2016 Finlandia Trophy Mens SP

[silverfoxes]

Okay, i thought you were sarcastic on Kovtun because in this forum there aren't so many fans of him unfortunately.

Shout out to Inna, she deserves much respect at CSKA, Maxim was great also two weeks ago at the Russian Cup (clean SP and almost clean FS)

The usual suspects will continue to bash him even though he has improved...and if he wins, they will still claim their skater is "better" and the results were wrong/don't matter. Rinse and repeat for every competition. It gets old real fast.

 

[Tavi...]

So this was very interesting! My thoughts on the top three guys:

Kovtun: he was actually performing! Ive always thought he was overmarked in PCS, but he's made real strides (yes, he still has a way to go). His jumps looked a lot better - not as muscled - and even some of his spins were decent. I felt really sorry for him last year, but he seems to have gotten his confidence back, and that's nice to see. I'm kind of rooting for him this year.

Patrick: he seems to be using his upper body more expressively, which I like. His flow over the ice is beautiful. It's the first competition of the season and he's just changed coaches, so it's understandable that things are a little rough - hopefully he will resolve his jump problems before SC. I have to say, though, as beautiful as his flow over the ice is, I actually don't think he was undermarked in PCS. The program still felt very tentative to me, and the problems on the first two jumps were intrusive, IMO.

So, Nathan. He's improved a lot since Golden West! His 4Z was amazing, and his step sequence was excellent. Considering his TES was 50+ despite losing levels on his spins and 3 not so great jumps, his scoring potential is mind boggling. That said, although his presentation is better for sure, I have to disagree with whoever said he has the "it" factor. For me he still seems to be doing what he's been told to do. You can see he's studied ballet and is using what he's learned here, but he doesn't strike me as someone who's a naturally good dancer, like, say, Tessa Virtue. Overall, though, great senior debut! I'm willing to bet he'll give it everything he's got tomorrow.

 

[Spinning]

The usual suspects will continue to bash him even though he has improved...and if he wins, they will still claim their skater is "better" and the results were wrong/don't matter. Rinse and repeat for every competition. It gets old real fast.

Exactly! If he bombs, his haters will be jumping in the trashing train faster than Barry Allen. Nothing new there.

Okay, i thought you were sarcastic on Kovtun because in this forum there aren't so many fans of him unfortunately.

Shout out to Inna, she deserves much respect at CSKA, Maxim was great also two weeks ago at the Russian Cup (clean SP and almost clean FS)

Join in with you for a shout out! Must be a great fun trainning environment for Elena. Wishing Inna a good recovery from her health issues.

 

[xibsuarz]

I just had the chance to watch the top 3 men of the event (need to catch up on the rest later! Daniel :sad21: ). My personal favorite was Patrick, regardless of the jumps. I think the music heavily influences my decision, for I love Blackbird and I think it matches beautifully with Patrick's smooth skating. As it was to be expected, the program is not perfect yet, but it will be great to watch it throughout the season (now if only Youtube didn't decide to mute every video of it....)
Sure, Maxim's SS are not on par with Patrick, but his program was still a lot of fun to watch! His programs change radically when the jumps are there. It was sad to see him struggle last season, perhaps this SP will help him break that streak :yes:
Nathan, first of all for going for a 4Lz and a 4F in the SP (and landing the 3A!) I'm not the biggest fan of the music, but that's just me. He is not on the PCS level of the other American men, but who knows? Those two quads could give him the TES boost to place himself at the top (if he stays injury free, please)

 

[Jammers]

I believe if he stays healthy Nathan is the skater who is the future of US men's skating. He has the quads and is already improving other parts of his skating and is muchmore artistic then someone like Jin.

 

[Skater Boy]

I also believe Nathan could be the future of skating in general. But I do not see the natural star quality of say Brown or great skating skills or magic. Years ago there was a skater named Elvis Stojko now I am not saying Nathan is Elvis but he had great tech abiliities and unlie Chen (who is still young) he had distinctive style that I think undeermarked or appreciated. You may not like it but he kept the performance alive and the style consistent. Then there is Surya - she would just have music in the back ground. Chen if he stays healthy will have great jumps with huge difficulty adding to his score but he has a long way stylistically though usually high tes brings decent pcs. At what cost though these difficult quads will bring is yet to be seen if any.

 

[Skater Boy]

I have to say while I like Patrick's sating and I do believe the system does not give him enough credit; I have no faith in him as a skater any more in respect to jumps. He can't compete and it is so sad. It is so sad he will not have the success of Evan L who truly though I am sure a nice guy and good competitor was nothing special. Programs good but no great. Personality - blah. Good jumps but not huge and no quad. Spins good but not fab. Footwork solid but not special.

 

[Blades of Passion]

Patrick's music is distracting for me because Adam Rippon just used Blackbird last year and did it with more style. It's extra distracting on a meta level because Adam should have beaten Patrick at Worlds, so now having Patrick skate to this music is a constant reminder. I don't mind the birds in the soundtrack at all, however, and objectively I think it's a fine enough program.

Nathan Chen is a prodigy for sure, but I don't like his modern Quad technique (and obviously the axel is a mess). He barely gets those rotations and thus the quads don't really look like quads. Very whippy. He has good basics and a lot of potential for artistry, though.

Maxim Kovtun has a good LP this season but the SP is just so-so. He doesn't really embody the boisterous quality of the music. He is more moody and dramatic. Also, his flying camel is so bad.

 

[Tolstoj]

I believe if he stays healthy Nathan is the skater who is the future of US men's skating. He has the quads and is already improving other parts of his skating and is muchmore artistic then someone like Jin.

Jin's technique as far as i remember from last season (we will have to see if he keeps it) is so much better, his 4ltz is literally twice the height of Nathan's 4ltz, but apart from that i agree with you, he is by far the best US men skater i've seen for a while.

Is he switch the coach though? There was Marina Zueva with him in the K&C.

 

[VIETgrlTerifa]

Jin's technique as far as i remember from last season (we will have to see if he keeps it) is so much better, his 4ltz is literally twice the height of Nathan's 4ltz, but apart from that i agree with you, he is by far the best US men skater i've seen for a while.

Is he switch the coach though? There was Marina Zueva with him in the K&C.

He was with Marina to polish up his presentation and work on skating skills, but Arutunian is still his coach. Marina also choreographed his SP.

 

[Heleng]

Nice to see Kovtun looking satisfied and skating well after last season. Love Kolyada, hope he's able to be as successful with his short as he was last year. And Nathan, wow!

 

[Meoima]

Jin's technique as far as i remember from last season (we will have to see if he keeps it) is so much better, his 4ltz is literally twice the height of Nathan's 4ltz, but apart from that i agree with you, he is by far the best US men skater i've seen for a while.
Is he switch the coach though? There was Marina Zueva with him in the K&C.

Boyang is the much better jumper. The height in his quad lutz is astounding. He has much better elevation in his jumps than Nathan. Both of them are toe jumpers though. Boyang is more of a jumping prodigy than Nathan. But of course Boyang has much left to improve especially his presentation.

 

[Violet Bliss]

He was with Marina to polish up his presentation and work on skating skills, but Arutunian is still his coach. Marina also choreographed his SP.

And Patrick adopted a little brother.

 

[Art&Sport]

The usual suspects will continue to bash him even though he has improved...and if he wins, they will still claim their skater is "better" and the results were wrong/don't matter. Rinse and repeat for every competition. It gets old real fast.

Kovtun deserves credit for trying to find music and a style that is better suited to his limited interpretive abilities. Kovtun is much improved and his performances are more interesting to watch. He does not deserve to be panned as a person and an athlete who strives to improve. The only issue I have is that historically the judges have overscored Kovtun on PCS whenever he adequately (and sometimes inadequately) lands his jumps. Therefore, the fact that Kovtun has improved is fairly negligible because the judges clearly have never scored him as if they thought there was room for improvement. hwell:

Despite his obvious work and clear improvement, there is still no way that Kovtun should be tied with Nathan and Kolyada on choreography, and points ahead of both on interpretation! :dumb: :scratch3: Apparently, mugging and miming with OTT facial expressions means you have above average interpretive skills. :con2:

Fine re Kovtun being in first overall by a small amount, because if Nathan had not fallen, he would have edged Kovtun slightly for first place. What I disagree with is the judges not scoring PCS accurately, which obviously is a lost cause no matter the discipline or event. :curse:

 

[JustMe]

Some thoughts after watching the top 3 men's programs twice:
--Love Patrick's skating, loved Dear Prudence, accepted Blackbird, hated the chirping in the music, and other than both songs being by The Beatles, don't see how they connect (which I think is something to think about when using lyrics).
-On second viewing, found myself laughing at the chirping, and was about to be ok with it, but then during his final spin I yelled at my screen "Someone please shoot that freaking bird, NOW!
-He clearly has the best skating skills here, but somehow I feel this short program doesn't show them off as much as past programs have (maybe it's the layout, particularly the last 50 seconds being simply 2 spins with a transition in between).
-Even with the mistakes, he committed to performing this program, more so than in other flawed programs.
-I miss the second step sequence in short programs (would have loved to see him do a Kurt Browning-esque, fast & furious straight line step sequence across the ice, with fancy toe-pick work and all).
--Nathan was a pleasant surprise for me. I actually found this program more complete, or thought-out than Patrick's (meaning, theme/motif is clear from start to finish).
-I thought, "wow, a young man from the US with real podium chances in major international competitions..."
-Not sure if it was him or the camera, but I struggled to find Nathan's face/eyes throughout this. If he can deliver his face/eyes to the audience and truly perform this by the end of the season, I would predict some of his PCS scores to go up because it truly is a well constructed, choreographed program, and it suits him so much better than last year's free skate.
--Maxim was Maxim, but appeared slower than I remember (maybe due to early in the season), but I hope as the season progresses, he learns to truly drive this program and not get caught in the monotonous rhythm of the music. (BTW, the trumpet in the music made wish he would skate to one of those fast, fun intrumental songs from the Pulp Fiction soundtrack--or heck, even that would be great music for Max Aaron to skate too, lol)
-Feels like a safe program for him to regain confidence in himself, and that could be a smart move, as long as Plushenko doesn't announce another comeback...
--Overall, I agree with the placements.

 

[Crossover]

I only saw Nathan and Patrick's performance and I love their programs.

I can't say I liked Patrick's Mac the Knife last season's SP because I think jazz music is rarely delivered well except few cases but I love this one with chirping sounds of birds. The program is like recollecting Patrick's childhood or dreaming about freedom. I wasn't reminded of Adam at all because Adam's program was horribly edited with so many songs of the Beatles. I can't believe Jeffrey Buttle choreographed it...well, good choreographers can make bad works sometimes. Blackbird was completely buried in the program, so I completely forgot about it. Going back to Patrick, the suspenders look good on him. TBH, I didn't like the blue vest and white shirts. Even though his jumps were not ready for the new season, his bladework was supreme.

I don't think Nathan's costume is ready yet, but don't care even if his costume would be the one at here. He possess great presence on the ice and charmed me with his interpretation. The music is a bit conservative, but the way he moved on the ice was charismatic and right with the note. Not to mention, his 4Lz-3T was impressive enough.

 

[MIM]

Kovtun' SPs from last year and this year are both capitalizing his strength and charming and entertaining nature of him. These are the qualities equally appreciated in figure skating. He is not afraid of showing who he is. Kudos to that.

Chan's sp was a breath of fresh air. He could have forced himself to produce something grand, an artistic masterpiece, especially after the announcement of working with Zueva. Instead, he went with a simple-minded and light- hearted music. The opening choreo including one push across the rink (only after couple of crossovers) to a 4toe(fell though) blew me away. Plus, his camel spin variation with an arm extended shows perfect balance and control. He went back to basics and it was highlighted in the program.

Chen surprised me technically and artistically. Clearly he is on the right track. I agreed with a poster( I am sorry I cannot recall the name /thread) in that he seemed losing lyricism, musicality he had a few years back in the course of too much focus on quad training. But maybe not any longer. I waited for somebody to do justice to Le corsaire ( https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=k3wZu9gBuK8) as a skating program. I like the athleticism and grace of the ballet and in my head it was easy to transfer to a figure skating program. Last season I hoped Michal would clean his FS but..,,, i am beyond thrilled to see Nathan skate to this music. What a perfect choice of the skater for the music and vice-versa!

 

[Mrs. P]

Chen surprised me technically and artistically. Clearly he is on the right track. I agreed with a poster( I am sorry I cannot recall the name /thread) in that he seemed losing lyricism, musicality he had a few years back in the course of too much focus on quad training. But maybe not any longer. I waited for somebody to do justice to Le corsaire ( https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=k3wZu9gBuK8) as a skating program. I like the athleticism and grace of the ballet and in my head it was easy to transfer to a figure skating program. Last season I hoped Michal would clean his FS but..,,, i am beyond thrilled to see Nathan skate to this music. What a perfect choice of the skater for the music and vice-versa!

I had mentioned that in the U.S. men's thread. Thanks for the shoutout!

I do think that Nathan is working on the artistry side and I think his work with Marina showed here.

It will be interesting to see his FS, where there are a lot more quads. We saw with Boyang last year that he had a great snappy SP, but his FS felt more like a jump fest until perhaps Worlds.

 

[MIM]

I think Jorik and Ivan, and their rivalry also add great joy to the competition. At the euros last season, they caught my eyes with extroverted performances and the fact they both skated to "you raise me up" in their sp. Ivan finished ahead last season but I am betting on Jorik this year. He is well prepared and does not repeat the sp.

 

[MIM]

I had mentioned that in the U.S. men's thread. Thanks for the shoutout!

I do think that Nathan is working on the artistry side and I think his work with Marina showed here.

It will be interesting to see his FS, where there are a lot more quads. We saw with Boyang last year that he had a great snappy SP, but his FS felt more like a jump fest until perhaps Worlds.

Oh, it was you, Mrs.P. I felt your genuine concern for him from your post.

I agree Boyang's FS was only half successful last season. It is exciting to see the young skaters push the boundary every year. I cannot wait to see their FS this season. Now Nathan has a perfect team Arthurian and Zueva behind, only sky is the limit for him.