2015 Worlds Men Free Skate March 28

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Funny enough, I always thought Jason looks like he's fighting some invisible person in his footwork with the kicks and dips and found it a bit odd. But now that StitchMonkey mentions the T&I storyline it makes more sense. :agree:

It's still a bit frantic on the whole... Some parts of Jason's programs seem rushed (like with Riverdance he punctuated his split jumps more). His final spin also felt like he was really trying to land on the end on the music and felt a bit rushed too (maybe because I *love* that layback catch foot and he needed to make it more of a "show stopper" to end the program).

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Also in the same folder: THE JASON STUFFIE KONSPIRACY



*unhappy sigh*

Max does. And he's the only one of the top US guys putting it in combination, too. That 4S-3T at Nationals...ah, a thing of true beauty.

The USFSA seems to be going in the opposite direction to everyone else. To them, if you don't meet a snob-nosed definition of artistry, you'll be punished, and hard.

Well it makes sense in that Max gets hammered internationally too and his PCS is lower than Jason which negates the fact that he's the best quad jumper that the US has now. Must be extremely frustrating though. No matter how much Max improved his artistry, I feel like the judges just won't give him credit and he has to rely on clean high difficulty programs.

 

[Blades of Passion]

Because a second opponent tried to attack you form the side and you were able to get rid of them with a kick.

Yes but people don't kick like cheerleaders in battle

 

[StitchMonkey]

Yes but people don't kick like cheerleaders in battle

They also don't wear ice skate, or sequins, or worry about pointing their toes and extending their limbs. It's a balance. I say the kick to the side should be viewed no more than kicking something or someone to his side.

 

[el henry]

Also in the same folder: THE JASON STUFFIE KONSPIRACY



*unhappy sigh*

Max does. And he's the only one of the top US guys putting it in combination, too. That 4S-3T at Nationals...ah, a thing of true beauty.

The USFSA seems to be going in the opposite direction to everyone else. To them, if you don't meet a snob-nosed definition of artistry, you'll be punished, and hard.

You are right, Karne, the Nats quad-triple combo was high and mightly. I apologize that I have not been following Max enough (watching a performance once is not enough for me to remember) what jumps he has hit. I just keep hoping he will find the choreo and song that *truly* works for him (although Gladiator ending-in-a-heap was rather glorious).

Maybe the theme from "Rocky?" Except Max doesn't seem to like oldies:no:

Hey, Jason's Japanese fan club tweet said something about movie music?

 

[Skater Boy]

Russia has 2 spots.

I don't think he was robbed of silver. His SP was a mess, and he was lucky to get 85 points (similar to Hanyu getting gifted with a 95). Two errors in each program for bronze. That makes sense. You're right that judges want to give him the win, but he also needs to deliver.

I don't know why he has that different trajectory going into his second 3A... it caused the same error as 4CC of him going outside of his circle and having to turnout.

true but Hanyu's short program had it been another skater may have been trashed by the judges with all the bobbles.

 

[Interspectator]

true but Hanyu's short program had it been another skater may have been trashed by the judges with all the bobbles.

One bobble on the 4T. The rest was good.

 

[Maria Victoria]

One bobble on the 4T. The rest was good.

More than good actually. And I am hard pressed to think of any other active skater who can do justice to that program, particularly the step sequence which per Chris Howarth has everything in there except the kitchen sink or might even include the kitchen sink. Res ipsa loquitur.

 

[solani]

More than good actually. And I am hard pressed to think of any other active skater who can do justice to that program, particularly the step sequence which per Chris Howarth has everything in there except the kitchen sink or might even include the kitchen sink. Res ipsa loquitur.

He also said that about Javier Fernandez's step sequence.

 

[Maria Victoria]

He also said that about Javier Fernandez's step sequence.

An admirer of Jeffrey Buttle's choreography obviously.

 

[karne]

Well it makes sense in that Max gets hammered internationally too and his PCS is lower than Jason which negates the fact that he's the best quad jumper that the US has now. Must be extremely frustrating though. No matter how much Max improved his artistry, I feel like the judges just won't give him credit and he has to rely on clean high difficulty programs.

It's a chicken and egg scenario. Are the international judges ever going to give him the marks, if he's getting ditched on home soil as well?

More than good actually. And I am hard pressed to think of any other active skater who can do justice to that program, particularly the step sequence which per Chris Howarth has everything in there except the kitchen sink or might even include the kitchen sink. Res ipsa loquitur.

Um, you are aware that this was actually not likely to be a complimentary comment, right? Including the kitchen sink is not necessarily positive. I would rather have a step sequence like Joshua's, which does NOT include the kitchen sink but is enchanting, mesmerising and with the music, than a kitchen sink step sequence like Hanyu's, Chan's or Fernandez's.

 

[Maria Victoria]

Um, you are aware that this was actually not likely to be a complimentary comment, right? Including the kitchen sink is not necessarily positive. I would rather have a step sequence like Joshua's, which does NOT include the kitchen sink but is enchanting, mesmerising and with the music, than a kitchen sink step sequence like Hanyu's, Chan's or Fernandez's.

Oh I am sure in this case, it is meant to be complimentary as he also described Yuzuru's step sequence as "fantastic." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fv6jgRhh8W4.

I also love Joshua's SL step sequence and find it amazing that he also had input in the choreography.

 

[OS]

I'm just gonna file this in the same place where I keep "Jason went to Sochi because his mum knows Arsenio Hall"

Heh... fair enough. I admit I had one of those early morning April 'fool's moment and deleted the post right after rechecking the men protocols again at worlds and thought actually that looked fine.

In hind side, I can understand why I thought that way. Jason Brown's mark for the past 2 years have been really grating me, and I just really don't understand how someone like Mrs.P can claim they never 'intended' to give it to him, when he has been repeatedly gifted with some of the most generous score in the world for a NEW SR. male figure skater (not even a Jr. World Champion) without a quad ESPECIALLY when skating at home 2 years in a row now, and the arrogant assertion no one should be allowed to criticize the obvious lack of quad factor despite getting preferential treatment, while all other US quads men getting second class hand me downs that undoubtedly limit their international standing and ability to progress.

Put it this way, in the same year Hanyu with his world record breaking SP only received 43 PCS at Japanese Nationals (already inflated), Patrick Chan 44 (Canadian Nationals '12), Maxim with the humongous piss take inflation from Russian Nationals only received 43.90, here's Jason with one of the most hokey Alena Lenova like program (short of blowing kissess to the judges and slap his hiney) got 44+ and it is apparently totally fine. How can it not be double standard?! And totally worthy.

 

[TMC]

Has anybody actually said that people shouldn't be allowed to criticize him, for his lack of quad or for anything else?

(Apart from the one user, who is really being sarcastic)

 

[Violet Bliss]

This thread has really turned into a Jason Brown thread.

Brown is not exactly my cup of tea but I recognize him as one of the better skaters and all things considered the best US Man right now, being the national champion and highest ranked US Men skater at Worlds. 4th place is extremely respectable. As for his lack of a quad, it is a fact and a very limiting factor for medaling at major events like GPF and World Championships. However, I wouldn't be surprised if he adds a quad sometime soon. Unlike most skaters whose training is often reactive, Brown's development is more systematic, planned and executed over a longer term. Quad is in the plan so it will likely be there even if not within the time frame demanded by many.

 

[Interspectator]

I wonder, now that Misha has gotten his 3A's rotated and landed, will he too, try a quad? Is it too late in his career to be messing with that?
My sister and I love Misha's programs this year. And agree that his 3As are 'cozy'. They don't cover much distance, they aren't monsters, but they are clean and well, cozy looking.
Anyway, would it be better for Misha to squeeze as much out of a quad-less program next season? Or should he try to train a quad?

 

[StitchMonkey]

In hind side, I can understand why I thought that way. Jason Brown's mark for the past 2 years have been really grating me, and I just really don't understand how someone like Mrs.P can claim they never 'intended' to give it to him, when he has been repeatedly gifted with some of the most generous score in the world for a NEW SR. male figure skater (not even a Jr. World Champion) without a quad ESPECIALLY when skating at home 2 years in a row now, and the arrogant assertion no one should be allowed to criticize the obvious lack of quad factor despite getting preferential treatment, while all other US quads men getting second class hand me downs that undoubtedly limit their international standing and ability to progress.

Just say Max Aaron. Please, it would make so much sense.

The only USA Men that had successful quads this Grand Prix were.

Max Aaron SP Skate Canada 4S+2T +1.29 GOE Same in the FS for +.43

Stephen Carriere SP Skate Canada 4T +1 GOE

Richard Dornbush FS Cup of China 4T +.71 GOE

Stephen has not metaled in the Grand Prix since 2009 and withdrew due to injury from Nationals. He also strangely did not even do the exhibition in Skate Canada, and frankly I wonder if he just did not have one because he did not expect to do that well. He has not even been on the circuit since 2011. I don't think he earned a bye to Worlds.

Dornbush's head clearly was not on skating this year. Between wearing different blades on his feet and his mother having typhus, that is understandable. I hope he comes back and he could easily be a force next season, but I don't think he qualifies for "wuz robbed!" this year.

Max is our only guy that has an quads and an argument he should be going to worlds. He is it. If you feel quads are that important, that is who wuz robbed and no one else.

This thread has really turned into a Jason Brown thread.

Brown is not exactly my cup of tea but I recognize him as one of the better skaters and all things considered the best US Man right now, being the national champion and highest ranked US Men skater at Worlds. 4th place is extremely respectable. As for his lack of a quad, it is a fact and a very limiting factor for medaling at major events like GPF and World Championships. However, I wouldn't be surprised if he adds a quad sometime soon. Unlike most skaters whose training is often reactive, Brown's development is more systematic, planned and executed over a longer term. Quad is in the plan so it will likely be there even if not within the time frame demanded by many.

So many threads turn into Brown threads. He leaks.

I wonder, now that Misha has gotten his 3A's rotated and landed, will he too, try a quad? Is it too late in his career to be messing with that?
My sister and I love Misha's programs this year. And agree that his 3As are 'cozy'. They don't cover much distance, they aren't monsters, but they are clean and well, cozy looking.
Anyway, would it be better for Misha to squeeze as much out of a quad-less program next season? Or should he try to train a quad?

I suspect he will work on it. Who knows how he will do. I am glad he stuck around though. Now when guys are struggling with their 3A we can point to him.

 

[Mrs. P]

In hind side, I can understand why I thought that way. Jason Brown's mark for the past 2 years have been really grating me, and I just really don't understand how someone like Mrs.P can claim they never 'intended' to give it to him, when he has been repeatedly gifted with some of the most generous score in the world for a NEW SR. male figure skater (not even a Jr. World Champion) without a quad ESPECIALLY when skating at home 2 years in a row now, and the arrogant assertion no one should be allowed to criticize the obvious lack of quad factor despite getting preferential treatment, while all other US quads men getting second class hand me downs that undoubtedly limit their international standing and ability to progress.

I stand by what I say regarding Jason's status pre-Sochi. I can take all the same nationals stats and show a completely different picture. But I'm not going to. It's not worth my time and effort when you clearly have a hardline view on this.

We're just going to have to agree to disagree regarding this, I certainly do not want to drag the men's worlds thread on this one, especially when there's no proven correlation between his Nationals scores and his performance at Worlds. Ultimately I'm not prohibiting you from criticizing, it's just that not everyone agrees with your assertions, just as people don't agree with the ones I may make. That doesn't make them arrogant, just people with a different view.

 

[dorispulaski]

os168, there's two questions I would like to ask you. Others have asked on this thread a d you have not answered yet. Exactly what skater do you think USFSA has deliberately held down in favor of Jason?

and the second is, have you ever seen Jason live in competition?

 

[OS]

I stand by what I say regarding Jason's status pre-Sochi. I can take all the same nationals stats and show a completely different picture. But I'm not going to. It's not worth my time and effort when you clearly have a hardline view on this.
We're just going to have to agree to disagree regarding this

I appreciate and respect that, but to claim this young upstarter's so so SP that managed the 2nd HIGHEST EVER SP score in US National Championship history with PCS that has been marked higher than multiple worlds champions, world records breakers at their own inflated nationals is not a sign of USFSA's support/favouritism/propping up then I don't know what is.

os168, there's two questions I would like to ask you. Others have asked on this thread a d you have not answered yet. Exactly what skater do you think USFSA has deliberately held down in favor of Jason?

and the second is, have you ever seen Jason live in competition?

1. It is hard to say, but I remember being frustrated for Jeremy, Adam and Josh. Ricki, don't know what happened to him, he was a mid season fav. Not a fan of Max, but after revisiting the protocols for both nationals, I feel sorry for him. Plushy would have never become a legend in the US. If Jason skated for Russia, I wonder will we be having this conversation.

2. Not had the chance...I realise that can make a difference. I will pay alot of money to see skaters, but he is not on my list (but not many people these days, maybe when Patrick returns vs Hanyu. May be Jeremy or Tessa and Scott returns with programs that are magic.).

Jason is a very exciting talent, but the difference between his mark from his previous best international event 79.75 at Skate America vs US Nationals 93.36 is too jarring for me to take him seriously... but hey I am just be a bitter frustrated fan of US mens. He seems to have brought some good attention to the sport in the US, and that can only be a good thing, hope it lasts.