2023-24 US Men’s Figure Skating | Page 2 | Golden Skate

2023-24 US Men’s Figure Skating

labgoat

Wishing on a star
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 3, 2007
Country
United-States
Try here
 

YuBluByMe

May Rika spin her hair into GOLD….in 2026.
Final Flight
Joined
Mar 21, 2018
Andrew has been named to Golden Spin. I was patiently waiting for the entry list and was going to sound off big time if he wasn’t named and someone who’s already fairly high in the world’s standings got to go instead.

Uh, oh yeah, Hiwatashi is going too.
 

Tav

Rinkside
Joined
Oct 15, 2023
Andrew has been named to Golden Spin. I was patiently waiting for the entry list and was going to sound off big time if he wasn’t named and someone who’s already fairly high in the world’s standings got to go instead.

Uh, oh yeah, Hiwatashi is going too.

Could it have helped USFS to pick Andrew because he is the number three man in the U.S. according to the Season's Best ranking? Since Ilia is going to the GPF and Jason only wants to do one CS competition, Andrew was the top pick in that regard. Hiwatashi needs another international comp because he only had a CS and didn't get a GP assignment.
 

SmileHappy34

Final Flight
Joined
Dec 20, 2022
My impression is I think Camden lost his chance of being the # 2 man at nat'ls. He can but I think that despite Jason not doing Gp events.
He is considered number 2.
I not saying Jason will finish 2nd. It that I'd team oops up. Jason name will come up more than Camden or Andrew.
For me, they haven't skated to the no 2 man's position.

They are not consistent. Is it the quads? I don't know .
 

YuBluByMe

May Rika spin her hair into GOLD….in 2026.
Final Flight
Joined
Mar 21, 2018
My impression is I think Camden lost his chance of being the # 2 man at nat'ls. He can but I think that despite Jason not doing Gp events.
He is considered number 2.
I not saying Jason will finish 2nd. It that I'd team oops up. Jason name will come up more than Camden or Andrew. For me, they haven't skated to the no 2 man's position.
As far as I’m concerned, the US don’t have a number two. It’s Ilia and everyone else. Brown is a part-timer and that’s definitely not something that will stick long-term. Either you’re in or you’re out. Yet no one is stepping up to replace the void that was left after the Olympics.

I don’t think Pulkinen is considered number two. He’s considered the best of the rest which is another thing entirely. If he’s on the Nationals podium, he’ll be going to Worlds. If he falls outside the top five, he won’t be.

As for Andrew….he withdrew from Golden Spin and he really needed that competition. (I’m sure he’s injured… again). If he did well there, he could’ve broke out in a big way. But I think he’s doing well for now. I wasn’t expecting 260 scores from him. This is his first full year back so I think his scores are fine and already better than what others have been putting out and they had more time. He’s currently neck-and-neck with Pulkinen for that third (or should I say one of?) Worlds spot. It’s literally going to come down to Nationals at this point. Onward and upwards!
 

skatingfan4ever

"Our blade takes us in the most amazing places."
Medalist
Joined
Nov 3, 2012
Country
United-States
Because of Andrew's past injuries, I don't think he's done enough Senior Internationals lately to be labeled as either consistent or inconsistent.

Worlds, Andrew had totally not planned for, it was a whirlwind getting there, and he was very nervous. Skate America, he had a rough short program but then a clean, albeit quadless, free skate. Lombardia, he had a clean short program with a 4S and a free skate with only 2 mistakes. I am encouraged by his improved jumping, especially in the free skate.

Camden and Jimmy have had many more opportunities to compete and often have had disappointing skates. They've had their standout moments, of course, but overall, they seem to struggle. Andrew seems to have more reliable jump technique now than he did in the past, thanks to Raf.

Another little factoid is that Andrew missed two entire jumps in the SA short program, including not doing a combo, and yet his SA total score was only 10 points lower than Camden's at NHK (where Camden had a solid short program and a rocky free skate). There's the usual caveat about not comparing scores from different competitions, but still.

I think we are where we've been for the last several seasons with the US Men, which is that other than the #1, for the other spots, several skaters are in contention and there's not really a pecking order. In fact, I may even argue that Andrew could be more solid than the others, provided he stays healthy and keeps a good mindset in competition. Staying healthy is never a given with him though. (I just hope that his withdrawal from Golden Spin doesn't mean he's nursing another big injury that would prevent him from trying for Nationals/4CC/Worlds).

I keep expecting Camden to improve his consistency, but he often struggles on jumps, despite his beautiful skating.
 
Last edited:

Tav

Rinkside
Joined
Oct 15, 2023
I simply go by international season's best scores as far as who is ranked what. Currently, Ilia has the highest SB, Jason has the second highest, and Andrew has the third highest. Sure, it's too simplistic to gage every skater's over all competency for the season, but I feel like it works well enough. This is why I consider Andrew the number three man in the U.S. Also, Camden did not outscore Andrew's SB at NHK this weekend, so Andrew remains number three.

It's discouraging that Andrew seems to be injured, again, but because he's willing to be an alternate for Golden Spin, it must mean the injury is not serious and that we can expect him to be all better by Nationals and 4CC. I think he's in a very good position to make the 4CC team this season and I would expect, as long as he can claim another bronze at Nats, he'll make the Worlds team, again, too. There's a lot of opportunities for him to impress everyone in the second half of the season and his resting up right now will ensure he can perform really well.

He's doing just fine for now, all things considered. It takes time to sow a field, nourish it, then reap what you've sown. I'd consider all the other men under Ilia and Jason to be the more disappointing ones because they've had plenty of time and opportunity and just haven't delivered. Andrew is only back as of the calendar year 2023, and back from two years of oblivion. Keep in mind, he's a new senior as of this return, too. Senior level men's is vastly harder than the junior level and he's navigating that for the first time right now. We all need to be patient and give him a chance.
 

el henry

Go have some cake. And come back with jollity.
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 3, 2014
Country
United-States
I am just trying so hard not to be upset if Andrew is in fact injured.😖 Can't he catch a break?

It doesn't matter if Jason Brown skates one comp a year, if that comp is US Nats and he comes in second, he is the US number two man. Now, since he has deliberately chosen to scale back his skating competitions, that may mean more opportunities for number three and number four. And Jason may come in fifth this year at Nats, who knows? (As a fan, I certainly hope not ;) )

Even if I were not a dedicated Jason fan, I am praying this year works out for him as well as last year did to give hope perhaps to other "older" skaters that they can stay in skating. I certainly would love to see Andrew still skating seven years from now :)
 

Tav

Rinkside
Joined
Oct 15, 2023
I am just trying so hard not to be upset if Andrew is in fact injured.😖 Can't he catch a break?

It doesn't matter if Jason Brown skates one comp a year, if that comp is US Nats and he comes in second, he is the US number two man. Now, since he has deliberately chosen to scale back his skating competitions, that may mean more opportunities for number three and number four. And Jason may come in fifth this year at Nats, who knows? (As a fan, I certainly hope not ;) )

Even if I were not a dedicated Jason fan, I am praying this year works out for him as well as last year did to give hope perhaps to other "older" skaters that they can stay in skating. I certainly would love to see Andrew still skating seven years from now :)

I feel Jason will be in better overall condition for Nationals compared to Warsaw Cup. He should be able to repeat his silver medal win from last season. I say this as a bigger fan of Andrew than Jason and as a fan who would love for Andrew to move up to number two in the U.S., but I don't believe it will be happening this season. That is completely fine with me, since he is a young man who has a few years before he even reaches his physical peak. He has time to eventually become number two, especially when Jason is fully retired.

I'm happy for Jason to stick around as long as he feels he wants to. He's already an inspiration to older male skaters, as well as those without quads, or without stable quads, or without many quads. And I would love to one day see a 29-year-old Andrew Torgashev still competing! I sure hope he can physically last that long, considering how prone he is to injury. It would be an accomplishment for him.
 

momrk

Medalist
Joined
Feb 28, 2012
Country
United-States
I agree, Jason is showing a way to stay in the sport longer if someone so choses- and I agree, I think doing Warsaw Cup was smart on his part. Helped get the competition rust and nerves settled, and allows him to focus on what he needs to do to prepare for Nationals.
 

Jammers

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 4, 2010
Country
United-States
Because of Andrew's past injuries, I don't think he's done enough Senior Internationals lately to be labeled as either consistent or inconsistent.

Worlds, Andrew had totally not planned for, it was a whirlwind getting there, and he was very nervous. Skate America, he had a rough short program but then a clean, albeit quadless, free skate. Lombardia, he had a clean short program with a 4S and a free skate with only 2 mistakes. I am encouraged by his improved jumping, especially in the free skate.

Camden and Jimmy have had many more opportunities to compete and often have had disappointing skates. They've had their standout moments, of course, but overall, they seem to struggle. Andrew seems to have more reliable jump technique now than he did in the past, thanks to Raf.

Another little factoid is that Andrew missed two entire jumps in the SA short program, including not doing a combo, and yet his SA total score was only 10 points lower than Camden's at NHK (where Camden had a solid short program and a rocky free skate). There's the usual caveat about not comparing scores from different competitions, but still.

I think we are where we've been for the last several seasons with the US Men, which is that other than the #1, for the other spots, several skaters are in contention and there's not really a pecking order. In fact, I may even argue that Andrew could be more solid than the others, provided he stays healthy and keeps a good mindset in competition. Staying healthy is never a given with him though. (I just hope that his withdrawal from Golden Spin doesn't mean he's nursing another big injury that would prevent him from trying for Nationals/4CC/Worlds).

I keep expecting Camden to improve his consistency, but he often struggles on jumps, despite his beautiful skating.
Difference is in the past few years after Nathan you had skaters like Jason and Vincent who were more then competitive with the rest of the world and won medals and for the most part could be counted on to finish high at Worlds. The Olympic cycle leading up to the 2018 Olympics had even more depth with Nathan taking over and of course Jason, Adam, Grant, Max and Vincent rising in 2018. Now it's Ilia carrying the US Men and that's it.
 
Last edited:

YuBluByMe

May Rika spin her hair into GOLD….in 2026.
Final Flight
Joined
Mar 21, 2018
We’re halfway through the season and Nationals is next month. I’ve been doing…ah….”math” along the way to see which skaters can be considered for the World’s team. I’ll be going to Worlds this year so I’m more invested than usual.

If my “math” is correct - and it may not be - the pool of skaters looks like this (some skaters will be listed more than once): Malinin, Malinin, Pulkinen, Kapeikis, Torgashev, Naumov, Malinin, Brown, Torgashev, Hiwatashi, Broussard, Ma, Malinin, Brown, Torgashev, Pulkinen, Malinin, Malinin, Pulkinen, Brown, Ma, Kapeikis.

So…Malinin, Pulkinen, Kapeikis, Torgashev, Naumov, Brown, Hiwatashi, Broussard, and Ma.

There’s a clause in the criteria that explains that performance data and competition results will be used to select the best Worlds team. In other words, Ilia doesn’t need to show up to Nationals. He’s going to Worlds. On the other hand, if anyone outside the pool falls on the Nationals podium, they won’t be.

In my opinion, the two other Worlds spots will go to someone whose name appears at least three times on that first list: Pulkinen, Torgashev, and Brown.

(Providing they fall within the top 5 at Nationals, of course.)
 

skatingfan4ever

"Our blade takes us in the most amazing places."
Medalist
Joined
Nov 3, 2012
Country
United-States
Any idea when USFS might announce the 4CC team? I was hoping to know sooner than after Nationals. 🤔 They usually announce the 4CC and World teams together, but also they usually choose them at the same time. I just really want to know who's going to 4CC for sure. Even though we can guess by looking at the criteria, I want it confirmed on paper. The wait might be annoying. :laugh:
 

Jammers

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 4, 2010
Country
United-States
Any idea when USFS might announce the 4CC team? I was hoping to know sooner than after Nationals. 🤔 They usually announce the 4CC and World teams together, but also they usually choose them at the same time. I just really want to know who's going to 4CC for sure. Even though we can guess by looking at the criteria, I want it confirmed on paper. The wait might be annoying. :laugh:
Why is 4CC so early next year anyways? Usually 4CC starts around the 2nd week of February unless it's an Olympic year when it's in late January but 4CC is slated to start on January 30th. There is only a couple of days from the end of US Nationals and the start of 4CC so how is the US going to be able to send a team?
 

Gia_Sesshoumaru

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 13, 2012
Country
United-States
Any idea when USFS might announce the 4CC team? I was hoping to know sooner than after Nationals. 🤔 They usually announce the 4CC and World teams together, but also they usually choose them at the same time. I just really want to know who's going to 4CC for sure. Even though we can guess by looking at the criteria, I want it confirmed on paper. The wait might be annoying. :laugh:

The meetings were on December 11th and 12th, so it should be soon.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Tav

TontoK

Hot Tonto
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 28, 2013
Country
United-States
Have I missed something important?

To my recollection, the World's and 4CC teams are announced after US Nats. Why are people expecting an announcement before then?

Did they change the criteria this year because of timing?
 

BlissfulSynergy

Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 1, 2020
Country
Olympics
^^ Apparently, something has changed since 4CCs team is expected to be announced prior to U.S. Nationals. I'm confounded why 4CCs is being scheduled even closer to U.S. Nats, and it's not even an Olympic year. What's going on? 🤔
 

TontoK

Hot Tonto
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 28, 2013
Country
United-States
We’re halfway through the season and Nationals is next month. I’ve been doing…ah….”math” along the way to see which skaters can be considered for the World’s team. I’ll be going to Worlds this year so I’m more invested than usual.

If my “math” is correct - and it may not be - the pool of skaters looks like this (some skaters will be listed more than once): Malinin, Malinin, Pulkinen, Kapeikis, Torgashev, Naumov, Malinin, Brown, Torgashev, Hiwatashi, Broussard, Ma, Malinin, Brown, Torgashev, Pulkinen, Malinin, Malinin, Pulkinen, Brown, Ma, Kapeikis.

So…Malinin, Pulkinen, Kapeikis, Torgashev, Naumov, Brown, Hiwatashi, Broussard, and Ma.

There’s a clause in the criteria that explains that performance data and competition results will be used to select the best Worlds team. In other words, Ilia doesn’t need to show up to Nationals. He’s going to Worlds. On the other hand, if anyone outside the pool falls on the Nationals podium, they won’t be.

In my opinion, the two other Worlds spots will go to someone whose name appears at least three times on that first list: Pulkinen, Torgashev, and Brown.

(Providing they fall within the top 5 at Nationals, of course.)

I'm getting my annual complaint in early this year, as a holiday gift to you all. Time moves on, but my opinion on this has wavered not one inch in 50 years of fandom.

The World's Team should consist of the top three medalists at US Nationals. Until then, no skater should feel "preselected" and that includes Ilia.

The 4CC spots should be offered to the same three. If one or more of them decline, then it's #4, #5, etc in order. All this assumes that everyone in contention has the minimums, is age-eligible, etc.

I acknowledge that people have different opinions, and I respect your right to be completely wrong about this.
 
Top