2024-25 Japanese Women's Figure Skating

[Leocadia]

Im not saying they 100 percent go with the top 3. Im saying that they pick whoever they want as long as they have at least one criteria. Fulfilling more criteria doesn't add anything as long as the skaters had somewhat comparable success. Mone doesn't have the past accomplishments to warrant jumping other top girls this season. All of the GPF girls had comparable success this season. One caveat is the placement of the juniors. Finishing third among seniors doesn't carry as much weight as actually reaching the podium. With Shimada involved, that is a concern. This being skating, political connection is also involved too.

Mone may not have a lot of international medals yet, but she still has a bronze and a gold medal from 4CC. I’d argue that her consistently high scores so far this season and her GPF placement give her a good chance of being on the world team, regardless of those past accomplishments.

 

[Joekaz]

Mone may not have a lot of international medals yet, but she still has a bronze and a gold medal from 4CC. I’d argue that her consistently high scores so far this season and her GPF placement give her a good chance of being on the world team, regardless of those past accomplishments.

She has a good chance of being top 3 seniors at Nationals for sure. And the JSF clearly like her and her coach is politically connected as well,so her scoring should be generous. But if she is beaten by another one of the girls from GPF, particular if they podium and she doesn't, she won't bump them. 4 Continents is weaker than a average grand prix event and she has won nothing this year. Scores from different events aren't very useful because scoring panels vary alot. Wakaba is more accomplished, has won an event this year, and is more physically talented than her. Matsuike is also more talented a skater and has the same grand prix record this season. Yoshida has more accomplishments, won an event this year, and has a triple axle. If I had to bet, I would say Chiba will make it. But there is no reason to give anything to Mone if she doesn't earn it at Nationals.

 

[saine]

She has a good chance of being top 3 seniors at Nationals for sure. And the JSF clearly like her and her coach is politically connected as well,so her scoring should be generous. But if she is beaten by another one of the girls from GPF, particular if they podium and she doesn't, she won't bump them. 4 Continents is weaker than a average grand prix event and she has won nothing this year. Scores from different events aren't very useful because scoring panels vary alot. Wakaba is more accomplished, has won an event this year, and is more physically talented than her. Matsuike is also more talented a skater and has the same grand prix record this season. Yoshida has more accomplishments, won an event this year, and has a triple axle. If I had to bet, I would say she will make it. But there is no reason to give anything to Mone if she doesn't earn it at Nationals.

Mone Chiba may not have won any events, but her combined scores (424.45) are higher than Rino Matsuike (391.36), Wakaba Higuchi (403.01) and Hana Yoshida (390.83). She won silver at the Grand Prix Final, and was in events won by Amber Glenn (combined 425.98) and Kaori Sakamoto (combined 433.09). Those combined scores are the tie-breaker after placements, so she went into GPF with a higher placement than Rino for that reason. She had tougher competition in her assignments and held her own with the third highest combined score. She is scoring well enough with three different judging panels to help Japan keep the three spots that they have going into an Olympic qualifying Worlds.

I'm not seeing where her record is that much weaker than the other women in the GPF. If you prefer to see Rino Matsuike make it to Worlds, that's fine. Everyone has their preferences. But I'm not seeing what makes her record this season that much stronger than Mone Chiba, and I doubt that JSF would see it that way either. If one of the criteria for Worlds is top 2 GPF placements and she is the highest Japanese placement there, it would be extremely difficult for them to not have someone who fulfills that criteria on the team, especially with the consistency that she's shown this season.

 

[Joekaz]

Mone Chiba may not have won any events, but her combined scores (424.45) are higher than Rino Matsuike (391.36), Wakaba Higuchi (403.01) and Hana Yoshida (390.83). She won silver at the Grand Prix Final, and was in events won by Amber Glenn (combined 425.98) and Kaori Sakamoto (combined 433.09). Those combined scores are the tie-breaker after placements, so she went into GPF with a higher placement than Rino for that reason. She had tougher competition in her assignments and held her own with the third highest combined score. She is scoring well enough with three different judging panels to help Japan keep the three spots that they have going into an Olympic qualifying Worlds.

I'm not seeing where her record is that much weaker than the other women in the GPF. If you prefer to see Rino Matsuike make it to Worlds, that's fine. Everyone has their preferences. But I'm not seeing what makes her record this season that much stronger than Mone Chiba, and I doubt that JSF would see it that way either. If one of the criteria for Worlds is top 2 GPF placements and she is the highest Japanese placement there, it would be extremely difficult for them to not have someone who fulfills that criteria on the team, especially with the consistency that she's shown this season.

Nowhere did I say Matsuike was better than Chiba. I said she was a more talented skater, not better. I even said I thought Chiba was likely to make it. From your comments you seem to not comprehend what I wrote.I didn't say any of them were better, I said Chiba was not accomplished enough to warrant jumping over any of those girls if they defeat her at Nats because they are relatively comparable.

 

[saine]

Nowhere did I say Matsuike was better than Chiba. I said she was a more talented skater, not better. I even said I thought Chiba was likely to make it. From your comments you seem to not comprehend what I wrote.I didn't say any of them were better, I said Chiba was not accomplished enough to warrant jumping over any of those girls if they defeat her at Nats because they are relatively comparable.

This is what you said about Rino Matsuike:

Matsuike is also more talented a skater and has the same grand prix record this season.

She does not have the same Grand Prix record as Mone Chiba this season. I pointed this out from the final standings. You can prefer her over Mone Chiba, but that does not make their records the same.

You are looking for reasons that Mone Chiba is not as accomplished as the other Japanese women on the Grand Prix this season and then accused me of not comprehending what you wrote when I disagreed. I am done engaging with you.

 

[Joekaz]

This is what you said about Rino Matsuike:

She does not have the same Grand Prix record as Mone Chiba this season. I pointed this out from the final standings. You can prefer her over Mone Chiba, but that does not make their records the same.

You are looking for reasons that Mone Chiba is not as accomplished as the other Japanese women on the Grand Prix this season and then accused me of not comprehending what you wrote when I disagreed. I am done engaging with you.

They both came in second in both their grand prix events, didn't they? What are you talking about?

 

[Joekaz]

This is what you said about Rino Matsuike:

She does not have the same Grand Prix record as Mone Chiba this season. I pointed this out from the final standings. You can prefer her over Mone Chiba, but that does not make their records the same.

You are looking for reasons that Mone Chiba is not as accomplished as the other Japanese women on the Grand Prix this season and then accused me of not comprehending what you wrote when I disagreed. I am done engaging with you.

Oh I see, you are probably including GPF as part of the season. I was only referring to the regular season events. Then yes, if you include GPF, then Mone did have a better record. However, I don't think that is enough to warrant jumping over Matsuike if she podiums.

 

[YuBluByMe]

The women were unbelievably outstanding this weekend! That was the best Nationals in a very long time. They’ve been taking ass and kicking names all season. I can’t wait for Worlds.

Speaking off, there were no surprises about the Worlds team: Sakamoto, Higuchi, Chiba. 4CC team is Higuchi, Chiba, Matsuike.

I really wish Sumiyoshi could have made the 4CC team. I’m so frustrated so I know she is. She must be tired of being on alternate lists. She was top 8 so she’ll get a senior B, but I would like to see her at a challenger.

I’m not as frustrated by Yamashita not being selected to 4CC. I knew it would happen! She did well at Nationals last year too which is why she has minimums in the first place. She’ll probably be at the same competition as Sumiyoshi. But she needs an SB. She’ll get there. The best path for her is to get that host spot at NHK.

 

[rabidline]

I really wish Sumiyoshi could have made the 4CC team. I’m so frustrated so I know she is. She must be tired of being on alternate lists. She was top 8 so she’ll get a senior B, but I would like to see her at a challenger.

I’m not as frustrated by Yamashita not being selected to 4CC. I knew it would happen! She did well at Nationals last year too which is why she has minimums in the first place. She’ll probably be at the same competition as Sumiyoshi. But she needs an SB. She’ll get there. The best path for her is to get that host spot at NHK.

Yeah I was expecting Mako to not get any assignments... but it still bums me out because Nationals was probably the best she's ever been both in the SP and FS in a long, long time. Last year it was visible that she was still a bit slow and not on top of her game physically (but did a great SP), this year she is trained and sharp and strong and... ready to get back out there internationally. But yes the first step would be to secure that NHK Trophy host spot next season. Don't you dare get injured Mako!!! Not now!!!

I'm trying to stay positive and think long term (2026 onwards) for Rion. I think she's great, she gets out there and gets those scores, but there's a little bit missing. It could be a touch of maturity, because I think she's shaping up to be such a distinct performer, and it's just a matter of getting all together physically and mentally. It takes time. Like Mako really was just a highlight for me this weekend, and it took a very long time for her to regroup after her senior debut.

But yes I agree this is like... the best Nationals in a long time for the women. So many skates are going on my rewatch playlist.

 

[Joekaz]

This was a great event. Oddly, it seemed like most of the top girls other than Mone skated more nervously at GPF than here, where there is alot more pressure.

 

[gotoschool]

I believe the Japanese federation should totally separate competitions for Juniors and Seniors at Nationals since I think they discriminate in both tech and PCS against their very best Junior's skater and one of the best Junior skaters ever, Mao Shimada who I believe deserved to win Nationals this year. I think the JSF makes it impossible for any Junior to win since in the LP for example Mao Shimada had almost 13 points lower PCS but over 7 points more than Kaori in tech score and still "lost" the freeksate by like 6 points. Mao was also scored more harshly in tech overall as well. This is part of what I believe is an accelerating trend in the ISU of scoring Juniors harsher even as so called Junior skaters like Mao are now 16 years old which used to be Senior's age. The best way to alleviate this problem is to not include Junior's and Senior's in any competitions due to relative discrimination against Juniors currently in scoring. Consider the stark contrast that Alina Zagitova for example earned 75 PCS in the 2018 Olympics when she was just 15 years old even younger than Mao Shimada receiving 63 PCS with a higher tech score of 81. In addition to Mao's exceptional skating skills, refinement, expression and interpretation, her status as 2 time Junior Worlds and 3 times Junior Grand Prix champion in a row is totally irrelevant to the JSF.

This discriminatory scoring against Juniors who are now really what used to be Senior's age creates potential psychological trauma and discourages the development of Juniors by making them feel like no matter how hard they try and land triple axels or quads or have far higher tech scores while also having great presentation skills, they will still lose and see headlines indicating this in the press. This falls particularly hard on Mao Shimada who just misses the upcoming Olympics because of the harsh age rule and won't even be skating as a Senior till around her 18th birthday. This is just another reason why Junior's competitions and non Olympic events have become more engaging for me to watch.

In my opinion, something similar happened before at Japanese Nationals in 2018 when Rika Kihira was also 16 years old and relatively underscored after winning the Senior Grand Prix Final and deserved to win Japanese Nationals in my opinion.

 

[Joekaz]

I believe the Japanese federation should totally separate competitions for Juniors and Seniors at Nationals since I think they discriminate in both tech and PCS against their very best Junior's skater and one of the best Junior skaters ever, Mao Shimada who I believe deserved to win Nationals this year. I think the JSF makes it impossible for any Junior to win since in the LP for example Mao Shimada had almost 13 points lower PCS but over 7 points more than Kaori in tech score and still "lost" the freeksate by like 6 points. Mao was also scored more harshly in tech overall as well. This is part of what I believe is an accelerating trend in the ISU of scoring Juniors harsher even as so called Junior skaters like Mao are now 16 years old which used to be Senior's age. The best way to alleviate this problem is to not include Junior's and Senior's in any competitions due to relative discrimination against Juniors currently in scoring. Consider the stark contrast that Alina Zagitova for example earned 75 PCS in the 2018 Olympics when she was just 15 years old even younger than Mao Shimada receiving 63 PCS with a higher tech score of 81. In addition to Mao's exceptional skating skills, refinement, expression and interpretation, her status as 2 time Junior Worlds and 3 times Junior Grand Prix champion in a row is totally irrelevant to the JSF.

This discriminatory scoring against Juniors who are now really what used to be Senior's age creates potential psychological trauma and discourages the development of Juniors by making them feel like no matter how hard they try and land triple axels or quads or have far higher tech scores while also having great presentation skills, they will still lose and see headlines indicating this in the press. This falls particularly hard on Mao Shimada who just misses the upcoming Olympics because of the harsh age rule and won't even be skating as a Senior till around her 18th birthday. This is just another reason why Junior's competitions and non Olympic events have become more engaging for me to watch.

In my opinion, something similar happened before at Japanese Nationals in 2018 when Rika Kihira was also 16 years old and relatively underscored after winning the Senior Grand Prix Final and deserved to win Japanese Nationals in my opinion.

Its not that they were harsh to Mao. They were lenient and vastly overscored Sakamoto like they always do. Plus every country inflates their champion at Nationals to make them look better internationally.

 

[rabidline]

Challenge Cup assignments out:

Women - Mako Yamashita, Rinka Watanabe, Rion Sumiyoshi



Also - Kaori withdrew from Milano Trophy after assessing her condition after JNats and considering having 2 consecutive competitions with Asian Winter Games.

 

[DemTuppesSeine]

Aaaahhhh those Challenge Cup assignments

 

[Joekaz]

Challenge Cup assignments out:

Women - Mako Yamashita, Rinka Watanabe, Rion Sumiyoshi



Also - Kaori withdrew from Milano Trophy after assessing her condition after JNats and considering having 2 consecutive competitions with Asian Winter Games.

I believe Hana Yoshida is replacing Kaori.

 

[denise3lz]

Still no international assignment for Saki Miyake.
It's pretty difficult for skaters not stand out in novice/junior era.
Even Watanabe was novice B champ and Aoki was novice A champ.

 

[streams4dreams]

Challenge Cup assignments out:

Women - Mako Yamashita, Rinka Watanabe, Rion Sumiyoshi



Also - Kaori withdrew from Milano Trophy after assessing her condition after JNats and considering having 2 consecutive competitions with Asian Winter Games.

So happy Rion got an assignment! I'd love for her to have two clean skates at an event

 

[RafaelAstro]

Even thou Hana didn't qualify to worlds this season she is going to compete in many competitions this second half of the season, winter universiade, asian winter games and milano cup, that may help her with getting consistency with her triple axel and be more prepared next season, sadly none of those comps count for personal best scores but at least they let us watch more times skaters with potential who couldn't qualify to worlds or 4cc

 

[skim1001]

A behind the scene of the women's free skate at Nationals was just uploaded. It's great to see the camaraderie the japanese women have with each other. Lots of great moments here. This video is geoblocked to Japan though. There's also a separate video for the men and pairs/ice dance.

 

[MiraiFan]

Even thou Hana didn't qualify to worlds this season she is going to compete in many competitions this second half of the season, winter universiade, asian winter games and milano cup, that may help her with getting consistency with her triple axel and be more prepared next season, sadly none of those comps count for personal best scores but at least they let us watch more times skaters with potential who couldn't qualify to worlds or 4cc

What happened to Hana at nationals?