2016 Cup of China Ladies SP

[da96103]

3salchow-3loop, 3flip-3loop, 3loop-3loop.

She can land those combos, of course she won't add these right now because she doesn't need it and a loop combo is risky: you don't have time to set the second jump.



Yes, unlike Julia, Zhenya trusts Eteri a lot.

That doesn't mean they won't train other ladies: figure skating is moving forward, Alina Zagitova this season has all the jumps in the second half for both the SP and the LP including the hardest 3-3 (3ltz-3lo), Rika Kihira already has the 3A, but Evgenia wants to stay relevant by the time this girls will move to seniors, that's why she is traning new combos.

Zhenya, the little Hanyu.

 

[mrrice]

Why so many people think Evgenia hasn't gone through puberty?

This is a good question. There are some skaters who are just naturally thin and will always be that way. Seriously, Alissa Czisny was, and is, very thin. Sasha Cohen and Maria Butyrskaya could not have been more than 100lbs/45kg during their competitive careers. Maria has a kid and she is still as tiny as ever. According to her Bio, Med and Maria are exactly the same height and like Maria, she may not grow any taller or fill out much more. From what I can recall, Kristi Yamaguchi is the smallest skater I've ever seen. Followed closely by Lu Chen. Tonya Harding is not very tall but, has a much more athletic figure. For the Men, the title goes to Armin Mahramzadeh...

 

[happyskate6]

Are you referring to Evgenia? Because that's not what happened: she built that PB at every competition with clean performances and a huge bv in her programs. FS scores went high by the time she moved to seniors but that's because her previous FS at juniors was atrocious, judges never liked it. Same opposite for her FS last season, judges loved it from the start.
...
2015 Rostelecom Cup: 67.03 / 139.73
2015 Skate America 70.92 / 135.09
-----------------------------------
2015 Junior Worlds: 68.48 / 124.49
2014 JGP Final: 67.09 / 123.80

While let's see Osmond scores.

2016 Skate Canada: 74.33 / 132.12
---------------------------------
2016 Four Continents C.: 56.14 / 119.49
2015 NHK Trophy: 57.07 / 111.41
2015 Skate Canada 59.21 / 86.85

These are Kaetlyn's scores from the season AFTER breaking her leg. Look at her scores from 2012-2014

 

[MaiKatze]

Maybe it is wrong to call it 'puberty'. I think the main reason why many people belive that is that we've seen these wonder-skaters before. Those who hit every jump who were very consistent and then - all of a sudden something changes. Maybe it's not even the body....but more the mind. If you're young and everything works for you, you are confident. You feel like you can rule the world. And then as you get older, you start to "think"- You start to doubt...you start to fail and you start to lose your confidence. You're not that carefree anymore. And maybe that's almost as important. She seems more child than woman to me and her programs aren't helping. So far I've not yet seen her really fall apart. I don't wish that for her, but the question is, what will she do then?

 

[andromache]

This is a good question. There are some skaters who are just naturally thin and will always be that way. Seriously, Alissa Czisny was, and is, very thin. Sasha Cohen and Maria Butyrskaya could not have been more than 100lbs/45kg during their competitive careers. Maria has a kid and she is still as tiny as ever. According to her Bio, Med and Maria are exactly the same height and like Maria, she may not grow any taller or fill out much more. From what I can recall, Kristi Yamaguchi is the smallest skater I've ever seen. Followed closely by Lu Chen. Tonya Harding is not very tall but, has a much more athletic figure. For the Men, the title goes to Armin Mahramzadeh...

I think the assumption comes from the fact that no skaters have sustained a jump technique similar to Evgenia's post-puberty? At least none that anyone else has ever mentioned.

And it isn't all about weight and height. Bone growth changes with pubescent hormone stuff going on (aka estrogen) and the pelvis tends to grows a certain way in ladies, which, in my non-expert opinion, could impact jumps even more than height/weight gain. For the most part, the ability for women to execute certain jumps (3A, quads, -3Lo) seems extremely limited after puberty, regardless of height/weight, training, etc, which makes me wonder if it could be pelvis difference?

 

[Sugarpova]

Oh just realized who Courney's coach reminds me of!!
None other than Roger Moore!!

 

[mrrice]

I think the assumption comes from the fact that no skaters have sustained a jump technique similar to Evgenia's post-puberty? At least none that anyone else has ever mentioned.

And it isn't all about weight and height. Bone growth changes with pubescent hormone stuff going on (aka estrogen) and the pelvis tends to grows a certain way in ladies, which, in my non-expert opinion, could impact jumps even more than height/weight gain. For the most part, the ability for women to execute certain jumps (3A, quads, -3Lo) seems extremely limited after puberty, regardless of height/weight, training, etc, which makes me wonder if it could be pelvis difference?

These are excellent points! When I was skating, I wasn't too tall, I was flexible, and fearless. Unfortunately, my groin, and more specifically, my Hip Flexor Muscles, were not having it. After popping my hip flexor for the second time, my career was over. A blessing in disguise as it turns out.

 

[Osmond4gold]

Oh just realized who Courney's coach reminds me of!!
None other than Roger Moore!!

Roger Moore? That's Todd Sands, as in US Pairs champs Meno & Sands. They were world pairs medalists (silver & bronze) some 20 years back. If I remember, they got engaged at the 1994 Olympics in Lillehammer.

 

[mrrice]

Roger Moore? That's Todd Sands, as in US Pairs champs Meno & Sands. They were world pairs medalists (silver & bronze) some 20 years back. If I remember, they got engaged at the 1994 Olympics in Lillehammer.

It's Definitely Todd Sand (No-S). He and his Partner/Wife were known as The Prince and Princess of the US Pairs back in the day. His Wife is as pretty as he is handsome and they both had Very Red Hair back then. I haven't seen Jenny Meno in quite a while. I have always wondered what their kids would look like. Talk about good gene's.

Here's their SP from 1998 Worlds. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRqfASjj4ew

 

[SarahSynchro]

Evgenia has not yet completed her puberty, Polina quite probably yes. She has better jumps, higher, completely rotated and is a bit more mature in her presentation than Xhenia. I think Eteri will see which one starts better, and then will support unconditionally that one, being Xhenia or Polina. The other one will be let to drop on her own (see what happened to Julia as soon as she started to deliver unsuccessfully. And the same applied to Pitkeev and Voronov. They stopped to skate clean, she reserved all her atttention to Xhenia. And it was at the beginning of last season !).

I hate to further steer this discussion down the off topic rabbit hole, but I don't think it's fair when everyone assumes that Eteri was fully responsible for Julia's departure from Eteri's troupe because she started to struggle and was therefore regulated to the second tier. I adore Julia, but she's been known to be a headstrong, outspoken, no-nonsense kind of girl, which isn't a bad thing, but it can lead to head butting and opinion clashing, especially when things stop going to plan. If the student-coach relationship wasn't gelling anymore, we shouldn't fault Julia for moving elsewhere, just as we shouldn't blame Eteri for letting Julia go and shifting her focus to her other students. AND we shouldn't assume that Eteri will dump Evgenia if she ever loses her consistency.

We don't know what went on behind closed doors, and we definitely shouldn't be jumping to conclusions based on observations from a few minutes in the various kiss and cries. Julia knew what she wanted, and she knew she couldn't get that from Eteri, and vice versa.

Sometimes these relationships simply don't work out. Playing the blame game is useless and gets us nowhere. They've moved on, as should we.

I also hate that I'm talking about Julia in a thread for a competition she didn't even compete in.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

What is the problem you guys have with Kaetlyn?

What I see is:

- BIG and rotated jumps with great speed, power, height and flow
- Nice presentation
- Superb transitions
- Good positions in the spins (plus nice speed)
- nice overall flow
- personality

I forgive her the unclear lutz edge because that jump is so spectacular when she does it well.

I am European by the way, not Canadian.

Her "problem" is that she's Canadian, not European.

I think a lot of people see her as an unconventional figure skater who has personality and vivaciousness. She's not the archetypal ice princess skating to balletic, classical music, and even though I joked about it, she's not from the US, Russia or Asia, and some people just have an irrational hate of Canadians skaters.

 

[mrrice]

Her "problem" is that she's Canadian, not European.

I think a lot of people see her as an unconventional figure skater who has personality and vivaciousness. She's not the archetypal ice princess skating to balletic, classical music, and even though I joked about it, she's not from the US, Russia or Asia, and some people just have an irrational hate of Canadians skaters.

How could anyone possibly hate Canada? The people are so nice, the food is delicious, the cities are clean and beautiful........And, Well, let's just say there's a certain skater who lives there that I love.....However, it wouldn't be "PC" of me to mention his name. Okaay :agree:

 

[Osmond4gold]

Her "problem" is that she's Canadian, not European.

I think a lot of people see her as an unconventional figure skater who has personality and vivaciousness. She's not the archetypal ice princess skating to balletic, classical music, and even though I joked about it, she's not from the US, Russia or Asia, and some people just have an irrational hate of Canadians skaters.

Canadians are not suppose to be in "the Club", dontchaknow. And when they do, it's all about chan-flation, or body shape/lines and not being a true romantic couple (Meagan & Eric). Today, it was about Kaetlyn not having done the time for the score.

To naysayers I say, ...please get real and a life!

 

[emdee]

Canadians are not suppose to be in "the Club", dontchaknow. And when they do, it's all about chan-flation, or body shape/lines and not being a true romantic couple (Meagan & Eric). Today, it was about Kaetlyn not having done the time for the score.

To naysayers I say, ...please get real and a life!

Hear, hear as we Canadians say!

 

[Tolstoj]

Either way, that's still wrong. No way Brian Orser gives preferential treatment to Javi or Yuzu thinking "Well if my favorite Yuzu bombs, I'll have Javi ready to go." As a coach, your job is to prepare each individual skater to the best of YOUR and the best of their ability, even if it means the one the you like more might lose to the other one. Give each skater 100% and then let the best skater win; don't try to ensure that one will beat the other. That's so messed up!

I sincerely hope you're wrong about Eteri and she is 100% committed to preparing not only Evgenia but Polina for OGM.

I think there is a different situation here: Eteri has a current senior world champion, and lots of junior skaters.

Obviously the focus is more on Evgenia now, because she has to keep the momentum at seniors (where there is much more pressure) and she has to keep this consistency even in the future (what Julia didn't have), but that doesn't mean the other skaters are less important.

Next year hopefully, Eteri (as Brian now) will have two top female skaters and she will treat both equally.

I don't think there is difference with other coaches: Ashley is still clearly Raf main skater the focus is more on her rather than Adam Rippon, Mariah Bell, Hannah Miller,...

 

[Tolstoj]

Canadians are not suppose to be in "the Club", dontchaknow. And when they do, it's all about chan-flation, or body shape/lines and not being a true romantic couple (Meagan & Eric). Today, it was about Kaetlyn not having done the time for the score.

To naysayers I say, ...please get real and a life!

But that's actually the truth: whenever you have a great canadian skater, Canada has that tendency to push him/her so clearly. I remember few years ago with Joannie Roachette was the same story.

I don't know is that a selfish attitude by canadians? Do you think just Canada (or US) can have the top skaters? What's going on?

Look at the canadian judge here: all 9 and +3 just for Kaetlyn. I'm not saying US, Russia or Asia aren't doing this but with Canada is so evident.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

But that's actually the truth: whenever you have a great canadian skater, Canada has that tendency to push him/her so clearly. I remember few years ago with Joannie Roachette was the same story.

Look at the canadian judge here: all 9 and +3 just for Kaetlyn. I'm not saying US, Russia or Asia aren't doing this but with Canada is so evident.

The Canadian judge here was wayyy out of line. But her scores would probably be thrown out in almost every case and not affected her standing. Not to mention, as you've said, other judges have been really unabashedly pro-home country skaters and we could find tons of examples.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Canadians are not suppose to be in "the Club", dontchaknow. And when they do, it's all about chan-flation, or body shape/lines and not being a true romantic couple (Meagan & Eric). Today, it was about Kaetlyn not having done the time for the score.

To naysayers I say, ...please get real and a life!

They're okay with us being polite and nice and whatnot... until we start winning. Duhamel/Radford weren't getting half the hate when they were only getting World bronze, but when they took measures to win, all of a sudden everyone was up in arms.

Now that Kaetlyn is actually giving the top skaters a run for their money (still early to say for sure), everyone is looking for reasons and ways to tear her down.

 

[andromache]

But that's actually the truth: whenever you have a great canadian skater, Canada has that tendency to push him/her so clearly. I remember few years ago with Joannie Roachette was the same story.

I don't know is that a selfish attitude by canadians? Do you think just Canada (or US) can have the top skaters? What's going on?

Look at the canadian judge here: all 9 and +3 just for Kaetlyn. I'm not saying US, Russia or Asia aren't doing this but with Canada is so evident.

Your observation of the Canadian judge in this instance is accurate. However, using that one example to bash Canadians is completely ridiculous.

And also, has literally nothing to do with the comment you're responding to. What do the judging patterns of individual Canadian judges (who do not reflect the rest of the judging panel who also gave Kaetlyn high scores) have to do with Kaetlyn being deserving/undeserving of the rest of the scores she received?

 

[robredo40]

for Canada Haters how would the rest of the world fare without our coaches and coreographers.