2016-2017 Japanese Nationals Men's FS

[Biellmann]

I finally had a chance to watch Shoma's FS. Reminded me of Gracie Gold's nervous skates although, to be fair to Gracie, she's never finished one of her skates sobbing her heart out (on or off the ice). I'm guessing the pressure of being the favorite got to him.

Odd that it took so long for the PDFs to finally be posted. Some pretty blatant URs that weren't called (when I can see them in real time, that means they're really bad). Will be interesting to see if he gets away with that outside of Japan.

And that's the problem. Now, he is the new national champion, the pressure on him is probably going to be even bigger now. :confused2:
As long as Yuzuru is still around, he can feel "safe", Yuzuru still has the most pressure, but when this is not the case anymore, how is Shoma going to handle it, especially with his weak technique? :noshake:

 

[Biellmann]

Yes, Mr. Yamamoto has iffy 3A and weaker edge jumps but his toe jumps are ok. His skating skills are good. He skates bigger than his rivals at the same age. But he has been unlucky for 2 seasons. Maybe he will be ok by 2019.

It makes me sad that he is probably going to miss the olympics. Even when he is back next season and in good form, i don't think he can get the judges love in such a short time... or maybe he can?

 

[demarinis5]

Sorry if this has already been posted. Nice Icenetwork article on the podium finishers.

http://web.icenetwork.com/news/2016/12/21/212244104

 

[Khoai]

It makes me sad that he is probably going to miss the olympics. Even when he is back next season and in good form, i don't think he can get the judges love in such a short time... or maybe he can?

We don't even know if Mr Yamamoto is healthy enough for the next season.

 

[BlackAxel]

Mr. Chen needs to work on PCS but he can work on his less than Mr. Jin from Chinese fed. Mr. Chen's quads are average but still better than Mr. Uno's quads which are kind of cheating. If Mr. Uno goes against Mr. Chen, then he will be punished. And it is actually easy to punish him. Mr. Uno has cheated take-off while Mr. Chen does not.

In the short program, Mr. Uno is overscored compared to Mr. Chen. Mr. Uno has double the amount of crossovers compared to Mr. Chen in SP, less one foot skating than Mr. Chen. If they go against each other again, Mr. Chen might have the advantage.

People don't understand how powerful USFA is. There has been a talk about USFA want a limit on the quad because their men can not jump quad. Now they have Mr. Chen, if he can stay healthy, then he will be the chosen one.

If the USFA is succesful in limiting the number of quads, wouldnt that work against Chen? Without the quads, Chen wouldnt even be in included in the bigger picture. Implementing such a rule would help skaters like Chan and Brown (if he is able to secure at least 1 or 2 quads).

I am not going to dispute the fact that Uno has a lot of crossovers in his program and not the best technique on his jumps. In terms of the overall skating skills and spins/footwork/choreography, Shoma is better than Chen.

 

[Khoai]

If the USFA is succesful in limiting the number of quads, wouldnt that work against Chen? Without the quads, Chen wouldnt even be in included in the bigger picture. Implementing such a rule would help skaters like Chan and Brown (if he is able to secure at least 1 or 2 quads).

I am not going to dispute the fact that Uno has a lot of crossovers in his program and not the best technique on his jumps. In terms of the overall skating skills and spins/footwork/choreography, Shoma is better than Chen.

If Mr. Chen somehow gets a bit of consistency, he will change USFA's view. We will see how they decide by US national. USFA will chose the final skater to support by the end of the season, after WC. They might go for for limiting quads, or they might go for letting it free. It all depends on how Mr. Chen will do.

About Mr. Chen vs Mr. Uno, in fact Mr. Chen is already better than Mr. Uno in the SP. Mr. Chen uses 11 crossovers and some transitions in his SP while Mr. Uno uses 24 crossovers and the overall transitions are lesser. The layout? Mr. Chen has more difficulty and he does not cheat in the take off like Mr. Uno. The quality of skating, Mr. Uno is better but the gap is not too big. Mr. Chen's structure and execution in his short program should be enough to cover that. They're both average in transitions.

In fact, Mr. Uno was overscored compared to Mr. Chen in the SP at GPF. Mr. Chen and Mr. Uno LP are about the same when it comes to transitions and footwork and Mr. Chen's quantity makes up for the gap in quality.

If Mr. Chen stays healthy and be more consistent, he will be above Mr. Uno sooner or later.

 

[formersk8ter]

If Mr. Chen stays healthy and be more consistent, he will be above Mr. Uno sooner or later.

You may be right, but you are assuming that Shoma will not improve in jump technique or add more artistry/transitions.

But Nathan is really impressive and has a lot of artistry within him as well.

 

[Khoai]

You may be right, but you are assuming that Shoma will not improve in jump technique or add more artistry/transitions.
But Nathan is really impressive and has a lot of artistry within him as well.

At that age if you haven't fixed your technique, it's almost impossible to fix it later. Mr. Uno still has a flutz no matter how hard he has tried to fix it. If you see the slow motion of his take of in the toe jumps when he was 10 and compared it to his current technique, it's still that same bad habit. I do not say you can not fix it. But after all those 10 years he has not fixed it. He has too many issues to fix it. My coach says Mr. Uno uses double the amount of energy for his quads compared to other better jumpers. Of course this is just her observation you don't have to believe in her.
It doesn't mean Mr. Chen has really good jump technique. But it's still better than Mr. Uno.
Transitions they can add, but fixing the jump technique? I highly doubt.

 

[BlackAxel]

If Mr. Chen somehow gets a bit of consistency, he will change USFA's view. We will see how they decide by US national. USFA will chose the final skater to support by the end of the season, after WC. They might go for for limiting quads, or they might go for letting it free. It all depends on how Mr. Chen will do.

About Mr. Chen vs Mr. Uno, in fact Mr. Chen is already better than Mr. Uno in the SP. Mr. Chen uses 11 crossovers and some transitions in his SP while Mr. Uno uses 24 crossovers and the overall transitions are lesser. The layout? Mr. Chen has more difficulty and he does not cheat in the take off like Mr. Uno. The quality of skating, Mr. Uno is better but the gap is not too big. Mr. Chen's structure and execution in his short program should be enough to cover that. They're both average in transitions.

In fact, Mr. Uno was overscored compared to Mr. Chen in the SP at GPF. Mr. Chen and Mr. Uno LP are about the same when it comes to transitions and footwork and Mr. Chen's quantity makes up for the gap in quality.

If Mr. Chen stays healthy and be more consistent, he will be above Mr. Uno sooner or later.

I see that you have used the word, "consistency," throughout our exchange of posts. Point blank, it is very difficult to keep up with a 6-Quad program (SP + FS), both in terms of consistency and the effects that it can have on the human body. What exactly is your take on "Mr. Chen getting a bit of consistency" ... ?

As for your claim that the quality of skating not being too big of a big gap between Chen and Shoma ... Chen received a PCS of 84.42 vs Shoma's 90.94 for the FS at the Grand Prix Final. Mind you, Chen made very little mistakes compared to Shoma who skated first.

The judges are more likely to give Shoma the edge if both skaters skate clean.

 

[Biellmann]

I see that you have used the word, "consistency," throughout our exchange of posts. Point blank, it is very difficult to keep up with a 6-Quad program (SP + FS), both in terms of consistency and the effects that it can have on the human body. What exactly is your take on "Mr. Chen getting a bit of consistency" ... ?

As for your claim that the quality of skating not being too big of a big gap between Chen and Shoma ... Chen received a PCS of 84.42 vs Shoma's 90.94 for the FS at the Grand Prix Final. Mind you, Chen made very little mistakes compared to Shoma who skated first.

The judges are more likely to give Shoma the edge if both skaters skate clean.

"Clean" means fully rotated jumps as well- something Shoma doesn't have. He can learn a lot from Chen

 

[demarinis5]

and on the same note Chen can learn a lot from Shoma

 

[Khoai]

I see that you have used the word, "consistency," throughout our exchange of posts. Point blank, it is very difficult to keep up with a 6-Quad program (SP + FS), both in terms of consistency and the effects that it can have on the human body. What exactly is your take on "Mr. Chen getting a bit of consistency" ... ?

As for your claim that the quality of skating not being too big of a big gap between Chen and Shoma ... Chen received a PCS of 84.42 vs Shoma's 90.94 for the FS at the Grand Prix Final. Mind you, Chen made very little mistakes compared to Shoma who skated first.

The judges are more likely to give Shoma the edge if both skaters skate clean.

If Mr. Chen can prove himself to USFA, he will have better chance next season. USFA is pretty much hopeless in ladies right now, if they can see a light for their men, they will take it. This season would be just the beginning for Mr. Chen if he somehow learned to become more consistent.

People should not forget that, most US men don't have cheated take-off.

Having said that, I even think Mr. Boyang Jin will be decent future, much more than Mr. Uno and maybe Mr. Chen.
His technique isn't bad. His improvement might take a long road but he might survive it until 2022.

 

[Khoai]

and on the same note Chen can learn a lot from Shoma

Mr. Chen's SP already has better structure, transitions and less crossovers than Mr. Uno. In fact he should have scored higher than Mr. Uno in the SP at GPF.

 

[demarinis5]

Well write a letter to the judges then. Merry Christmas!

 

[Khoai]

Well write a letter to the judges then. Merry Christmas!

No need to. As long as USFA acknowledges Mr. Chen as their No.1 contender, the rest of the field will be alarmed. People don't understand how much powerful USFA can be. Look at the PCS and the generous calls Miss Gold got when she's still their No.1. Too bad she doesn't have the mentality. On the contrary, Mr. Chen seems to have it.

 

[DiamondDust]

Both Nathan and Shoma are talented skaters. Nathan has better TES and Shoma has better PCS, both still have a lot to work on and improving will be a continuous learning process. Every competition will be different.

If it's amongst Nathan, Shoma and Boyang however, Boyang may edge over the two in the future -- just maybe . There is still also Sota, don't know how he doing now but can't say he isn't a strong competitor either. Or perhaps some dark horse will show up stealing the show? :dev2: . In any case, it'll be interesting to see who of the four will rise up to the top.

 

[Khoai]

Both Nathan and Shoma are talented skaters. Nathan has better TES and Shoma has better PCS, both still have a lot to work on and improving will be a continuous learning process. Every competition will be different.
If it's amongst Nathan, Shoma and Boyang however, Boyang may edge over the two in the future -- just maybe . There is still also Sota, don't know how he doing now but can't say he isn't a strong competitor either. Or perhaps some dark horse will show up stealing the show? :dev2: . In any case, it'll be interesting to see who of the four will rise up to the top.

I'd say Mr. Chen might take it less labored than Mr. Uno when it comes to improve his overall score. Because his current SP is very balanced when it comes to choreography and transitions. Mr. Uno's SP is pretty much hollow compared to Mr. Chen's SP. Both their LPs are about the same. So it's not wild to say that Mr. Chen and his coach have some idea about constructing better programs than Mr. Uno and his coaches.

I agree about Mr Jin if he manages to stay healthy. He has the natural jump ability and ok basic take off. I think Chinese fed is focusing on him for 2022 which is the better strategy as it will take quite a long time for him to improve his PCS. But of course, Mr. Jin might do well in 2018 too.

 

[Biellmann]

Well, Chen beat Shoma at GPF :confused2:

 

[BlackAxel]

"Clean" means fully rotated jumps as well- something Shoma doesn't have. He can learn a lot from Chen

As far as I am concerned a clean skate is one in which the protocols show a performance free of any "carrots" and falls. This is usually not determined by fans such as you and I ;-)

 

[BlackAxel]

If Mr. Chen can prove himself to USFA, he will have better chance next season. USFA is pretty much hopeless in ladies right now, if they can see a light for their men, they will take it. This season would be just the beginning for Mr. Chen if he somehow learned to become more consistent.

People should not forget that, most US men don't have cheated take-off.

Having said that, I even think Mr. Boyang Jin will be decent future, much more than Mr. Uno and maybe Mr. Chen.
His technique isn't bad. His improvement might take a long road but he might survive it until 2022.

Well let's just wait and see if Chen's body can keep up with the technical demands that his programs call for. If he is able to skate up to the Olympics without any major injury, then yes he deserves to be crowned as the new King of US skating.