2021-2022 Russian Men's Figure Skating

[lariko]

True. And, while I don't understand Samarin's program at all, it resulted in good scores in the LP, better ice coverage, and great spins. I do hope you are right and the coaches are realizing BV isn't the only thing that matters.

He was also able to do the detailed footwork that gave him level 4 step sequence in both short and free. Basically, he was doing objectively better and his amazing combo was a beautiful opener with everything else supporting it. I am hoping this is the direction they are going to take instead of ‘and when he is marginally better, 2x4Lz!’ I think he can do very well with that content.

 

[JustSomeGuy]

He was also able to do the detailed footwork that gave him level 4 step sequence in both short and free.

Okay, I really, really, really hate that I have to say this, but... go back and look through some of Samarin's previous competition protocols.

You see any level 2s in there? No? None at all?

Seriously, Samarin getting level 3s and 4s across the board is not new - Samarin getting level 4s across the board is not even new. He consistently hits his levels - the fact that people are only noticing this now does not change the fact that he's been doing this his entire career, but it does do a pretty good job of demonstrating who actually only cares about jumps. Levels, just like GOE, are a matter of ticking boxes first and foremost, and like it or not, Samarin is undeniably good at ticking boxes. This isn't new, you just haven't been paying attention.

 

[lariko]

Okay, I really, really, really hate that I have to say this, but... go back and look through some of Samarin's previous competition protocols.

You see any level 2s in there? No? None at all?

Seriously, Samarin getting level 3s and 4s across the board is not new - Samarin getting level 4s across the board is not even new. He consistently hits his levels - the fact that people are only noticing this now does not change the fact that he's been doing this his entire career, but it does do a pretty good job of demonstrating who actually only cares about jumps. Levels, just like GOE, are a matter of ticking boxes first and foremost, and like it or not, Samarin is undeniably good at ticking boxes. This isn't new, you just haven't been paying attention.

It is fantastic that he has the arsenal to be competitive as emphasis shifts. Let’s see how it comes together at RusNats and how he stacks up vs Aliev. I am not going to apologize though for loving Samarin’s jumps they are exceptional and amazing.

 

[prorussian fan]

At this point I just wish RusFed was smart enough to get Kolyada to do a 4T, 3A and 3Lz-3T SP design in the Olympic team event and make sure to finish in the top five in the short program (nobody wants a disaster like in Korea), or even a triple-only design would secure 90 points as they are scoring Jason Brown. None of the Russian men is consistent and it is true that if you lose that team medal it will be because you do not have a good strategy with the men. Crossing my fingers .

 

[RatedPG]

The Russian Men really are all over the place. I’m really going to be nervous for this portion of the Team Event, as this could be where they lose the gold medal. Kolyada, should just focus on 4T and 3A and leave out the 4S. Maybe, he can do this element in the individual event. I think him, Semenenko and Ignatov are the top three Russian Men, so far this year. But, that could change in a months time. In my opinion, Kolyada is the lock and whomever finishes highest at Nationals, should be part of the team

 

[Raskolnikov]

At this point I just wish RusFed was smart enough to get Kolyada to do a 4T, 3A and 3Lz-3T SP design in the Olympic team event and make sure to finish in the top five in the short program (nobody wants a disaster like in Korea), or even a triple-only design would secure 90 points as they are scoring Jason Brown. None of the Russian men is consistent and it is true that if you lose that team medal it will be because you do not have a good strategy with the men. Crossing my fingers .

I hope for the all triple layout. Avoid bombing at all costs, a clean reliable skate should be the highest priority.

 

[kolyadafan2002]

At this point I just wish RusFed was smart enough to get Kolyada to do a 4T, 3A and 3Lz-3T SP design in the Olympic team event and make sure to finish in the top five in the short program (nobody wants a disaster like in Korea), or even a triple-only design would secure 90 points as they are scoring Jason Brown. None of the Russian men is consistent and it is true that if you lose that team medal it will be because you do not have a good strategy with the men. Crossing my fingers .

It's also stupid that team event is before actual Olympics.
I fear if somebody has mess in team event sp they might not mentally recover in time for individual competition.

In my opinion, they shouldn't have to do a separate team competition. Assign points to the individual competition results to decide team score. This way athletes can focus on the solo competition rather than divided focus.

 

[CrazyKittenLady]

I really don't envy the guy who gets to skate for Russia in the team event. He'll get none of the praise but all of the blame.

 

[kolyadafan2002]

I really don't envy the guy who gets to skate for Russia in the team event. He'll get none of the praise but all of the blame.

Tbh I don't think team event is as important as its made out to be in general.
But it is nice unity and bonding between skaters of nationality.

I worry that it will compromise the skaters for solo event.

 

[prorussian fan]

It's also stupid that team event is before actual Olympics.
I fear if somebody has mess in team event sp they might not mentally recover in time for individual competition.

In my opinion, they shouldn't have to do a separate team competition. Assign points to the individual competition results to decide team score. This way athletes can focus on the solo competition rather than divided focus.

In the case of Russian ladies I share your point, skating in the team event can be detrimental to individual competition where they are expected to sweep the podium. However, the man chosen for the team event should focus on this competition, as it is the only chance to win an Olympic medal.
To be realistic, I don't think Russian men skate under pressure in individual competition because RusFed doesn't expect anything from them, they don't fight for the podium which should make them skate more confident and relaxed.

 

[coldblueeyes]

In the case of Russian ladies I share your point, skating in the team event can be detrimental to individual competition where they are expected to sweep the podium. However, the man chosen for the team event should focus on this competition, as it is the only chance to win an Olympic medal.
To be realistic, I don't think Russian men skate under pressure in individual competition because RusFed doesn't expect anything from them, they don't fight for the podium which should make them skate more confident and relaxed.

Realistic or not, at no point does the Fed or the loud voices of the people around them expect anything but the highest result from the men. It's always been like this, yet they make no plans of how to achieve that. It's skaters for themselves, and everyone against them.

 

[lariko]

I really don't envy the guy who gets to skate for Russia in the team event. He'll get none of the praise but all of the blame.

We’ll do what we can to support them here

I was looking up the Olympic schedule, and men skate their short and free right after team event, so at least they have a chance for instant redemption if something doesn’t go to plan.

 

[vorravorra]

The media is full of "Valieva got a higher score in the FS that any of the Russian men have". They make is sound like no Russian man has ever skated a program with three "junior" quads and one 3A, rather than they have done harder content but got nowhere near that PCS and GOE. Frankly, with Kamila's PCS and GOE Chen wouldn't be safe, let alone Russian men. If that kind of insane point throwing at those barely out of juniors ever comes over to men's skating I am out. I also wish people would stop insisting men ask 15 year old girls for quad advice, it's getting old.

 

[vorravorra]

Okay, I really, really, really hate that I have to say this, but... go back and look through some of Samarin's previous competition protocols.

You see any level 2s in there? No? None at all?

Seriously, Samarin getting level 3s and 4s across the board is not new - Samarin getting level 4s across the board is not even new. He consistently hits his levels - the fact that people are only noticing this now does not change the fact that he's been doing this his entire career, but it does do a pretty good job of demonstrating who actually only cares about jumps. Levels, just like GOE, are a matter of ticking boxes first and foremost, and like it or not, Samarin is undeniably good at ticking boxes. This isn't new, you just haven't been paying attention.

Samarin has decent skating skills. People extent his choreographic deficiencies to every other PCS component.

 

[coldblueeyes]

The media is full of "Valieva got a higher score in the FS that any of the Russian men have". They make is sound like no Russian men has ever skated a program with three "junior" quads and one 3A, rather than they have done harder content but got nowhere near that PCS and GOE. Frankly, with Kamila's PCS and GOE Chen wouldn't be safe, let alone Russian men. If that kind of insane point throwing at those barely out of juniors ever comes over to men's skating I am out. I also wish people would stop insisting men ask 15 year old girls girls for quad advice, it's getting old.

The first sign of how the comparison is flawed is the fact that none of Eteri's men ever managed the content she does at her age. Even less being successful with the other elements--Moris skates similar-ish content, but his development in other areas is vastly inferior. Male and female bodies also develop in different stages, and these comparisons certainly do not take that into account.

What bothers me is that the Fed just doesn't care that these types of expectations on the men don't help them in the least. They certainly were a foil to Kolyada in the past cycle, and his confidence never recovered. And his story is not different from many others that crumbled under the pressure. In a sense, Kolyada is kind of holding out for longer than it was expected of him at this point.

 

[anonymoose_au]

But it is nice unity and bonding between skaters of nationality.

Well it's supposed to be, yes, but imagine being the Russian man who conceivably "robs" the team of gold? Your teammates might not hate you but you'll know you've disappointed them... And the Fed and public will make sure you know just how useless you are.

Realistic or not, at no point does the Fed or the loud voices of the people around them expect anything but the highest result from the men.

This. So much this! The Russian Figure Skating Federation is ruthless and merciless. They will rip a man to pieces if they don't met their expectations. When Plushy came second (second! After only one season back) at Vancouver they were so furious they refused permission they'd verbally given him to do shows (with no quads) and insisted he do Worlds (where no quads would be utter humiliation and doing them would probably result in serious injury) and when he refused, they let him be BANNED by the ISU as punishment like a dirty drug cheat.

Even after Plushy gave everything to the Team Event at Sochi and had to withdraw after breaking a SCREW in his back, they did and said NOTHING to stop the avalanche of hate and derision and accusations of faking that came from everywhere.

And now, they allowed him to be publicly humiliated last season by "leaking" a damning assessment of his coaching after 2020 Rostelecom (this has never happened, never) and once again doing nothing as floods of horrible articles flow from every sports news outlet in Russia. They don't defend him or give them their support, just look at Worlds, he was basically a leaper, sitting by himself with Sasha like an utter loser when Eteri and Anna got their entire team (despite the one skater, one coach rule). Even now they're still punishing him, and he was literally the best skater in the world for years.

Oh yeah and let's not forget the Fed didn't have to send him to either Olympics. They had other options, but they're just fine with pretending that somehow Plushy just barged in and "stole" Maxim Kovtun's Olympic dream, even setting Maxim aside they had Sergei Vonorov and Konstantin Menshov both in 2010 any 2014 as an option. They picked Plushy on their own. They're the worst sort of organisation one that wants all the glory but none of the difficulties.

The Russian men of today don't stand a chance.

The Russian Figure Skating Federation is the absolute worst.

 

[JustSomeGuy]

Samarin has decent skating skills. People extent his choreographic deficiencies to every other PCS component.

Hey, you don't need to tell me this; one of my first posts on the forum was literally about this. Honestly, people need to stop treating PCS like an 'artistic' score and start treating it as it is - a component score (and they need to stop confusing the 'transitions' component for a damn choreography component, but let's not encourage me to rant)

The Russian Figure Skating Federation is the absolute worst.

Ah, finally something we're all on the same page about.

 

[vorravorra]

Realistic or not, at no point does the Fed or the loud voices of the people around them expect anything but the highest result from the men. It's always been like this, yet they make no plans of how to achieve that. It's skaters for themselves, and everyone against them.

It's a bit schizophrenic. On the one hand, "Russian men are useless", on the other, "why haven't they won/medalled/beaten X, Y and Z???" after every competition.

I am also so tired of hearing year after year how Kolyada doesn't care about skating (but still continues doing it for some reason, even coming back after a season off), because if he cared about skating then... anything from more landed jumps to different facial expressions to being nicer to the media. I don't know why the other guys are not doing so much better since they presumably do care.

 

[coldblueeyes]

It's a bit schizophrenic. On the one hand, "Russian men are useless", on the other, "why haven't they won/medalled/beaten X, Y and Z???" after every competition.

I am also so tired of hearing year after year how Kolyada doesn't care about skating (but still continues doing it for some reason, even coming back after a season off), because if he cared about skating then... anything from more landed jumps to different facial expressions to being nicer to the media. I don't know why the other guys are not doing so much better since they presumably do care.

Not caring about skating is the only thing keeping him from greatness, after all.

 

[anonymoose_au]

Not caring about skating is the only thing keeping him from greatness, after all.

Yeah it's pretty hilarious to think Misha - or any other Russian man would literally devote their entire lives to such a risky and demanding sport if they hated it or didn't care.

Like maybe...maybe if they were getting a million dollars a year to do it, but even then...