2025 World Figure Skating Championships Rhythm Dance

[Janice4th]

Of course I did, I just stated that I didn't know the coreo sequence could be more than +5.5 added to the level 1 that's all!

This is the reason most of the time I don't like to post; people just interpret what you say their own way ( also English is my second language so... I might not say it the way you like it)

But you pointed it out for C/B, only. It came across as a continuation of the flood of ‘oh my God, Chock and Bates are getting bonus points they don’t deserve’. If that isn’t what you meant, my apologies, but that was how I perceived it.

 

[Janice4th]

You know.. I have a lot of experience on this field being a chan fan and a Duhamel fan...hang in here, take what you can, enjoy your skaters and don't mind the ones who have other tastes. Just my advice.

I didn’t know Patrick Chan trained in Orlando for a while. Everyone says such really nice things about him. He was really great with the kids here (one of them is now a pairs skater for the US).

 

[maofan]

But you pointed it out for C/B, only. It came across as a continuation of the flood of ‘oh my God, Chock and Bates are getting bonus points they don’t deserve’. If that isn’t what you meant, my apologies, but that was how I perceived it.

No, please check, it was a reply to another poster regarding the +6.64!

Also, I happen to like C/B since I first saw them live many years ago, they are absolutely striking on the ice and nobody sells the programs like they do!

 

[Janice4th]

No, please check, it was a reply to another poster regarding the +6.64!

Also, I happen to like C/B since I first saw them live many years ago, they are absolutely striking on the ice and nobody sells the programs like they do!

I think when I commented on your post it was to include both. I probably should have snipped the post. I’d use the excuse that it’s because I’m posting from my phone, but it’s really because I’m old.

 

[el henry]

Super glad you like them, and I will agree that they really sell the programs, and Madison doesn't hit a bad position. But do you care to elaborate and justify why you think their edges are better? How so? I typically see shallow or edges and a lot less speed although they are certainly crisp with a lot of their skating. Certainly don't see a ton of ice coverage most of the time ... however, I will say that I was less frustrated with their first place position this time because I don't really think Paul and Piper grabbed the opportunity and I felt that they were kind of flat today

Thank you for asking the questions in a way that IMO leads to good discourse,

I think in this instance, this comp, in this program, Madi and Evan leaned into their skates, I saw almost no snow, I saw speed and precision on the twizzles. Now, I am not an ice dance maven, (men are my favorite discipline, although I like to think my fav skater is known for his blade control among other things ) so I could be missing something,

I agree with you about Piper and Paul today, I love that Barbie program (and I was no huge fan of Madi and Evan's RD at the start, it gave me a headache) but they just didn't attack. I know it's vague but it's the best word I can come up with. Madi and Evan attacked that RD.

I really did think there was that big a difference between them (although I may be influenced by men's singles where four points is not a humongous lead).

I think the top five placements were pretty much right. We'll see what I think tomorrow.

 

[thatdarncat]

Devastated for Turkkila/Versluis at least we get to see the tango, but the cost was (almost) too high Well, they have their work cut out for them for the FD.

This was first time I saw Chock/Bates RD and...well, it was technically awesome and well performed. But don't go around telling it's some compositional masterpiece. Kudos to the pair they managed to sell it to me, because from anyone else I would not have bought it.

Disco Brits doing great! ...but at the Euros, their FD looked obsolete among other artistically more ambitious and interesting programs. Is it going to be different here? I think they'll need others flop to medal.

I agree about the Brits, as much as I would like to see them podium I am not expecting it.

Ice dance is always a bit of a mystery to me, I don't really understand the scoring and how they different between the teams, the judging seems to be subjective and unlike the other disciplines there is less jeopardy, so I just try to enjoy the skating and not get to invested in placement.

 

[discodisco]

Thank you for asking the questions in a way that IMO leads to good discourse,

I think in this instance, this comp, in this program, Madi and Evan leaned into their skates, I saw almost no snow, I saw speed and precision on the twizzles. Now, I am not an ice dance maven, (men are my favorite discipline, although I like to think my fav skater is known for his blade control among other things ) so I could be missing something,

I agree with you about Piper and Paul today, I love that Barbie program (and I was no huge fan of Madi and Evan's RD at the start, it gave me a headache) but they just didn't attack. I know it's vague but it's the best word I can come up with. Madi and Evan attacked that RD.

I really did think there was that big a difference between them (although I may be influenced by men's singles where four points is not a humongous lead).

I think the top five placements were pretty much right. We'll see what I think tomorrow.

Thanks for explaining! I would agree that the Americans basically sold their program more than the canadians. I think this is an example of where skaters like Piper and Paul would destroy the Americans if they still had compulsory dances, which really highlight basic skating skills come a big patterns, correct edges, Etc. But I often find Piper and Paul lack passion. I guess that's the best way that I can describe it. They have this kind of quiet internalized passion that really only works in some contexts, and I've really only seen it from them in a short dance once before, and that's a couple years ago where they had that awesome Rhythm dance the same year that Piper had her appendix outer whatever she had. That's the only one they've ever skated where I thought that they owned the skate and were filled with passionate expression. Most of the time Paul has this wonderful beautiful posture but always seems a little stiff. From the knees down he's one of the best, and theoretically his posture is wonderful too up in his shoulders and back, but sometimes I feel like he needs to loosen up a bit

 

[discodisco]

Wow what a crazy competition this turned out to be. So sad for T/K and R/A. That must be so devastating for them. I’m glad the Finns managed to squeeze into the FD. Same for Fabbri/Ayer.

I’m sad Psquared aren’t in the lead and that LaLa aren’t closer to F/G in score but I agree with their scores, as both were fantastic but they have performed those RDs better before.

I have to say my top two performances were CPom and C/B. I thought they were both fantastic. CPom have improved so much and C/B really fine-tuned their RD. They skated like winners.

Although I have no doubt C/B will win tomorrow with their margin of lead, Piper and Paul always skate better when they are chasing in the FD so I hope they skate with freedom and deliver a sublime performance like last year.

I agree, I have never liked the second American team team and I typically don't think that they're anywhere near the league of the second canadians. But I think that may have been the best I've ever seen them skate any program, so I'm okay with them being so close to Marjorie and Zack

 

[chepe]

Ice dance is always a bit of a mystery to me, I don't really understand the scoring and how they different between the teams, the judging seems to be subjective and unlike the other disciplines there is less jeopardy, so I just try to enjoy the skating and not get to invested in placement.

Yep, I mostly just enjoy the spectacle and vent my outrage Truth to be told, I can only tell what I like, I can't tell if 1st ranked pair is 'better' than 3rd ranked. Maybe if it's like 1st vs 10th, then perhaps.

 

[discodisco]

No, please check, it was a reply to another poster regarding the +6.64!

Also, I happen to like C/B since I first saw them live many years ago, they are absolutely striking on the ice and nobody sells the programs like they do!

100%. I think that the Canadians are far superior in terms of skill, but you always get this impression with Piper and Paul that they are saying, hey, we love skating we're doing it for ourselves, and we have this great feeling inside right now, and you're kind of watching from the outside. In contrast, the Americans are really trying to reach out and pull people and again, they're being probably 2 years when I think Piper and Paul should have beaten them, but the Rhythm dance wasn't one of those times

 

[el henry]

Thanks for explaining! I would agree that the Americans basically sold their program more than the canadians. I think this is an example of where skaters like Piper and Paul would destroy the Americans if they still had compulsory dances, which really highlight basic skating skills come a big patterns, correct edges, Etc. But I often find Piper and Paul lack passion. I guess that's the best way that I can describe it. They have this kind of quiet internalized passion that really only works in some contexts, and I've really only seen it from them in a short dance once before, and that's a couple years ago where they had that awesome Rhythm dance the same year that Piper had her appendix outer whatever she had. That's the only one they've ever skated where I thought that they owned the skate and were filled with passionate expression. Most of the time Paul has this wonderful beautiful posture but always seems a little stiff. From the knees down he's one of the best, and theoretically his posture is wonderful too up in his shoulders and back, but sometimes I feel like he needs to loosen up a bit

I always say to the young 'uns, you haven't lived until you've seen 24 teams skate the exact same program to the exact same music. I can't really say I miss it.

 

[meem]

I can feel the weight of the haters every time my team skates and want to cry even before they skate.
I don't think I can watch dance here anymore with you folks if that is how I feel after.
I will not be joining you for the free dance. I'll watch by myself in peace and quiet.

I've always checked in here before & following competitive programs, but in the past several years I've noticed an increasing negativity toward American skaters' performances, the assumption of judging bias against CA skaters, etc.

 

[el henry]

I don't care who you're rooting for, if you don't think this is pure and good, I don't know you.

Madi's and Evan's moms watching the comp

Instagram

www.instagram.com

 

[TontoK]

I'm being disloyal and could get beaten to death with a maple leaf, but that's what I also thought while watching them. The arms and hands were just being placed correctly, not snapped. Not as crisp as the last time I saw that program.

I didn't watch the whole event, but I've seen most of the top teams.

I'm not reading this whole thread to avoid the C/B hate, but honestly, this looked like a decisive win, and the scores showed it.

Has anyone actually looked at the protocols? There is virtually nothing between them and P/P on PCS, but the levels killed the Canadians today. Blame who you want, but that's not the judges' fault.

 

[Olibritt]

I have just finished the RD competition. I'm not sure why I am not feeling ecstatic. There was nothing wrong with the competition but I'm missing something, some stellar programs maybe... maybe it's just me, who knows.

Here are my highlights:
1.- Larson/Kapran, the ukranian team. Their Bob Fosse choreo and style are amazing. This is the first time I see that team and I was wondering who was coaching them, because this choreo is superb, who would give such an amazing choreo to a team so young that ranks so low (not for long)? And then I saw Marina and all made sense and I thought what an extraordinary collaboration.
2.- Some of you mentioned Katarina's swimsuit (TUR) and I absolutely agree, It's out of place and great and original and perfect for her and the program. I love it.
3.- I'm not sure how many smash potatos I've heard. Three? Four? Even More? Guignard and Fabbri (ITA) hurt me the most, I expected a bit more of originality from them.
4.- Green/Parsons (USA). I'm used to choreos that doesn´t match the lyrics of the song they are skating to, but that usually happens with teams "in development" that don´t/can't invest much in choreos and/or teams skating to songs in a language they don´t understand (I have suffered in so many tango and latin programs ). I'm used to it but I was watching G/P program and wondering, what's their excuse? They are a top US team skating to Nancy Sinatra!!! The song talks about a woman telling her partner that if he doesn´t behave she is going to kick his ass and let him for death and their choreo looks like a couple of teenagers in love having fun in Disneyland. The best part was the rotational lift, when Nancy Sinatra is singing "these boots are made for walking" while Caroline is flying with her boots up in the air.
5.- Carreira/Ponomarenko (USA). I've never been a fan of them, I've seen them grow and get better over the years but I always missed something in them. Well, I think I'm beginning to find it... We'll see tomorrow if I can confirm that.
6.- I like the german team and their SD. I wonder if they can develop color combination skills for next season.
7.- Smart/Dieck (ESP). Top ten. I'm happy. We need it a second spot, I want Sofía/Asaf in the big competitions too next season.
8.- The falls, Lithuania and Finland teams were sent to the bottom of the ranking for a fall and LIT did not qualify for the free dance. There are changes in the score system every year but, does anybody know if there is any substantial change for these cases? I remember top ten teams' falls that weren´t that hard in the scores, including a Virtue/Moir's gold medal at the GPF with a fall in the FD.
I'm not criticizing the scores, I'm genuinely curious.
9.- I'm missing the feeling of being mesmerized by the teams in the last group. I really miss that.

 

[Ziotic]

I have just finished the RD competition. I'm not sure why I am not feeling ecstatic. There was nothing wrong with the competition but I'm missing something, some stellar programs maybe... maybe it's just me, who knows.

Here are my highlights:
1.- Larson/Kapran, the ukranian team. Their Bob Fosse choreo and style are amazing. This is the first time I see that team and I was wondering who was coaching them, because this choreo is superb, who would give such an amazing choreo to a team so young that ranks so low (not for long)? And then I saw Marina and all made sense and I thought what an extraordinary collaboration.
2.- Some of you mentioned Katarina's swimsuit (TUR) and I absolutely agree, It's out of place and great and original and perfect for her and the program. I love it.
3.- I'm not sure how many smash potatos I've heard. Three? Four? Even More? Guignard and Fabbri (ITA) hurt me the most, I expected a bit more of originality from them.
4.- Green/Parsons (USA). I'm used to choreos that doesn´t match the lyrics of the song they are skating to, but that usually happens with teams "in development" that don´t/can't invest much in choreos and/or teams skating to songs in a language they don´t understand (I have suffered in so many tango and latin programs ). I'm used to it but I was watching G/P program and wondering, what's their excuse? They are a top US team skating to Nancy Sinatra!!! The song talks about a woman telling her partner that if he doesn´t behave she is going to kick his ass and let him for death and their choreo looks like a couple of teenagers in love having fun in Disneyland. The best part was the rotational lift, when Nancy Sinatra is singing "these boots are made for walking" while Caroline is flying with her boots up in the air.
5.- Carreira/Ponomarenko (USA). I've never been a fan of them, I've seen them grow and get better over the years but I always missed something in them. Well, I think I'm beginning to find it... We'll see tomorrow if I can confirm that.
6.- I like the german team and their SD. I wonder if they can develop color combination skills for next season.
7.- Smart/Dieck (ESP). Top ten. I'm happy. We need it a second spot, I want Sofía/Asaf in the big competitions too next season.
8.- The falls, Lithuania and Finland teams were sent to the bottom of the ranking for a fall and LIT did not qualify for the free dance. There are changes in the score system every year but, does anybody know if there is any substantial change for these cases? I remember top ten teams' falls that weren´t that hard in the scores, including a Virtue/Moir's gold medal at the GPF with a fall in the FD.
I'm not criticizing the scores, I'm genuinely curious.
9.- I'm missing the feeling of being mesmerized by the teams in the last group. I really miss that.

It really depends on when the fall happens.

If on an element is disastrous, if it’s not then it’s basically overlooked.

 

[rain]

Why even skate the FD now? This is just a repeat of last year’s Worlds. Why even watch?

It's going to be even worse than last year's worlds. If you think Chock/Bates's RD score was crazy, just wait for the FD coronation.
You could see the politicking start partway through the season. All of a sudden all the comments about the FD changed from "this program is good" to "OMG, this is the best FD to ever hit the ice in the history of the sport! Groundbreaking!"
Should we take bets now? 145? 150?

 

[4everchan]

I didn’t know Patrick Chan trained in Orlando for a while. Everyone says such really nice things about him. He was really great with the kids here (one of them is now a pairs skater for the US).

Patrick is extremely nice. I have seen him around fans ( I am too private and mindful of my own privacy to chat with skaters, unless they approach me, so I have never talked to him directly) and he was so gracious, patient, caring... even when fans were asking him relatively dumb questions (my opinion) ... The reality is that back then, when he was competing, many fans didn't like him, probably because he seemed untouchable for a while... and then many fans didn't like him because he was vulnerable... Some were even happy of his troubles. I stood here, on these threads, getting myself heard, sometimes even a bit too much I am sure but it never killed my admiration for Patrick both as a skater and a human being. So this is what I wish for @labgoat or anyone who is a fan of Chock and Bates.
I understand as a fan that the skaters are not responsible for the mark they sometimes get... I understand when your skaters win and others think others should have won I know it very well At the same time, I personally find it liberating at times to ventilate about how upset the judging side of this beautiful sport can be. It's reassuring at times, to know that I am not alone in disagreeing with some of the calls made. It's therapeutic even to express that ire at some judges... Clearly here, the American judge lowballed Piper and Paul and that's just not cool. Did our Canadian judge lowball Chock and Bates ? No. Should I be disallowed from expressing my concerns about that ? No. Not after the many judging scandals that sport has endured. I hope the tech panelists and judges come here from time to time... Yes, they know better... but then, there is also a problem when many people disagree with how things are judged... Some fans here, are pedestrians like me.. but passionate ones.. but other fans are filled with commensurable knowledge about the sport and I have learned a lot from them... so it's not just a whining game about our favourites... it's also a desperate cry for better judged sport... The sport we all love.

 

[Janice4th]

9.- I'm missing the feeling of being mesmerized by the teams in the last group. I really miss that.

I thought the Canadians had the absolute best program of the night (I’m not talking technical). The energy they conveyed. The choreography that highlighted the music. Everything was great. I’ll give you that the rest of them had blah programs, but Piper and Paul really delivered a top notch performance.

 

[4everchan]

Has anyone actually looked at the protocols? There is virtually nothing between them and P/P on PCS, but the levels killed the Canadians today. Blame who you want, but that's not the judges' fault.

It can be about three things

1)The skaters not reaching their levels
2)The tech panel : Look at my post in the first page... I called it. Italian, Usa tech panel with a British tech Controller...
Who is in direct competition with the USA ? The Canadians. Who is in direct competition with the Canadians ? The Italians and the Brits For the Brits and Italians, they are even sandwhiched between Canadian teams. So, I am not going to claim that this is what is happening, but I can see why Piper and Paul could receive a double hit because they are in direct competition with both the team ahead and the teams behind them... which is not the case for the other two teams... Also, don't minimize the judges role : the GOE on C/B was extremely high ... and compared to Piper and Paul for instance, it shouldn't be that much higher The American judge had Piper and Paul in 5th place... that's enough to sank them ...
3) A combo of 1 and 2 is probably the result of this... the reality is that in my opinion, Piper and Paul have a better RD than anyone this year... so they should be ahead on the Composition mark in the PCS... their skating skills are not below those of C/B. If anything, the Italians have the best S/S. When it comes to performance, I can see how skating at home would bring the crowd down and give an understandable edge to C/B but in the end, when it comes to the final PCS score, they could have been to the advantage of the Canadians ... and they are not.

I know some fans are disliking these sorts of comments. I think it's important for the survival of the sport that the best skaters, are rewarded and in a fair manner. I'd be better with these results if the gap between the top two teams were much closer. 4 Points in ice dance is like a quad axel... The only way at this point that Piper and Paul could win it, is if Maddie and Evan have a major fall... even a minor fall wouldn't affect them that much... So this is why people are upset.. It seems like déjà vu from last year...

It's like the water droplet torture... at one point, fans can no longer tolerate these shenanigans... or the appearance of shenanigans... and this is actually very sad.... It would be much nicer if the competition felt like a true competition... everybody would win...