2017 Four Continents Men SP

[Mathman]

That's not how that works....

Well, I think it does sort of work that way some times. Put on a great show, hit all your elements, and in general your PCSs rise even without an increase in skating skills, doing a greater variety of transitions, etc. (Boyang Jin is somewhat of a a counterexample.)

As to how it should be, that is a separate question.

 

[xox]

I have just watched Nam Nguyen and I have no idea why he was scored so low. His Axel and Quads looked OK...Not the best SS, still it's weird.

He underrotates his jumps.Called cheated jumps in the old days. His skating skills edges speed power and spins are not comparable to top skaters

 

[xeyra]

Well, I think it does sort of work that way some times. Put on a great show, hit all your elements, and in general your PCSs rise even without an increase in skating skills, doing a greater variety of transitions, etc. (Boyang Jin is somewhat of a a counterexample.)

As to how it should be, that is a separate question.

A higher PE score with comparatively lower SS score would be fair in Boyang's case, for example, but that's not how things are apparently done, when PCS seem to be marked in a corridor of pretty similar results regardless of whether they should. Though it's a bit amusing when people do consider PCS to basically be skating skills because I sometimes believe judges think so too.

Edit: Actually, considering previous posts of mine, I think I do put a good deal of importance in good skills too, so I can't blame the judges.

 

[Arriba627]

He underrotates his jumps.Called cheated jumps in the old days. His skating skills edges speed power and spins are not comparable to top skaters

I woke up this morning right as Nam was finishing his skate so haven't had a chance to see him yet. How was his speed? He was super slow at Skate America. The audience was cheering him on, as it was sort of his come back after his disastrous finish to last year's season. I've always enjoyed him and felt so bad for him at Worlds last year. He won the bronze at Skate Amer in 2014, and he has grown SO tall since then!

 

[xox]

Kerry is a lovely skater with good SS. I don't know why Nguyen and Reynolds should be getting higher components than him.

Thoroughly agree!

 

[TontoK]

I think that there is legitimately some overlap. The Program Component Scores are the judges' opportunity to give their opinion as to the quality and effectiveness of the program taken as a whole. If you incorporate your highlight elements -- the big jumps, etc. -- into the choreography, this ought to be a plus for the CH score, and if you flub your quad, that reduces the overall impact of the program in terms of both presentation and choreography.

For musical interpretation, a highlight element landed right on the beat of the music is a plus and a fall is a minus in terms of INT.

When it comes to PCSs, I am not too exercised about bullet points, etc. More important, IMHO, is: How did the program as a whole grab you?

By this criterion I do not dispute the fact that Nathan Chen's performance-taken-as-a-whole was a hum-dinger, while Chan and Hanyu took a small relative PCS hit despite Patrick's mature balletic grace and the unique Hanyu-ness of Yuzuru's skating. Nail those quads; your PCS will automatically go up. :yes:

Honestly, I sort of agree with this.

When watching a program, I'm not mentally ticking off a point value of what is done, and I scratch my head in wonder at those who can differentiate between a 42 PCS program and a 43 one, or who confidently proclaim that a SS score of 8.75 should have been 8.5.

For me, it's a simple question... am I interested in the program or am I absolutely riveted? Or do I wander off to grab a snack in the middle?

 

[ramurphy2005]

I think this is why artistics gymnastics has always been my sport of choice. I don't understand a thing about its scoring and I can't see protocols for them, but I understand when a gymnast does well and what is more difficult or better executed, so I always take the scores given at face value and accept them well. Figure skating is weirder in this respect with the COP rules, because, for example, the whole rotating jumps and falling is less costly than popping a jump is something that takes a bit to get used to!

I really enjoy watching gymnastics, too. My sister was a gymnast through high school, and she now coaches gymnastics so I understand a lot of nuances from watching her and watching elite competitions with her.

I admit that gymnastics sometimes influences how I think the COP should work even though I know that's not how it works.

 

[xox]

Kevin has been around for a very long time and has never broken into the top. He is turning 27 and no true progress

 

[karne]

Kerry is a lovely skater with good SS. I don't know why Nguyen and Reynolds should be getting higher components than him.

Well, doesn't it stand for "Points for Canadian Skaters" after all?

It's all about the flags next to their names.

 

[Rissa]

Life isn't fair I like Nathan as a person. He seems to have good work ethic - I mean the guy came back from major surgery But for some reason things come relatively easy to him - he is getting amazing pcs considering, I know his short is better, he does not get the edges, glide, strength or mastery compared especially to even an off Chan. I don't think he should be ahead of Brown either. If I were Canada I would be tempted to dump Reynolds and go with Nadeau who is up and coming. He really has not regained his up and cmong status form 2013 and doesn't have the skating skills.

Broken legs, hips, multiple surgeries, missed major events... That's "things come relatively easy"? I hate to think what you'd call "hard".

 

[shine]

I hate to be one of those Nathan Chen bandwagonners, but my god. I love this kid. I hope his Olympic-season LP is ballet-inspired. He pulls off the balletic movements and sensibility (from my limited knowledge of ballet) better than any man of this era, and he makes it look effortless. When Mama Chen had him doing ballet and figure skating, she knew what she was doing. His footwork sequence is to die for.

Thank you. IMO Chen's presentation is so underrated. I understand that the FS is a jump fest and I personally tend to skip it as well, but this SP is just sublime. He has the most beautiful arms and carriage in the business. And the classicist in me just cannot fight a good ballet program when it's done so well with authenticity, musicality, and flair. That said, I do think he could've skated this program with more "oomph" than he did this time.

 

[frida80]

I just did the math. Add 139 pages, this thread has the same number of pages as the other three short program threads combined!

 

[Art&Sport]

Why is Kevin Reynolds skating so early?

Maybe someone already answered your question pages ago. Kevin was out injured for awhile, and is making a comeback. When that happens, you lose World rating points which means you get relegated to starting with an early group made up of other skaters either new to seniors or lacking in high point totals. Correct me anyone if I'm wrong or I didn't describe the reason accurately.

 

[4everchan]

Well, doesn't it stand for "Points for Canadian Skaters" after all?

It's all about the flags next to their names.

Ermmm. You are talking as if they had scored huge pcs. They did not. Also, the 3 canadian men received carrots. Some were obvious, other were borderline. I like kerry. He could be scored higher. So many others could have too. The pcs system is broken now that one can score almost 60 in tes. I am always trying to give the benefit of the doubt to the judges as they were there and got the performances first hand. Come on! With the camera work we were treated with lol there is very little way to be a good judge here. Lol. But, if i trust the judges, i think that they are a bit in a rut because the system no longer works. Patrick is above everyone in my humble opinion. Yet, he had a fall and a step out. Judges are reluctant tobreward such skates nowadays. Then, you have a guy like Nathan who shows up and delivers. Should he be held down too much ? I think that the ranking expressed by the judges for the top 4 or 5 skaters isn't awful but there is not enough difference allowed within the current system. However, there are some scores that remain crazy and i wonder where they were found.

 

[formersk8ter]

And GRIM finally got his quad meal after waiting so long.

What is GRIM?

 

[samson]

I'm sure this has been discussed and my apologies for asking again but I tried navigating these 139 pages and failed miserably!

But Jason Brown's triple lutz was given < and it looked whistle clean to me. I would have even marked it +2. Can anyone illuminate what went on there? I even watched it in super slo mo from both angles the feed showed and I see no discernible reason for that call.

 

[apple123]

I love Shoma Uno, however, I'm not sure I would have given that skate 100+. In slow mo his 4T looked a bit under and should have been UR'd like they did with Nam.

This is what I have been saying. How can they only let Shoma get away with it while punishing everyone else? It's beyond me.

 

[siberia82]

He won the bronze at Skate Amer in 2016, and he has grown SO tall since then!

Nam won the SA bronze in 2014.

 

[Mrs. P]

I'm sure this has been discussed and my apologies for asking again but I tried navigating these 139 pages and failed miserably!

But Jason Brown's triple lutz was given < and it looked whistle clean to me. I would have even marked it +2. Can anyone illuminate what went on there? I even watched it in super slo mo from both angles the feed showed and I see no discernible reason for that call.

There's a bit of a hook-looking landing on the end, but it wasn't super severe IMO, definitely within 1/4. I think a different caller would have deemed it OK. But alas, that's life.

Arguably, the callers didn't call his 3Z from U.S. Nationals, which looked far more <.

 

[Mathman]

I hate to be one of those Nathan Chen bandwagonners, but my god. I love this kid...

Nathan, Nathan, he’s our man!
He’s ahead of Patrick Chan!

Nathan, Nathan, good for you!
You’re ahead of Yu-zu-ru!

Nathan, Nathan, for the win!
He’s ahead of Boyang Jin!

Nathan, here’s your quad diploma!
You’re ahead of Uno Shoma!