2015 Europeans Free Dance, Jan. 29

[anyanka]

Gabriella Papadakis & Guillaume Cizeron:

Lovely Twizzles, all elements very nicely done. I would prefer better spacing with closer positions in future.

They are as light as air and remembering their last season’s dances, this is their style to look like that.

Just detail but I would like to see better hand work by Gabriella with finished movements even with fingers – she has fist sometimes and it doesn’t look nice.

Overall the FD without mistakes and the best FD of the night.

Hey sisinka, we might not agree on Linichuk & Karponosov, but I want to thank you for writing so thoroughly on each of the top five couples. Appreciate your effort in analyzing and giving your thoughts on them. Did you attend the competition in person?

 

[TMC]

*mic drop*

So true

 

[TMC]

Dunno about the Canadian press going that nuts if P/C beat W/P. Remember that P/C are coached by beloved Canadians Marie-France Dubreuil and Patrice Lauzon, and are based in Montreal. If anything, the press will likely rush to claim them as their own, as "surrogates". Heh.

Good point :yes:

 

[sisinka]

I wondered why Cizeron's one foot section in step sequence looks smaller than Papadakis If he is so much better than her. I looked closely and I agree Cizeron helps/rides Papadakis while she does her section. He uses crossovers, two foot moves so they will not lose speed. She doesn't need to get or keep speed at all. She just had to lean right edge. It is genious idea! Unfortunately this also explain their problems with side by side step sequence in short dance. Cizeron couldn't help her than. I just noticed they changed steps sequence of short dance and put more crossovers into. Don't judge them. Chock/Bates takes tea break on their step sequence but get better level and GOE. What should they do?

Cizeron's one foot section between 1.30 and 1.38
Papadakis's one foot section between 1.44 and 1.56.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3XcoA6IMEQ

That is Chcok/Bates's side by side steps by the way. I couldn't count how many crossovers/two foot skating was in it. I hope sisinka can explain difficult turns. I'm sure we will see more ''crossover sequences'' next year.

http://youtu.be/-2g6IMnLd8o?t=2m54s

Chock & Bates Not Touching Step Sequence:

Chocktaw – cross overs – Counter – hoop – Mohawk – cross over – Rocker – cross over – Chocktaw – cross over – Bracket – hoops and cross overs – Rocker + Counter + Bracket + Double Twizzle (those four difficult turns in One Foot Section) – hoops – Mohawk - cross overs – Double Twizzle

In comparison…
Ilinykh & Zhiganshin Not Touching Step Sequence:

Mohawk – hoop – Counter – Rocker + Counter + Bracket + Double Twizzle (One Foot Section) – hoop – Chocktaw – Double Twizzle – Ina Bauer – Rocker – toe step to change direction – Mohawk – toe step doing one rotation

The entering speed for both C&B and I&Z is similar. But C&B looses speed very quickly no matter how many cross over and hoops (which are helping not to loose speed so much) they are doing.

The short definition of Skating Skills is: “Overall skating quality, edge control and flow over the ice surface demonstrated by a command of the skating vocabulary (edges, steps, turns etc.), the clarity of technique and the use of effortless power to accelerate and vary speed. Varied use of power/energy, speed and acceleration.“

That is why I persist on saying that already now I&Z show Skating Skills on 9.50 points. Every couple can increase speed in cross overs or jumps. But only the best couples in past were able not to loose speed or even increase their speed doing difficult turns. From today’s couples (probably thanks to new judging system which is not really appreciating the real quality of Skating Skills and prefers acrobatic lifts more than edges work) only Lena & Ruslan can do this.

Just compare their One Foot Section…Lena & Ruslan have great ice coverage in those four difficult turns, they are not loosing speed at all, their edges are clean and deep….and then watch Madison & Evan One Foot Section – they are loosing speed, they have smaller ice coverage, small arcs, their edges are not deep…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=-2g6IMnLd8o#t=192
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1-9EHxbldE&feature=player_detailpage#t=65

P&C have also cross overs and toe steps and hoops during difficult turns in Not Touching Step Sequence. Also Guillaume has visibly worse Skating Skills then both Lena and Ruslan, he is plus minus on the level of Evan’s One Foot Section, maybe a little bit better - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvssXQH950g&feature=player_detailpage#t=187 .

In P&C‘s free dance – while Guillaume is doing One Foot Section, Gabriella is doing difficult turns…so she can’t help him. While Gabriella is doing her One Foot Section Guillaume is using cross overs and two-foot skating and you can notice than he pushes her forward. Even in this case the couple doesn’t have high speed, but I don’t like this hiding of skaters weaknesses in Skating Skills. Skating Skills means skills of every partner, not one partner who is pushed by another one. Stepanova & Bukin are skating really slow, but it doesn’t allow them to invite their coaches with skates on to physically push them forward during a program to increase their speed. Guillaume is pushing Gabriella and judges are giving GOE +2 with overall GOE about 0.4 points higher than Lena & Ruslan who shows the best quality of steps. Not really logical indeed.

I really don’t want to push technically weaker dancers to skate so difficult steps like I&Z have (especially in SD) and execute it cleanly and in high speed, it would be a nonsense and it would lead to multiple mistakes and really slooow skating by all those couples. But I am surprised that judges prefer weaker technicians who needs to hide their weaknesses in front of great technicians putting the weaker ones higher GOE in steps and higher Skating Skills. It should completely the opposite.

 

[sisinka]

Hey sisinka, we might not agree on Linichuk & Karponosov, but I want to thank you for writing so thoroughly on each of the top five couples. Appreciate your effort in analyzing and giving your thoughts on them. Did you attend the competition in person?

Thank you.

This season I didn't attend even one competition in person, my work didn't allow it.

 

[rain]

Last 8 years russian number 1 team - doesn't matter who- succesfully beaten by teams from bulgaria, france, usa, canada and even italians in 2010. Papadakis/Cizeron skates with amazing quality. This is why they are won. Can't believe Stepanova's ego. :disagree:

I have to stick up for her a bit, here. She has a point — one that's been made more than once on this board. If you are the undisputed #1 in your own country you get more consideration from the international judges than you do if you are #2 or #3 or even further down the board. And yes, there are exceptions, but they generally just prove the rule. I don't think she was even saying that the only reason P/C won here is because they are French champions, I think she was just saying that it sure doesn't hurt to be seen as your country's #1. I've seen this prove to be true for virtually every skating power in the world.

 

[bramweld]

I have to stick up for her a bit, here. She has a point — one that's been made more than once on this board. If you are the undisputed #1 in your own country you get more consideration from the international judges than you do if you are #2 or #3 or even further down the board. And yes, there are exceptions, but they generally just prove the rule. I don't think she was even saying that the only reason P/C won here is because they are French champions, I think she was just saying that it sure doesn't hurt to be seen as your country's #1. I've seen this prove to be true for virtually every skating power in the world.

For such a young team it would be more prudent to be quiet and work on their own skills in the interim. When you are that good, placement in some cases at nationals are irrelevant at international competitions, the judges simply reward the teams they think are best. They are lucky that Spain doesn't have a stronger FED, because IMHO, Hurtado and Diaz are a force to be reckoned with. I didn't get to watch their FD, but that SD was amazing. Together with I/Z, P/C, and the Shibs they have the best material for the SD. These I can review frequently. For a young team making their debut at the EC her comments were inappropriate and could be misconstrued by some as borderline arrogant or disrespectful.

 

[elif]

Chock & Bates Not Touching Step Sequence:

Chocktaw – cross overs – Counter – hoop – Mohawk – cross over – Rocker – cross over – Chocktaw – cross over – Bracket – hoops and cross overs – Rocker + Counter + Bracket + Double Twizzle (those four difficult turns in One Foot Section) – hoops – Mohawk - cross overs – Double Twizzle

In comparison…
Ilinykh & Zhiganshin Not Touching Step Sequence:

Mohawk – hoop – Counter – Rocker + Counter + Bracket + Double Twizzle (One Foot Section) – hoop – Chocktaw – Double Twizzle – Ina Bauer – Rocker – toe step to change direction – Mohawk – toe step doing one rotation

The entering speed for both C&B and I&Z is similar. But C&B looses speed very quickly no matter how many cross over and hoops (which are helping not to loose speed so much) they are doing.

The short definition of Skating Skills is: “Overall skating quality, edge control and flow over the ice surface demonstrated by a command of the skating vocabulary (edges, steps, turns etc.), the clarity of technique and the use of effortless power to accelerate and vary speed. Varied use of power/energy, speed and acceleration.“

That is why I persist on saying that already now I&Z show Skating Skills on 9.50 points. Every couple can increase speed in cross overs or jumps. But only the best couples in past were able not to loose speed or even increase their speed doing difficult turns. From today’s couples (probably thanks to new judging system which is not really appreciating the real quality of Skating Skills and prefers acrobatic lifts more than edges work) only Lena & Ruslan can do this.

Just compare their One Foot Section…Lena & Ruslan have great ice coverage in those four difficult turns, they are not loosing speed at all, their edges are clean and deep….and then watch Madison & Evan One Foot Section – they are loosing speed, they have smaller ice coverage, small arcs, their edges are not deep…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=-2g6IMnLd8o#t=192
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1-9EHxbldE&feature=player_detailpage#t=65

P&C have also cross overs and toe steps and hoops during difficult turns in Not Touching Step Sequence. Also Guillaume has visibly worse Skating Skills then both Lena and Ruslan, he is plus minus on the level of Evan’s One Foot Section, maybe a little bit better - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvssXQH950g&feature=player_detailpage#t=187 .

In P&C‘s free dance – while Guillaume is doing One Foot Section, Gabriella is doing difficult turns…so she can’t help him. While Gabriella is doing her One Foot Section Guillaume is using cross overs and two-foot skating and you can notice than he pushes her forward. Even in this case the couple doesn’t have high speed, but I don’t like this hiding of skaters weaknesses in Skating Skills. Skating Skills means skills of every partner, not one partner who is pushed by another one. Stepanova & Bukin are skating really slow, but it doesn’t allow them to invite their coaches with skates on to physically push them forward during a program to increase their speed. Guillaume is pushing Gabriella and judges are giving GOE +2 with overall GOE about 0.4 points higher than Lena & Ruslan who shows the best quality of steps. Not really logical indeed.

I really don’t want to push technically weaker dancers to skate so difficult steps like I&Z have (especially in SD) and execute it cleanly and in high speed, it would be a nonsense and it would lead to multiple mistakes and really slooow skating by all those couples. But I am surprised that judges prefer weaker technicians who needs to hide their weaknesses in front of great technicians putting the weaker ones higher GOE in steps and higher Skating Skills. It should completely the opposite.

Thank you sisinka. I used your explanation of Chock/Bates in my post.

http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/sh...r-sequences-(Ice-Dance)&p=1094919#post1094919

But I'm thinking opposite. Rules needs to push harder. Single skaters shows more difficulty than ice dancers. It is not acceptable top 10 dance team can't bothered to link two diificult turn.:disapp:

 

[KKonas]

I wondered why Cizeron's one foot section in step sequence looks smaller than Papadakis If he is so much better than her. I looked closely and I agree Cizeron helps/rides Papadakis while she does her section. He uses crossovers, two foot moves so they will not lose speed. She doesn't need to get or keep speed at all. She just had to lean right edge. It is genious idea! Unfortunately this also explain their problems with side by side step sequence in short dance. Cizeron couldn't help her than. I just noticed they changed steps sequence of short dance and put more crossovers into. Don't judge them. Chock/Bates takes tea break on their step sequence but get better level and GOE. What should they do?

Cizeron's one foot section between 1.30 and 1.38
Papadakis's one foot section between 1.44 and 1.56.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3XcoA6IMEQ

That is Chcok/Bates's side by side steps by the way. I couldn't count how many crossovers/two foot skating was in it. I hope sisinka can explain difficult turns. I'm sure we will see more ''crossover sequences'' next year.

http://youtu.be/-2g6IMnLd8o?t=2m54s

I like P&C but if we are being "picky" he does alot of two-footed skating in their FD - practically the entire 2nd half is skated on two feet.

 

[sisinka]

Thank you sisinka. I used your explanation of Chock/Bates in my post.

http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/sh...r-sequences-(Ice-Dance)&p=1094919#post1094919

But I'm thinking opposite. Rules needs to push harder. Single skaters shows more difficulty than ice dancers. It is not acceptable top 10 dance team can't bothered to link two diificult turn.:disapp:

Yes, it is true that TODAY top single skaters have better technique than top 10 dance couples at World and European Championships. And also some pair skaters have top 10 dance couples quality in technique. That is simply unbelievable and ISU should really do something with so loooow quality of technique in dance cathegory.

From World stage only Weaver & Poje have very good technique and I would say that Shibutani and in most of time Hubell & Donohue are good, surprisingly Evan Bates improved a bit and has decent Skating Skills. But the rest of world field has average or below average technique.

And if you look at European field – Ilinykh & Zhiganshin have great technique (surprisingly the best from all couple skating this season), Monko & Khaliavin have very good technique, Papadakis & Cizeron have an average technique, Stepanova & Bukin are not bad but they are sooo slow (which destroys the story about them being good technicians) and the rest of field are average technicians and below average technicians. (Not counting Bobrova & Soloviev because I didn’t see them this season.)

But if you look at marks and Levels at European Championships – even poor technicians are able to get Level 3 in both Step Sequences in FD and GOE +2, +1….then you see great technique in Step Sequeneces by Ilinykh & Zhiganshin or very good technique in steps by Weaver & Poje and they get…Level 3 and most of GOE +2, some +1. Strange. How are judges making a difference between dancers with great technique and dancers with poor technique then??????

Just for fun….Irina Slutskaya’s Step Sequences – One Foot Section…
2001 European Championships SP Irina Slutskaya:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRf0syHORQA&feature=player_detailpage#t=118

2002 Olympics SP Irina Slutskaya:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=zFEokjgJtzE#t=101

…from today’s field only Ilinykh and Zhiganshin would be able to execute this…

 

[slider11]

I have to agree that, in the end, P/B deserved the gold last year. Actually Weaver and Poje's performance was my favorite but from a technical standpoint I think Pechalat and Bourzat had the edge. Anna and Luca were the sentimental favorite after many years of almosts. It was a hard loss but I was disappointed in Nathalie's gloomy/pouty expression on the podium. Good sportsmanship requires taking the high road.

 

[Skater Boy]

I have to agree that, in the end, P/B deserved the gold last year. Actually Weaver and Poje's performance was my favorite but from a technical standpoint I think Pechalat and Bourzat had the edge. Anna and Luca were the sentimental favorite after many years of almosts. It was a hard loss but I was disappointed in Nathalie's gloomy/pouty expression on the podium. Good sportsmanship requires taking the high road.

It was the year when no one deserved gold and all three teams deserved silver. None of the teams are of the quality, uniqueness or precision of past champions. In life you can't always have super strong years in all skating disciplines - it's the odds..