2018 Junior World Championships Free Dance

Can't believe it, my Canadians out of the podium can't wait to see if they move to seniors or stay one more year in juniors...

I couldn't believe that the FD was 5th for L&L, but there it was.
Shame to see it not being rewarded.

chuckm said:

The Canadians lost out by 0.66 because the judging panel (8 European judges + JPN) wanted two European teams on the podium.

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But they could easily put 3 Russians on the podium if they wanted to. Cause the truth is - S/A are clear winner here. And from 2nd to 5th there was no such a difference in this competition - it could have gone in any way. Also, how you thought individual judges can control such a small score differences, i would like to know

slider11 said:

This may give Anthony and Christina pause to stay together. Obviously the judges like them. They each have their own strengths, I just am not clicking with them as a team. They are just 17/18 so maybe it will just take time. Anthony's natural talents and basic skills are superb!

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Or may be quite the opposite. I do not think they are ready to rein in Seniors. Anthony has many years of eligibility in Juniors.

Baron Vladimir said:

But they could easily put 3 Russians on the podium if they wanted to. Cause the truth is - S/A are clear winner here. And from 2nd to 5th there was no such a difference in this competition - it could have gone in any way. Also, how you thought individual judges can control such a small score differences, i would like to know

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Wouldn’t have 3 Russians on the podium with Rettstatt as the Controller. He did his job getting the US a spot

^^^^^

Yeah, but difference between 2nd and 5th is less than 2 points. Individual judges dont know tech pannel score, nor how other individual judges scored GOE and PCS to control placements in that way. Judge can of course score better the team he likes/wants on the podium, but cant be sure it is enough to make half a point or a point difference to give some team a podium placement. I guess C/P were the luckiest one (and he has a father), but thats how sport works - someone must win and someone must lose, even they were equal (and looking at the scores you can say that teams from 2nd to 5th were more/less equal at this competition)

Couldn't watch the competition live but caught up with the top 5 FD's. It's great to see the diversity of styles among the junior teams. 2nd and 5th are just 2 points from each other, next year will be quite an exciting battle, with P/V in the mix as well.

A bit bummed that S/E couldn't sneak onto the podium but they were somewhat sloppy on the steps and had some bobbles on the later elements. They have my favourite FD of the junior couples this year and I hope they can continue to develop and bring this creative style next year.

Baron Vladimir said:

^^^^^

Yeah, but difference between 2nd and 5th is less than 2 points. Individual judges doesnt know tech pannel score, nor how other individual judges scored GOE and PCS to control placements in that way. Judge can of course score better the team he likes/wants on the podium, but cant be sure it is enough to make half a point or a point difference to give some team a podium placement

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I really like the Arina and Maxim the best so I don't think the fix was in at all. If anything I thought that Anthony and Christina and Arina and Maxim should have been both closer to S/A. While S/A were proficient I didn't buy their tango it lacked spice and precision when it mattered later in the game, they seemed to be skating on one level and there were obvious mistakes. Yanovskaya and Mosgov had a much better tango a couple seasons ago. If C/P and Arina and Maxim also had errors they did a much better job of hiding them, so maybe what ultimately separated them was levels. But I don't think when it came to the FD that S/A were that much better than 2nd and 3rd. For Arina and Maxim they just had a poorly put together SD and that held them down as well.

Copying this here for convenience from the 2019 Spots thread

2019 World Junior Championships: Ice Dance

2018 Ice Dance results: http://www.isuresults.com/results/season1718/wjc2018/CAT004RS.HTM

3 Spots

Russia - RUS - (1 + 3 = 4)
United States - USA - (2 + 6 = 8)

2 Spots

Canada - CAN - (4 + 12 = 16)
France - FRA - (8 + 15 = 23)
Georgia - GEO - (9, only team) up from 1 spot!
Germany - GER - (10 + 16 = 26)

2017-2018 Junior Grand Prix: Ice Dance

A: 2 Entries in 7 Events - Top 3 highest placing countries

(1) Russia (RUS)
(2) United State (USA)
(3) Canada (CAN)

B: 1 Entry in 7 Events - Countries 4th-6th, eligible for any unused spots from A, B, or C to add a second skater to an event

(4) France (FRA)
(5) Georgia (GEO)
(6) Germany (GER)

C: 1 Entry in 6 Events - Countries 7th - 10th

(7) Ukraine (UKR)
(8) Italy (ITA)
(9) Hungary (HUN)
(10) Azerbaijan (AZE)

1 Entry in 5 Events - Countries qualifying for FD, 11th and lower

Israel (ISR), Czech Republic (CZE), Estonia (EST)

1 Entry in 4 Events - Countries with teams placing 21st-25th in the SD

Great Britain (GBR), China (CHN), Japan (JPN), Belarus (BLR), Bulgaria (BUL)

1 Entry in 3 Events - Countries with teams placing 26th or lower in the SD

Poland (POL), Kazakhstan (KAZ), Spain (ESP)

All other countries wishing to send Ice Dance teams to the JGP can send 1 entry to each of 2 events.

Can someone who knows ice dance technically explain to me why the Canadians ended up fourth... I’m really confused.

I liked Sevchenko/Eremenko and Ushakova/Nekrasov the best. Ponomarenko is soooo good but Careira is nowhere near his caliber. Program is totally forgettable. Skoptcova/Aleshin are mature, but again, forgettable. The Canadians were like every single Montreal program, only it’s been done better by a million other teams. Wish Marie France would get a new schtick; this is getting old. I thought it was a snooze. At least the two lower ranked teams had personality and memorable choreography.

Honestly, I was not impressed by any junior team, most had very forgettable programs, maybe it's because their coaches and choreographers were extra focused on their senior teams because of the olympic season. I suppose the seniors teams can breathe easy, I do not think there could be a threat soon from these guys.

Baron Vladimir said:

^^^^^

Yeah, but difference between 2nd and 5th is less than 2 points. Individual judges dont know tech pannel score, nor how other individual judges scored GOE and PCS to control placements in that way. Judge can of course score better the team he likes/wants on the podium, but cant be sure it is enough to make half a point or a point difference to give some team a podium placement. I guess C/P were the luckiest one (and he has a father), but thats how sport works - someone must win and someone must lose, even they were equal (and looking at the scores you can say that teams from 2nd to 5th were more/less equal at this competition)

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yeah, but it's not like individual judges cannot discuss between them before the competition, something like: did you see how much the team x progressed, what amazing skating skills, steps, lifts, etc. And obviously after this kind of lobby, they will score accordingly.

I hope they were, they had tango last year, this year and will have it next year. Maybe they were building up, getting ready for that first senior year.

oleada said:

I liked Sevchenko/Eremenko and Ushakova/Nekrasov the best. Ponomarenko is soooo good but Careira is nowhere near his caliber. Program is totally forgettable. Skoptcova/Aleshin are mature, but again, forgettable. The Canadians were like every single Montreal program, only it’s been done better by a million other teams. Wish Marie France would get a new schtick; this is getting old. I thought it was a snooze. At least the two lower ranked teams had personality and memorable choreography.

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S/E's program was very interesting but I find her significantly weaker than her partner. She carries a lot of tension in her shoulders. That said, she's four years younger than Eremenko.

madison said:

yeah, but it's not like individual judges cannot discuss between them before the competition, something like: did you see how much the team x progressed, what amazing skating skills, steps, lifts, etc. And obviously after this kind of lobby, they will score accordingly.

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Yeah, but i was talking about something different... how in this situation (with that kind of scores difference between 4 teams) they couldnt possible know how to score one team to put them on the podium and lowballed another who they didnt want to be there. They could all give higher scores to C/P than what they deserved for example, but they dont know if that is enough to bring them a medal at the end (in this kind of situation).

oleada said:

I liked Sevchenko/Eremenko and Ushakova/Nekrasov the best. Ponomarenko is soooo good but Careira is nowhere near his caliber.

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Why does everyone say that? She is not as good as him but she isn't horrible?

People keep complaining about how much worse Carreira is compared to Ponomarenko, but honestly, how many top seniors are both evenly matched? There are many pairs where we hear one is has much better SS/etc than the girl/guy. At least Carreira is still just 18, give her a break.

cell said:

Why does everyone say that? She is not as good as him but she isn't horrible?

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Yes, but the difference in skill level is so glaringly obvious. But it's like the judges reward that as long as the packaging is good, case in point S/K (SinKats).

While I really like U/N after looking at their gala I realised that she, in particular, has posture issues, their basics will need lots of work. S/A are good but not special yet. Kustarova has them doing the same FD for the last three seasons now. They were bound to get it right.

It just seems to me it really takes a lot to develop a well-rounded team and none of these teams are really worth getting excited about yet.

Carreira & Ponomarenko, Skoptcova & Aleshin, and Shpilevaya & Smirnov were the favorites heading into the season. They were the only teams that had ever competed at a JGPF before or placed top 3 in an SD at Junior Worlds. They've earned the second mark, and while the tech specialists hit them for mistakes, their PCS was always likely to be higher than the rest of the field. S&S had to pull out before realizing their scoring potential this season. S&A fixed their issues from their first event and were solid the rest of the way home. C&P struggled with being the favorites and gave up too many twizzle sequences this season. Their results at this event are quite similar to Loboda & Drozd's from 2016 Junior Worlds in which they swallowed a fall in the SD and moved up to the podium in the free.

The next "tier" had a lot of teams trying to break through to the JGPF and the podium for the first time this season. Ushakova & Nekrasov pulled it off, and it was a journey for them to get there. Only 7th at last year's Russian Junior Nationals, they weren't guaranteed to get to the JGPF this season. But they defeated Polischuk & Vakhnov at JGP Italy by earning the highest FD score of the entire regular JGP season. Then lost that spot to the same team at the JGPF but defeated Lajoie & Lagha there. (Ahead in the free). Then defeated Polischuk & Vakhnov at Russian Nationals. And here passed the Canadians again in the free.

Scores were split all over the place throughout this entire season. (Solid for S&A in the SD here, but C&P forfeited the gold medal battle in that portion of the competition. As far as the other teams go, split all over the place).

Personally, I like Ushakova & Nekrasov's FD. The choreo in their short is pretty awful, but this free dance is on the edge. When I watch dance, I like to feel like the program is pushing the technical boundaries and could unravel under the challenge the athletes have set before them. U&N's Be Italian feels that way on every other element. It's got plenty of guts. I doubt they would have podiumed or maybe even have made the Russian team if Shpilevaya & Smirnov were healthy, but U&N made the most of the opportunity. Kudos to them.

The panel was very unbalanced. I do think it's worth paying heed to when looking ahead. As are the divided scores. But that doesn't make the achievement by Ushakova & Nekrasov this season any less impressive. Took out Shevchenko & Eremenko here, maybe for the first time? And that has nothing to do with the makeup of the panel.