2018 Nebelhorn Trophy Free Dance

[Skatie]

G/P are really showing us they can do so many styles, yet make it their own. This Vincent program was so moving to me and hit every musical high and low. The British duo Govardo, who they collaborated with to rearrange and perform the song for the Free Dance, were there to watch them perform it-artists on the ice and in the music! It’s been a tough off season for Piper with the passing of her Mom and Grandma and a recent injury that kept them off ice for a while. Kudos to Piper and Paul. I can’t wait to see both program continue to grow.

 

[litenkyckling]

Looked like he bobbled the third twizzle to me when I watched in real time, but I haven't learned all the rule changes to know how it should affect the score/GOE yet.

Ah yes thank you! Now I've watched it back I see that - I'm blaming the camera angle and the fact that the one camera didn't follow the twizzles so some was a bit disjointed

 

[NoNameFace]

Saying this reminds me of how they got underscored during 2016 Worlds and the 2016-2017 season. Okay G/P made some twizzle mistakes, but H/D are make twizzle mistakes all the time and they aren't underscored like G/P are.

A bit of digression here, but in touch with Piper and Paul - sometimes watching ID I have this weird notion that judges seek for 'couple-friendly' material on first place rather that just team stuff or a challenging, out of the box stuff; it is this desperate search for romantic connotation inside of the dance: dramatic/exaggerated or this softer version, but there has to be a couple feel, imitating being on love preferably, either to warhorse story or some classical music. These are safe concepts that resonate well and soundly with judges. Stuff like Gillrs/Poirier are doing though... They are always balancing on the egde of creative, original challenge to their image as a TEAM, never defining themselves as a ID couple from the get-go; I agree that they have not helped their case with on/off execution of their programs many times and could not estabilish a steady peak and reputation growth scoring-wise, but repetoire-wise they are an absolutely unique team with strong signature ID of originality and variety who could do actually both 'couple' and more individual concepts, a team who adapt dance styles briliantly to their aesthetic of choice. And I feel that judges do not like that type of thing: risk, challenge and too much stress put in individuality of the team than unity of a 'couple'.

 

[Lester]

Saying this reminds me of how they got underscored during 2016 Worlds and the 2016-2017 season. Okay G/P made some twizzle mistakes, but H/D are make twizzle mistakes all the time and they aren't underscored like G/P are.

And let's not forget that H/D are coached in the currently cool camp

 

[WeakAnkles]

A bit of digression here, but in touch with Piper and Paul - sometimes watching ID I have this weird notion that judges seek for 'couple-friendly' material on first place rather that just team stuff or a challenging, out of the box stuff; it is this desperate search for romantic connotation inside of the dance: dramatic/exaggerated or this softer version, but there has to be a couple feel, imitating being on love preferably, either to warhorse story or some classical music. These are safe concepts that resonate well and soundly with judges. Stuff like Gillrs/Poirier are doing though... They are always balancing on the egde of creative, original challenge to their image as a TEAM, never defining themselves as a ID couple from the get-go; I agree that they have not helped their case with on/off execution of their programs many times and could not estabilish a steady peak and reputation growth scoring-wise, but repetoire-wise they are an absolutely unique team with strong signature ID of originality and variety who could do actually both 'couple' and more individual concepts, a team who adapt dance styles briliantly to their aesthetic of choice. And I feel that judges do not like that type of thing: risk, challenge and too much stress put in individuality of the team than unity of a 'couple'.

Spot on. Which is one of the reasons why even the best brother/sister teams have a hard time cracking the podium. ID judges are so staid and backward looking. Papadakis and Cizeron started out with an absolutely fantastic FD to Woodkid. It's still the most interesting FD they ever did. And it went nowhere scorewise. You may think a program like To Build a Home is all avant garde, but it still can be read as a romantic program. Certainly the Mozart program was as trad romance as you can get, and it was the program that broke them through. I am still waiting for P/C to do something as off-beating interesting as the Woodkid, but given the way judging is, I'm not holding my breath.

Aggressive creativity is NEVER REALLY REWARDED in skating. Ask Toller Cranston. But if you candy coat that creativity in the context of what can be read as a romantic program (it doesn't have to be, it just has to be able to be read that way), the the judges are more likely to take the bait. Case in point: Torvill and Dean's Bolero.

In twenty years time, people will look back at Piper and Paul and realize just how creative they were. And finally realize the unacknowledged influence they've had (like stationary lifts, which didn't really take off until after P&P's Hitchcock program which started off the craze for them).

It's all pretty sad.

 

[Lester]

Well I kind of remember the majority of people on the forum complaining about their programs being too weird and inaccessible too before the tango FD. And not without reason, at times Piper and Paul were somewhat stubbornly pushing their line (such as the Beatles SD), and they are certainly more mature now and look at the bigger picture.

It's not necessarily all about romance, when it comes to the judges, it's more about digestible rousing feeling I think. Which mostly lacked from their previous programs because they were usually super high brow and controlled and more intellectually and aesthetically pleasing than, you know, being a moment. Like take a look at the SD from last season. Absolutely flawless in concept, fascinating in detail. And yet W/P's rumba moved me more, even if it was not that much of an artistic statement (if at all). That's the thing when you are doing something supercreative. You have to be careful that it does not become a bit too meta, too self-involved, too on the nose in its uniqueness.

That said, they are certainly a pair which always seeks to do something new and does not settle for a tired or an inauthentic program. I think they are finally grasping at true magic this season: craftsmanship and feeling combined. I really hope they finally make it to the podium, I think now they are worthy.

 

[NoNameFace]

And let's not forget that H/D are coached in the currently cool camp

Oh, I forgot about 'cool camp' factor! There is something to be said about this, because each era in ID had this 'cool' and 'less cool' camps which somewhat reflected (and still reflects) in results/scoring. All these teams flocking to Montreal now... I find it good and beneficiary only if a team moving has some vision, idea about themselves already or has some sense of direction they want to go with; excluding 'home teams' who were there since their junior times, I think that for a moving team from somewhere else as seniors, a total change in style, aesthetic, presentation (especially just to suit and fit into presumably desired image by judges) could not be successful.

A bit of throwback, but I always found Muriel Zazoui extremely underrated aside of her work with champions teams, I always felt like she was not a 'cool camp'...

And Carol Lane & Co. - she is certainly not a crowd pleaser, has her (often controversial) opinions on things and speaks her mind pretty openly amid stir caused, but from her work with teams standpoint for me she creates some of the most original, stylish programs, Piper and Paul being a flag example of course, but I also like her work done with some junior teams

 

[NoNameFace]

Well I kind of remember the majority of people on the forum complaining about their programs being too weird and inaccessible too before the tango FD. And not without reason, at times Piper and Paul were somewhat stubbornly pushing their line (such as the Beatles SD), and they are certainly more mature now and look at the bigger picture.

It's not necessarily all about romance, when it comes to the judges, it's more about digestible rousing feeling I think. Which mostly lacked from their previous programs because they were usually super high brow and controlled and more intellectually and aesthetically pleasing than, you know, being a moment. Like take a look at the SD from last season. Absolutely flawless in concept, fascinating in detail. And yet W/P's rumba moved me more, even if it was not that much of an artistic statement (if at all). That's the thing when you are doing something supercreative. You have to be careful that it does not become a bit too meta, too self-involved, too on the nose in its uniqueness.

That said, they are certainly a pair which always seeks to do something new and does not settle for a tired or an inauthentic program. I think they are finally grasping at true magic this season: craftsmanship and feeling combined. I really hope they finally make it to the podium, I think now they are worthy.

Ah, Beatles SD times with that weird, contemporary FD concept I fell in love from the first sight, good times. I agree that these early times of their partnership could weird people too much and make them to be seen only as quirky weirdos with some cool tricks here and there, but I do believe that these maybe hard in reception times really brought them into the place they are now, having that sense of artistic freedom around themselves, effortlessly adapting new styles/ways of expression to their aesthetic adding emotional pallete to it.

As for judges, I agree with PSquared stuff being too crazy on extremes sometimes to appreciate the concept in originality, however I really see them leaning more towards programs with rather strong romantic notion to it, like a singular one presented in rather straightforward form with aesthetically pleasing movement (I also sense giving such programs more of a pass with difficulties in execution tbh). PSquared nuancing in the program theme is already a maestry for me: they grew to make it controlled and pretty 'universal' in reception of course, but last season I loved too the soft sensuality in their interpretation by expression & movement with spicy quirk added. They slowly amped the quirk/off path factor just right, but never resigning from it which I respect and command.

This season's programs indeed are looking crafted just on point, balancing perfectly between this individuality of original concept/original interpretation of a dance style (RD) and openess in emotional side of performance, both in movement and expression. There is an air of artistic freedom around both programs, but also a quiet confidence in them.

 

[Heleng]

I do think that a lot of people may thought that they will go all out, more dramatic or full-on quirk, accommodating Van Gogh theme harder - yet they continue on surprising us with another change in stylistical direction, disovering another side of themselves as performers, interpretators, creators, artists... What got me into their partnership is this very adaptation to different aesthetic feature, but kind of putting a personal spin on everything, originality and innovation in terms of movement and presentation.

This is another step on this journey, I think that this program captures effortlessly maturity, thoughtfulness with a bit of youth, airy feel in it, making that reflection, an impression of emotions they carried into the program mixed with how they change along with the music, lyrics, movement. It is a bit of a moving painting.

:agree: I am totally in love with both of Piper and Paul’s programs.

 

[Jeanie19]

Here

I just watched Piper and Paul's free dance. I hope they rise in their rankings. It is so breathtakingly beautiful.

 

[tinlizzie]

I just watched P/P FD and I’m so moved by how beautiful it is I was in tears about 15 seconds in.

 

[TontoK]

I really enjoyed the middle of G/P program. The beginning with that opening gimmick flip over the shoulder thing - not so much. And they are the absolute masters of the awkward cornball finishing pose.

But still, I haven't enjoyed this team much in the past, and this program held my interest, and I want to see where it goes as the season progresses. That's not faint praise on my part.

The best ice dancer in this field was young Ponomarenko, although I didn't see the Parsons. Video was blocked, and tbh I didn't search too long for another one.

 

[pearly]

Hm, love the colour of Piper's dress, ot sure a out the appliques...

It’s evocative of van Gogh’s painting.

What I wonder is the opening and the closing position. Is it supposed to be a reference to Vicent or no?

 

[pearly]

This video of G/P speeds up around 2:45, doesn't it? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pD1RkqRPWj8

 

[Hyena]

I'm very impressed by both programs Gilles/Poirier had here. The FD in particular I thought was sloppy in parts - in a completely expected way for the first comp of the season - but with interesting and evocative moments throughout. I think it will grow tremendously this season.

In fact, I'm going to go ahead and predict a World medal for them this season Feel free to save this post and embarrass me with it later!

 

[Lester]

It’s evocative of van Gogh’s painting.

What I wonder is the opening and the closing position. Is it supposed to be a reference to Vicent or no?

It reminded me of an easel.

 

[Lester]

What continues to fascinate me is how they managed to portray the relationship between an artist and his art/muse so subtly: how genius more or less possesses a man when it demands to be realised. I mean this could have been cartoonishly literal in less capable hands and yet their interpretation is almost profound.
It also reminds me in a way of their Hitchcock FD where the director had a somewhat similar relationship with the "Hitchcock blonde" (another uncontrollable force? ), not the same thing by far, but a similar type of dynamic by a creator and that which can barely be controlled or even understood.
Paul here tries to grasp at his muse a lot during the program and I particularly like that part where he goes slightly mad (twizzles with the hands around his head) while his muse just follows freely and unperturbedly, alive and generous. It's all very interesting. I don't know how they were able to find the right tone, I think this program was a huge risk.

 

[LadyB]

In fact, I'm going to go ahead and predict a World medal for them this season

If that happens, You’ll be my hero forever! :agree:

 

[skatemd1]

The best ice dancer in this field was young Ponomarenko, although I didn't see the Parsons. Video was blocked, and tbh I didn't search too long for another one.

I thought Parsons was much better, finally found their video. Enjoyed it even more the 2nd time. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irmvpdglSUs
I think after watching both, Parsons are a much better team. More power and emotion than Carreira/Ponomorenko, who are good too, but you can tell they don't quite have the same polish. Good future though. Of course, loved Piper & Paul's performance too, and think they will be on medal stand come worlds.

 

[oly2018]

I see the power in the Parsons, but necessarily the emotion. Rachel does most of the emoting in that team. I much prefer C/P and I enjoy their FD, but next season, I would love to see them try a different style. They do soft and romantic really well, but I think they could do well with something edgier. I am excited to see all of these teams at Nationals this year. The fight for 3rd-8th will be more interesting than the top 2 imo.