Interview with Viktoria Butsaeva, Московский фигурист, No. 2, 2021 (summer 2021)
- Victoria Evgenievna, how did it happen that you train mainly boys? Is this an accident or did you deliberately go this way?
As for the boys - it just happened. I am not trying to give any explanation for this. I like working with boys, I see the result, and I want even better results, just like the athletes themselves.
- Is there a difference in working with boys and girls?
Unlikely. In any case, the figure skating teaching system is the same. Maybe there is a difference in the loads, but otherwise, everything is the same. Stasya Konstantinova has now come to our group, and she calmly joined, because the system is the same and the principles of the training process do not differ: you must first ideally skate one program, and then also skate another. All work comes down to just this.
- Coaches usually complain that boys care about themselves more, are more careless in learning technique, because they are physically stronger, that they are capricious and so on. Do you agree with that?
No, I disagree. In my group there are guys who have such a desire to work that they have to be stopped so that they do not overstrain, because their legs and backs are not made of iron. There are, of course, guys who have to be forced into something, but if you find an approach to them, then in the end they all work. I have a group born in 2012, with lots of girls - 13 girls and 2 boys. There is a middle group born in 2008-2009, in which there are five girls, and the rest are guys. This is the age when they are already applying for the Moscow team and the Russian team. That is, I work with both. Not that I do not see the difference, but if the athlete is motivated, then whether it is a boy or a girl - there is no difference. Here Kirill Kropylev was selected and went this year to the younger Russian championship, after which he was already interested in working. He now understands why he urgently needs a triple Axel, why he needs a quadruple by the next season, otherwise he will be uncompetitive, and he already wants to fight for high places. Probably, it is important to get to a start at the right age that will motivate the athlete for further work. It seems to me that it has always been this way: until a certain age, parents and a coach force, and then at some point - at the age of 16–17, not earlier, - there is a conscious motivation. I look at Ilya Yablokov, who has been skating with me for a little over four years: he had a period when his grandmother and parents forced him, then a moment came when no one could force him at all. Half of the season, if not the season, he dangled, then, thank God, the moment came when he realized what he wanted. So it all depends on age. But these guys who want to work and work since childhood, I have not really met.
- In your opinion, do all the guys realize what challenges are now facing men's single skating? Do they understand that without mastering 3-4 quads there is no point in continuing to skate?
Of course they do. Erokhov is now working on the free program and plans to insert a third quadruple, the jump is a rittberger, and will insert a quadruple into the second half of the program. All this suggests that there is no other way. Together with the younger generation, we train triple jumps as preparatory to quadruple jumps, otherwise they will not be competitive.
- What do you think, in which direction will go further development of men's single skating? Will it be technical skating or artistic skating?
I like the skating that Nathan Chen shows. His skating is undoubtedly power, because he rushes the whole program in one breath, performing the most difficult jumps, but there is so much charming negligence, so much liberation in him that it is definitely artistic skating. Or take our guys - Semenenko, Kondratyuk, Kovalev, Anisimov, Yablokov, they went out on the ice and also rushed. Maybe their skating is not as neat and lingering as we would like, maybe there is no emotion yet, but they show men's skating on the ice.
- If you do not take jumps into account, how strong have our men become, interesting and diverse in other elements?
Now, from an early age, they require complex positions in all spins, which are immediately worked out on the ice and in the hall at the choreography. It is required to do all the difficult turns on the ice: loops, twizzles, etc. When I was an athlete it was just the end of the era of school figures and there really was a decline in skating skills, so the introduction of testing (of young skaters’ skating skills) was sensible. Now the situation has more or less levelled off, but it's too early to calm down. It is good that at domestic competitions our technical team treats its athletes harder than when they go to international tournaments. It is generally difficult to get the 4th level with us, it is easier to get it at the stages of the Grand Prix than at home. And it is right. Specialists demand severely from our guys, which can only be welcomed. Especially if these athletes are promising and apply for participation in international competitions. Technical specialists periodically visit us to watch trainings, who rather severely criticize the guys for performing the elements.
- Have you ever regretted that as an athlete you skated in the era of only triple jumps?
I can say that I had wonderful teachers, both in St. Petersburg and in Moscow. When I skated with Mishin - it was one and a half seasons, I managed to catch the time when he worked with Urmanov, Yagudin and Plushenko. Then I moved to Moscow to the Kudryavtsevs, and over the seven years of work that I had, they gave me tremendous knowledge and experience not only as an athlete, but also as a future coach. All my coaches who worked with me did everything so that I, as a coach, could succeed, so that I became the coach I am, and so that I knew where to develop further. Regarding regret, I never even thought about it. Everything has its time. In our time, the 3–3 combo was something outrageous in terms of complexity, but I can say that thanks to the mentors, I can teach my guys quadruple jumps and triple Axel.
- Do you practice sparring techniques in training?
You know, you don't even need to apply such a technique, because they themselves are like roosters. They charge from each other, compete in a natural way. If one succeeds, the others will not calm down. They will not sleep, but they will catch up. Andrei Anisimov, for example, when he came to the group, the guys did not react to him in the training process, but when in the second season he learned the quadruple salchow and toeloop, and then showed them at competition, the guys tensed, felt the competition from him.
- Did Anisimov already have quadruple jumps before?
He came to me two years ago in August, and during such a period when we had passed the training camp and had staged all the programs. He was expelled from the previous group as unpromising, they said that he would not jump quadruples. Andrei is a rather tall guy, he is already 185 cm, so he was recommended to go to pair skating. His mother called me and asked to give her son a chance. I repeat that I am interested in working with guys of any age and any level. At that moment, he had only triple jumps in his arsenal. He surrendered himself entirely to our hands. Already in February/March, Andrei jumped a quadruple salchow and showed his first quadruple at the Moscow Cup in Medvedkovo. And so he began. Then in this pandemic, he grew a lot, we had to restore the salchow for a long time, but in November 2020 he returned this jump and added three and a half Axel. At the Russian Championship, he already did two quads. And this is not the limit: he knows where to develop, where to move. Anisimov is a very interesting athlete, and a good guy himself. He grew up and became very mature by the end of the season.
- What qualities would you especially like to develop in him?
His style is classic long lines, but I don't want to overuse it. True, with such leverage and height as Andrei's, fine motor skills are not for him. But for a start we will learn something danceable in jazz classes, perhaps someday it will come in handy. For example, some dance rhythms can be tried in exhibition numbers. So, in any case, we will try to change the music, we will look for some new stylistic solutions even for classical pieces, we will pay attention to the work of the body.
- Alexey Erokhov has also recently joined you from another group. Why did he choose you as his coach?
No idea. Maybe because I give all the guys a second chance. I enjoy working with them, extending their sports careers. Plus, they are all friends with each other, share their impressions about the training process, about life and about their interests. I am very glad that they have a comfortable and healthy atmosphere within the group. Moreover, they all compete with each other, but this is a productive competition.
- What was the second chance for Erokhov?
Alexey had to overcome the consequences of a leg injury that knocked him out of competition, and for a long time. A stress fracture. In the 2018/19 season, he qualified for the junior world championship in Perm, but could not go, because problems began with his leg. This injury did not allow him to train in full, some half measures did not help, the doctors decided to operate, after which his coaches allowed his leg to heal and recover. As a result, rehabilitation took time, and he missed the season. Alexey came to my group in July 2020, we started the season with him, planned for three starts - two stages of the Cup of Russia and the Championship of Russia, but the issue with the leg became aggravated again. The doctors said that if he wants to save his career, now he has to stop. He did not skate for a month and a half, went on the ice three weeks before the Russian Cup final, at which he performed poorly. I understood that there could be failed starts, but this one turned out to be special. In a word, it was not easy.
- In what form is Alexey entering the new season? What mood?
Lyosha is essentially a ploughman. This is just the case when an athlete must be stopped, otherwise he will break from effort. Sometimes, as a coach, I feel like one more try and he could get hurt. In terms of work, he pulls the whole group with him.
- Do you need to pull the group?
Sometimes it is necessary. Athletes are people like everyone else: they have recessions. For example, the past season was difficult enough for Ilya Yablokov. For him, the last season has become a transitional one. If the other guys recovered from quarantine very quickly, then Ilya recovered hard and for a long time, because he himself had had coronavirus. And all this coincided with the growth and changes in the body, he began to turn from a boy into an adult guy, which is probably why he lacked strength. Every time he started to train, Ilya got sick. Before the championship of Russia, he had been ill, he could not go to the final of the Cup of Russia, because for 10 days he fell ill with a cold, and he could not recover in two or three days. If earlier, after an illness or some kind of break, he could return to his working condition in two or three days and go to the competition, now – no way.
- How did he experience all this? Is he still motivated to work?
To be honest, it was hard, and above all for him. It was the same situation when the season did not go like planned, not as we would have liked. Although in technical terms he made significant progress: he jumped quad ritterberger, and salchow, and a toeloop, but at the starts he did not manage to show everything that he could. I clearly know that he did not finish the season physically, and not only for objective reasons. During the three years that I have worked with him, he has always been trouble-free. He said, two skates of a free program, and if something doesn't work out, then by the third skate, it will. He went and worked.
But this season it was no longer like that. He began to feel sorry for himself. It was even unexpected for me, because Ilya has a masculine character. At the start, he shows everything he can, and even a little more. Loves to compete, loves starting on adrenaline, courage. This is very captivating, because every coach knows how important it is to be able to compete. Now, I hope, over the summer period he will get a little stronger, he will have the strength to plough in the season. Hopefully everything will turn out and he will prove himself.
- Who puts the programs on for the guys?
From year to year, Nikita Mikhailov puts our programs on. This season he directed both programs for Anisimov and Yablokov. Now Zhenya Vlasov began to try himself in the choreography business, and it is already clear that he, too, can develop in this direction in an interesting way. He delivered the programs to Erokhov and Murashov, and Lyosha Erokhov wanted to stage a new free program with Vlasov, and if Alexey keeps all his ideas in the program, it will be very interesting.
- Is there a recipe that allows you to make each program interesting?
Sasha Zhulin and I once discussed this topic, and he expressed the idea that you can put on an excellent program, but you still have to skate so that the viewer cannot take their eyes off it - for this, the skater must have charisma, inside. If you have it, you can skate any program. Such an athlete may be somewhat careless, even somewhere clumsy, but everyone will be delighted. Right now, Yablokov was given a dance short program, because we wanted to radically change his image. We immediately agreed with Nikita Mikhailov about the chosen music for Ilya, because we understood that it would show him from another side. Ilya is really different in this program. Maybe in some movements he is a little untidy and understated, but he dances. If he can skate this program with all the complex elements in the same way as he is now skating in practise, it will be just a bomb. I would like it to preserve the rhythm and tempo, and all the details of the program. I can say the same about Lyosha Erokhov, whom everyone is used to seeing without emotion, with such a stony expression on his face, although in fact he has a very interesting smile: charming and a little mischievous at the same time. Now in the new free program Alyosha is discovering himself anew. It remains to show the program to the audience in all its glory, because in the new program he has very interesting storytelling. I hope he can handle it all.
- At the beginning of your career as a coach, after some time you suddenly disappeared from sight. Why?
When I started my career as a coach, my group included such athletes as Sonya Biryukova, Polina Korobeinikova, Anna Shershak, on whom I was so focused that I did not recruit junior groups. Because, firstly, I then worked alone without a second coach, there was only a choreographer, and secondly, during that period I went to competitions a lot. Biryukova skated among the seniors, and Korobeinikova and Shershak skated juniors, and every week I went somewhere with them to a competition. I had two suitcases: one was packed with things for a country in which it is warm, in the other were things for a country in which it is cold. I travelled in this way from mid-August to mid-December, that is, from the first stages of the Junior Grand Prix series to the Grand Prix finals. I was practically not in Moscow. Then Sonya went to pair skating, Polina retired after the European Championship, Anya too, and it so happened that I did not have a new generation of skaters to replace them.
- And now you are recruiting the younger group?
Yes, I learned from my mistakes. I recruited athletes from 2012 and took Sonya Biryukova as my assistant, and now we are recruiting children from 2014–2015, with whom Sasha Kondakov will help, Murad Kurbanov helps me with the older guys, because it’s hard to handle such a large group alone. The older group - two workouts a day, the middle group - two workouts a day: I spend whole days on the ice. There are, of course, training sessions, where programs are skated, where I can sit on the boards with a video camera, with a notebook, but as for the middle and junior groups, there is only skating. Almost all of my assistants are my own athletes, I trust them, I know that they can work and I see what they want. In a word, we are now all divided into groups in such a way as to work without omissions. We also made good contact with the coach Julia Shmiller, who has been working with groups of initial training from the first years of study. Our team includes choreographers Galina Ischenko, Christina Stepanova, as well as Evgeny Vlasov. Lyudmila Alekseeva and Irina Strakhova are also with us, and God grant them good health so that they work as long as possible. We have a large and healthy team, which, I am sure, is able to keep our school at a good level and create competition in Moscow.
So, women score better than men. It’s a sport with a Byzantine and highly subjective scoring system that favours the outstanding skaters that impress, be it Chen, Valieva, Trusova, Hanyu… and Russian men in pairs are the single most high scoring group of men in skating per nation. There are Russian men in top 10… and if Ignatov was scored just a little bit more generously Russians would have had 3 men with medals in GP. There is no Russian in top 3 of the world in singles… but there is no American woman or a pair in top 3. Japanese don’t have ID or pair in top 3. 
I am wondering how many of those could actually come true…
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