. She needs support from her family and a professional really bad IMO. Unreal. A parent should have been there for her.

I feel bad because a silver medal at the Olympics is a big deal, and also landing five quads. She is the winner of the free after all. But she sees it as a defeat and that is because of the toxic winner mentality that is glorified and encouraged. And if you don't have that mentality, you're seen as a loser as many great skaters are seen as by many. Sad.

The thing with Trusova is we've heard her remark about the rewards she gets of new dogs when she makes some benchmark jump from her parents. I wonder what 'rewards' she's lost out from them for not beating her teammates at international events? On the opposite side, Shcherbakova had a rough go at Nationals and at the SP in Euros, she was asked at Nationals by journalists about why she should go to the Olympics over others. She's in the same training environment as Trusova but seems to handle bad performances, 'losing' much better. I think Trusova the answer might lie more at home with her reaction here. And I do think it was an over-reaction or a reaction of someone that has never been taught how to keep a grip on themselves for it to be after 3am and her coach ends up having to drag her to the bus so that the entire team could go home, let's not forget that bus probably had an equally distraught Valieva on it.

 

[anonymoose_au]

And when she did skate an amazing 2 quad lutz in the second half program and a perfectly skated short program with only a double axel she was marked 20 points lower than her competitors.

Oh yeah that's when I felt hopeless....Sasha had worked so much in her artistry at that point, she was taking extra dance lessons. She was trying a new style for her.

Then Nats happened and the message seemed clear: Stop that you're a jumping bean not a proper skater don't make us laugh with your attempts to be. Go back to what you're good at.

So she did and she finally did 5 quads and it still wasn't enough! Had Kamila skated as she usually did Sasha would have lost by even more.

Earlier someone said that men doing multiple quads are held to a high standard too. But it was FIVE quads, something only Nathan could do. Doesn't that count for anything?

Isn't the motto of the games "Faster, Higher, Stronger"?

For Sasha it seems being Russian is deterimental to her. If it were a competitor from any other country who did 5 quads the judges would have lost their minds and scored her off the scale.

 

[Bonnie F]

I'm happy for Anna and sorry that her team and teammates' actions dampened her moment. I think Kamila is a wonderful skater who was exploited by her coach and support team. I don't think any of this was her fault but she should not have been allowed to skate and I just hope there's someone at home who will help her to recover mentally. Placing her in this position was cruel by all involved. I was pleasantly surprised and delighted by Alyssa's skate. I've enjoyed Tara and Johnny during all of the drama surrounding the event. And with this I'm going to take a break from visiting the forum for a while until all of the debate and drama die down.

 

[4everchan]

I just can never get the endless ‘pointers’ for Trusova how she should be being like everyone and it’s her own fault. Like, for her, 5 quads is not enough, she also needs PCSs to win over someone with 2 quads, or she needs to be like someone else or else she loses. It just always feels so, so wrong.

After all, she lost by like 2 points out of ~250, and the difference like that is discretionary. Based on what I see in figure skating scoring, she interprets her score exactly right. It’s a slight and a commentary that she doesn’t belong in skating without the darn PCSs. Somehow, everyone is always so, so ready to embrace those without the jumps, but can’t wait to put down the jumpers.

Imo, it sucks and it is a double standard.

you know, the sport is based on a double standard... it's trying to be both a sport and an art form... and thus it gives judges an opportunity to "decide" where to place people. I have not watched this particular event by choice and by need of sleep but the one thing I would say is the following : when the judges are giving you tips, if you want to survive in the sport, you gotta listen. Trusova reminds me of Surya Bonaly in that sense because all Surya wanted to do is to land a quad... she wanted to bring the sport in a more acrobatic place also with the back flip... ISU said, a jump needs to be landed on one foot, she learned it on one foot... still.. they didn't like it... So in the end, she did her own thing and never won the big prize. If Sasha wants to win the big prize, she needs to listen to the ones who tell her to bring up better skating skills. She could easily remove one quad and have more time for transitions and moves in the field... etc... Look, Yuzuru wanted to land his quad axel, well, that was his focus, he didn't get a medal (nor a quad axel but he tried it)... I believe at this point there are double standards yes but Sasha needs to figure out what is her own standard : does she want the big prize or does she want to be unique and daring and athletic? Up to her to answer... but it's perhaps not possible to do both at the same time... and in the end, she still got good scores in her SP (also didn't watch) considering she fell and what i have read on this site... She still gets rewarded plenty... just not as much as she would like it... I know you like her, I am not trying to confront you at all, just to find some explanation.

 

[lariko]

you know, the sport is based on a double standard... it's trying to be both a sport and an art form... and thus it gives judges an opportunity to "decide" where to place people. I have not watched this particular event by choice and by need of sleep but the one thing I would say is the following : when the judges are giving you tips, if you want to survive in the sport, you gotta listen. Trusova reminds me of Surya Bonaly in that sense because all Surya wanted to do is to land a quad... she wanted to bring the sport in a more acrobatic place also with the back flip... ISU said, a jump needs to be landed on one foot, she learned it on one foot... still.. they didn't like it... So in the end, she did her own thing and never won the big prize. If Sasha wants to win the big prize, she needs to listen to the ones who tell her to bring up better skating skills. She could easily remove one quad and have more time for transitions and moves in the field... etc... Look, Yuzuru wanted to land his quad axel, well, that was his focus, he didn't get a medal (nor a quad axel but he tried it)... I believe at this point there are double standards yes but Sasha needs to figure out what is her own standard : does she want the big prize or does she want to be unique and daring and athletic? Up to her to answer... but it's perhaps not possible to do both at the same time... and in the end, she still got good scores in her SP (also didn't watch) considering she fell and what i have read on this site... She still gets rewarded plenty... just not as much as she would like it... I know you like her, I am not trying to confront you at all, just to find some explanation.

Yes, but Trusova also knows, as we all do, that people fall with less quads, fall on triples, fall on doubles too, and that when she took out quads and increased her SS, she was still put in third after Valieva and Scherbakova at RusNuts, even if she was jumping senior quads… and there is no guarantee that she could increase the PCSs at all or that it will be noticed.

Like, I, for one would never understand how Gubanova can be below Bell or Kagiyama can be ahead of Uno, what Safonova doesn’t have what Hendrixx does, how Cha can be 5th and Mozalev—19th.

How’s Trusova who has insane jumping power and can’t muster literally only one jump, the darn triple Axel, loses to people who can only do one. It makes no sense whatsoever.

 

[4everchan]

Yes, but Trusova also knows, as we all do, that people fall with less quads, fall on triples, fall on doubles too, and that when she took out quads and increased her SS, she was still put in third after Valieva and Scherbakova at RusNuts, even if she was jumping senior quads… and there is no guarantee that she could increase the PCSs at all or that it will be noticed.

Like, I, for one would never understand how Gubanova can be below Bell or Kagiyama can be ahead of Uno, what Safonova doesn’t have what Hendrixx does, how Cha can be 5th and Mozalev—19th.

How’s Trusova who has insane jumping power and can’t muster literally only one jump, the darn triple Axel, loses to people who can only do one. It makes no sense whatsoever.

PCS is a funny matter...i have given up a long time ago in trying to understand how it works for the judges i leave it up to them to do as they please because i have no control on it... however, i have to say that if it were up to me, the only 3 skaters i would give big PCS in this event would be kaori, wakaba and loena. Again, I haven't watched... but to me right now, a lot of the women are focused on getting their TES as competitive as possible and the overall skating is lacking among the top 50 skaters. I miss skaters like Osmond.

 

[lariko]

All of these people say: "this is what we want the Olympic Champion to do." And the girl who goes out there and does it the best, is the one who gets rewarded.

I think her coaches’ message was that if she lands all her jumps, nobody can catch her up on BV. The judging is so all over the place, with PCSs assignments so arbitrary. Everyone else is getting compassion, even Valieva who should have been removed from competition on February 8th, but Trusova in success and failure gets this ‘your own fault’ and ‘should be happy to be on the podium at all’ spiels. The endless complaints about her programs, even when they are artistic like her last year’s short, when there are no falls and just one quad, like in Skate America, when there are 5 quads… it’s almost like people, i dunno, don’t want her to win.

 

[ks777]

Letting her competewould be not an issue if people managed to stay civil and stick to "not guilty until proven otherwise".

actually when it comes to doping, once you tested positive you are guilty until proven otherwise.

 

[lariko]

PCS is a funny matter...i have given up a long time ago in trying to understand how it works for the judges i leave it up to them to do as they please because i have no control on it... however, i have to say that if it were up to me, the only 3 skaters i would give big PCS in this event would be kaori, wakaba and loena. Again, I haven't watched... but to me right now, a lot of the women are focused on getting their TES as competitive as possible and the overall skating is lacking among the top 50 skaters. I miss skaters like Osmond.

If I was determining that, to me, it were Kurakova, Schizas, Gubanova and Sakomoto.

Imo, even Trusova fits far better with the characters, image and music selected for her than Higuchi.

 

[4everchan]

If I was determining that, to me, it were Kurakova, Schizas, Gubanova and Sakomoto.

Imo, even Trusova fits far better with the characters, image and music selected for her than Higuchi.

i like some of the skaters you mentioned up there. For instance, I find Schizas very much undermarked... but then, she is not a contender and skating early... but is that fair? Regarding Trusova, I cannot comment because I have not watched her recently.



What is messed up with IJS is that BV is supposed to be WHAT is done and PCS and GOE HOW it is done... BUT... it doesn't work like this..under the current judging... for men, if you have two quads in the SP you get a PCS bonus for sure... and that's wrong... but this is a completely separate talk, one we have had on this forum over and over.. the judging system is not perfect... that's something we agree on.

 

[nickp91]

Absolutely thrilled to see Sakamoto get the bronze

 

[Isabel_O'Reilly]

you know, the sport is based on a double standard... it's trying to be both a sport and an art form... and thus it gives judges an opportunity to "decide" where to place people. I have not watched this particular event by choice and by need of sleep but the one thing I would say is the following : when the judges are giving you tips, if you want to survive in the sport, you gotta listen. Trusova reminds me of Surya Bonaly in that sense because all Surya wanted to do is to land a quad... she wanted to bring the sport in a more acrobatic place also with the back flip... ISU said, a jump needs to be landed on one foot, she learned it on one foot... still.. they didn't like it... So in the end, she did her own thing and never won the big prize. If Sasha wants to win the big prize, she needs to listen to the ones who tell her to bring up better skating skills. She could easily remove one quad and have more time for transitions and moves in the field... etc... Look, Yuzuru wanted to land his quad axel, well, that was his focus, he didn't get a medal (nor a quad axel but he tried it)... I believe at this point there are double standards yes but Sasha needs to figure out what is her own standard : does she want the big prize or does she want to be unique and daring and athletic? Up to her to answer... but it's perhaps not possible to do both at the same time... and in the end, she still got good scores in her SP (also didn't watch) considering she fell and what i have read on this site... She still gets rewarded plenty... just not as much as she would like it... I know you like her, I am not trying to confront you at all, just to find some explanation.

Did you ignore what we just pointed out? Sasha skated a typical lyrical graceful sp program to an instrumental piece of music with only a double axel at 2021 Nationals and placed below both Kamila and Anna with such a score that even a triple axel flawlessly executed only would have taken her close to the lead, while their flawed skates were shamelessly overscored.

In the FS she did 2 Quad Lutzes, one of which was in combination with a triple along with 3 3-3's (or was it only 2 3-3's) but either way with lowered technical content that she can do in her sleep she performed amazingly from beginning to end. And unlike here at the Olympics where she was at least rewarded with 1st in the FS she placed a distant 3rd.

I have alway loved her skating, people say she doesn't perform but I have never agreed with that especially her SP which have always been incredible to watch, occasionally the messy FS programs were definitely justifiably scored much much lower. However when I watched these 2 programs back in December 2020 I was so excited, finally I thought people cannot deny her skills when she made it so obvious you'd have to be blind not to see it by skating a style similar to everyone else. But then she was cut down to 4th in the SP, 3rd in the FS and 3rd overall. And even the jump GOE was manipulated considered how much Anna received for her Quad Lutz vs what Sasha received for hers.

And after being told that hey, even if you drop the 3A, drop 3 of the 5 quads and perform to peoples' typical sense of "artistry" we'll still score you 20 points lower! On what planet would anyone say hey I'm content with having the highest base value but still losing I'll just stay at this level.

And people who say she shouldn't have gone for the triple axel here at the Olympics are ignoring the fact that with Kamilas and Anna's scores prior to this event she needed to go for it to even have a chance at Gold.