Yeah this was relitigated on here quite a lot. I was on the side that agreed with the decision. Jason came in top six at that Olys and Ilya top 7 at that Worlds. Ilya was not the most consistent skater at the time and in the end it hasn't hurt his career. It might have made him more determined. Has he ever complained about that decision? Ilya had such great potential but Jason had the creds IMHO. And to your point about Jason being given 4CC this time, I say no.
2026 U.S. Nationals Senior Men Free Skate
- Thread starter dorispulaski
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- Nov 30, 2016
Ilia will do the SP. The question is who will do the FS. The SP is more important, because you can finish as low as 10th, rather than just 5th. It's also less taxing and there's a little more time between it and the start of the men's individual event.Well after a good night's sleep (a long nap really) I say send the Ilya guy to the Olympics and hope for the best. I think despite his poor showings at two consecutive Worlds (hey he did make the FS last time), send Andrew. That third spot? I think Tomoki. Yes Max was two points ahead of him at Nats but TH has just had a better season. It's all about the team event and I think Andrew or Tomoki just have a better shot at doing the SP and doing better than Max who has no track record of international success. Whoever gets sent to Olys out of those three, one should be sent to Worlds instead. It's the fair thing to do. And he should also go to 4CC along with Jacob and Liam. Jr Worlds? Patrick and Lucius or Caleb.
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- Dec 5, 2015
Agree. Jason had a good nationals in 2022 and would have been 3rd had the technical panel actually called any of the 5/6 URs of the skater who ended up in third (Vincent- who I like by the way and who I think deserved to go the Olympics based on BOW-but was extremely overscored at nationals). Jason's selection at that time made sense and his performance justified the choice. His performance at last years Worlds also justified the federations's choice to send him. Ilya was 9th at a depleted Worlds in 2022 because he was inconsistent and not yet a complete skater. The results absolutely made the decision a win for USFS.
This year, I would be absolutely shocked if Jason is chosen. As I said after the SP, he would have to prove he could land clean jumps to be chosen. He didn't. Jason is amazing and he's an artist. He's always had beautiful jumps but landing 3As at 31 in a cardiovascularly challenging sprint of a FS seems beyond him right now. I don't think he would even want to go to 4CC.
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Wasn't Ilia 9th that year at Worlds? In a field without the big names like Nathan, Vincent, Yuzuru (who were at the Olympics). I remember Jason came in 6th at that Olympics and he was one rotation away from 4th plance and coming above Yuzuru. Jason was also way superior internationally than Ilia that season.
I'm sure the federation wouldn't mind Jason going to Worlds this year either. He may have bombed nationals but in the first part of the season he still was above Torgashev, Naumov and Hiwatashi even with chaotic jumping. But I don't think he'll do them that favor, he'll prob rest and plan his shows career going forward.
I can't say I envy the selection panel. Whoever they choose will leave some people unhappy.
I also feel a bit sorry for Andrew and Tomoki. US fans always seem to have a need to hate one of the men selected for the Olympics. Most people seem to still hate Adam Rippon for being chosen over Jason in 2018 and people hated Vincent Zhou last time. If either Andrew or Tomoki get selected over Jason or Maxim, there will be a lot of people who hate them for it.
Whilst I would love Maxim to go to the Olympics, I think Andrew and Tomoki have both been better across the season as a whole. Maxim is the popular choice because of last year's tragic event, not because he is a better skater. People like fairy tales which come true.
I know that I'm in the minority, but I think USFS were right not to send Ilia last time. He wasn't ready in terms of experience and maturity and everyone would have expected a medal and laid into him if he didn't get one. He struggled at Worlds that year in a field which was missing many of the top skaters, with both Vincent Zhou and Camden Pulkinen placing above him.
I also feel a bit sorry for Andrew and Tomoki. US fans always seem to have a need to hate one of the men selected for the Olympics. Most people seem to still hate Adam Rippon for being chosen over Jason in 2018 and people hated Vincent Zhou last time. If either Andrew or Tomoki get selected over Jason or Maxim, there will be a lot of people who hate them for it.
Whilst I would love Maxim to go to the Olympics, I think Andrew and Tomoki have both been better across the season as a whole. Maxim is the popular choice because of last year's tragic event, not because he is a better skater. People like fairy tales which come true.
I know that I'm in the minority, but I think USFS were right not to send Ilia last time. He wasn't ready in terms of experience and maturity and everyone would have expected a medal and laid into him if he didn't get one. He struggled at Worlds that year in a field which was missing many of the top skaters, with both Vincent Zhou and Camden Pulkinen placing above him.
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- Dec 5, 2015
I actually agree that Andrew and Tomoki are better choices than Max based purely on their potential and their skates here. However, leaving Max off the team would be a nightmare for USFS. He has such a touching backstory. Can you imagine the uproar?
I think Ilya, Andrew and Max will be on the team. However, what do I know? I won't be upset by any decision.
By the way, if you look at the past few posts you will see that you are definitely not alone in agreeing with the USFS in 2022.
I think none of the skaters (except Ilia of course) is very consistent, that's why sticking to the results of the competition would probably be a wise choice. There would surely be an uproar if they leave Max out, and I would join it first line. Consistency is his problem, but SS and Artistry wise I do think he is better than most of the other contenders.
It would be like a family curse repeating itself, considering how many times also his parents suffered undemarking and controversial split decisions in their days, like historical skating enthusiasts will recall.
It would be like a family curse repeating itself, considering how many times also his parents suffered undemarking and controversial split decisions in their days, like historical skating enthusiasts will recall.
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- Jan 28, 2013
Potential placements at the Olympics are really sort of a non-issue, aren't they, if we're not talking about medal contenders?
There's no federation impact whatsoever if we're talking something like "Tomoki has the potential to place 8th, but Max's ceiling is 10th." And, to be clear, I'm completely making those numbers up for illustration.
It's a different story at the World's, where placements determine team numbers for next year.
It's one of the reasons I was aggrieved about the Olympic selection the past cycle. Yes, Jason placed 6th, and good for him. I really mean it, he performed very well. But did it really have an impact on anything? Had Ilia gone, could he have placed 6th? I doubt it, but he'd have gotten hugely valuable experience, and that could have been more impactful in the long run that Jason's placement. He'd be going into his second Olympics, not his first. And if you think that's irrelevant, talk to Nathan Chen.
Instead, you had a young man who felt slighted by the system, and his response was, "I'm going to perfect my style of skating, and I'm going to shove it straight down your throats, and I don't care if you like it or not." I happen to like it, but there are plenty who don't.
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- Oct 31, 2006
Good thing he did too; otherwise, the US would only be sending 1 or 2 men to the Olympics this year.
Torgashev is a jumper -and sometimes a good one. His artistry is mediocre.
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- Feb 19, 2010
No way. His programs, particularly last year, are some of my favorite. His skating skills are excellent as well. I would have said that Andrew's strength is exactly the fact that he is an artist- I honestly think that had he been clean last year, his programs at their best could definitely have been challenging for a top six place.
Yes he was ninth. I'm mathematically challenged.
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Jason got the chance to get that 3rd spot because he got a spot for worlds although he skipped Nationals. We do not know if Camden who finished 3rd at Nationals and didn't get to go to worlds would have gotten that 3rd spot for USA, too.
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- Sep 1, 2020
This was such an interesting and historic event, completely mishandled by the NBC/ USA coverage that Peacock viewers who pay for full streaming coverage were forced to watch. If you watch on regular cable tv, that's fine. On the Peacock service, we should have been provided with the full World feed streaming coverage, with the USA broadcast posted as an option, not as something we were handcuffed to watching. With all those ads, it took longer to watch and it was extremely disjointed.
One good thing during the sp men's coverage is that Johnny pointed out how Tomoki had URed his quad. But Johnny did not go further than that. I had to check the protocols to find out that the judges called Tomoki's quad a q, when it looked to be a UR. In any case, I thought Tomoki was overscored in the sp and that Max Naumov was a bit underscored. Jason was also overscored in the sp with his mistakes, sadly. It seems to me that the judges wanted to be careful not to appear like they were gifting Max anything. That's fine, but they bent over backward rewarding Tomoki and Jason in the sp.
Course correction happened in the fp, as very sadly, Jason underperformed. His errors were so uncharacteristic. I feel bad for Jason and I hope he is sent to the Olympics as a U.S. team ambassador. Possibly, Jason was a bit overwhelmed by wanting this berth so much, and there being some chatter either before and certainly after the sp that he should not be favored ahead of younger guys. He has slowly been losing mastery of his triple axel for a while. Perhaps the pressure of performing like he's used to, coupled with the knowledge he wasn't as strong anymore, made getting through this important competition extremely hard. I did not expect it to happen this way for Jason, and that saddens me. A lot of people felt Jason was a lock for the Olympic team, but he honestly had not been as strong this season. The stakes were so high at Nationals, and he just could not summon all that he used to master. It's hard knowing you don't have the same support either. I had thought and hoped the team would be Ilia, Jason and Max. But as it turns out, Andrew Torgashev was on a mission in the fp. I'm happy with this podium altogether. It feels right.
One good thing during the sp men's coverage is that Johnny pointed out how Tomoki had URed his quad. But Johnny did not go further than that. I had to check the protocols to find out that the judges called Tomoki's quad a q, when it looked to be a UR. In any case, I thought Tomoki was overscored in the sp and that Max Naumov was a bit underscored. Jason was also overscored in the sp with his mistakes, sadly. It seems to me that the judges wanted to be careful not to appear like they were gifting Max anything. That's fine, but they bent over backward rewarding Tomoki and Jason in the sp.
Course correction happened in the fp, as very sadly, Jason underperformed. His errors were so uncharacteristic. I feel bad for Jason and I hope he is sent to the Olympics as a U.S. team ambassador. Possibly, Jason was a bit overwhelmed by wanting this berth so much, and there being some chatter either before and certainly after the sp that he should not be favored ahead of younger guys. He has slowly been losing mastery of his triple axel for a while. Perhaps the pressure of performing like he's used to, coupled with the knowledge he wasn't as strong anymore, made getting through this important competition extremely hard. I did not expect it to happen this way for Jason, and that saddens me. A lot of people felt Jason was a lock for the Olympic team, but he honestly had not been as strong this season. The stakes were so high at Nationals, and he just could not summon all that he used to master. It's hard knowing you don't have the same support either. I had thought and hoped the team would be Ilia, Jason and Max. But as it turns out, Andrew Torgashev was on a mission in the fp. I'm happy with this podium altogether. It feels right.
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- Sep 1, 2020
Jacob Sanchez winning the pewter medal is exactly right. In fact, the real drama that NBC failed to cover is how close Sanchez's total score came to Max's total score! 
249.16 vs 249.07
I did not learn this until I checked the online results in detail. NBC chacked the majority of the kiss'n cry footage as it was, so during most of the broadcast, viewers were flying blind regarding scores and current standings. 
The difference between Max being in third or fourth was not just about him and Tomoki and Jason, it was about Jacob Sanchez pulling up from 7th to 3rd in the fp as a non-quadster, typically placed behind quadsters in the sp. But Martynov and Tomoki faltered in their fps, and Sanchez delivered a masterful fp that couldn't be ignored. 'Quads are something, but not everything,' as Ilia might say in a voiceover.
Ilia was smart to conserve his energies at U.S. Nationals. He needs to be sharp for the Olympics, as he indicated. Nonetheless, Ilia's fp score was way over-the-top, but so was Chock & Bates' score, and to a lesser degree, Amber's score. U.S. fed is giving their top 'stars' the big send-off.
249.16 vs 249.07 I did not learn this until I checked the online results in detail. NBC chacked the majority of the kiss'n cry footage as it was, so during most of the broadcast, viewers were flying blind regarding scores and current standings. The difference between Max being in third or fourth was not just about him and Tomoki and Jason, it was about Jacob Sanchez pulling up from 7th to 3rd in the fp as a non-quadster, typically placed behind quadsters in the sp. But Martynov and Tomoki faltered in their fps, and Sanchez delivered a masterful fp that couldn't be ignored. 'Quads are something, but not everything,' as Ilia might say in a voiceover.
Ilia was smart to conserve his energies at U.S. Nationals. He needs to be sharp for the Olympics, as he indicated. Nonetheless, Ilia's fp score was way over-the-top, but so was Chock & Bates' score, and to a lesser degree, Amber's score. U.S. fed is giving their top 'stars' the big send-off.
But Jason was way more likely to. And that is a provable fact.
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- Feb 19, 2010
In particular, his step sequences, and particularly the one from last year's short program, are among the best in the world. Such an excellent control of his blade and lots of unique shapes and movement.
I think Amber's score was actually spot on. Actually, based on Adeliia's 149 at Russian Nationals, Amber could have been scored 165.Jacob Sanchez winning the pewter medal is exactly right. In fact, the real drama that NBC failed to cover is how close Sanchez's total score came to Max's total score!
The difference between Max being in third or fourth was not just about him and Tomoki and Jason, it was about Jacob Sanchez pulling up from 7th to 3rd in the fp as a non-quadster, typically placed behind quadsters in the sp. But Martynov and Tomoki faltered in their fps, and Sanchez delivered a masterful fp that couldn't be ignored. 'Quads are something, but not everything,' as Ilia might say in a voiceover.
Ilia was smart to conserve his energies at U.S. Nationals. He needs to be sharp for the Olympics, as he indicated. Nonetheless, Ilia's fp score was way over-the-top, but so was Chock & Bates' score, and to a lesser degree, Amber's score. U.S. fed is giving their top 'stars' the big send-off.
- Joined
- Sep 1, 2020
Tomoki is entertaining and it's nice to see him find himself through moving to Japan for coaching expertise. Tomoki's style is freewheeling, entertaining and kind of messy. He's popular and I'm sure his fans would like to see him at the Olympics. But, Tomoki is just now fulfilling some of the promise he showed many years ago as a junior coming up to seniors.
Max's style is very different. He's powerful, fast, and very dynamic. Max dealt with coming back from injury a few years ago. He's been 4th so many times at Nationals. IMO, Max deserved third place last year! For how hard he has worked and the courage and dedication he has shown under such life-changing circumstances, he deserves to be given full credit for his talent and his competitive drive.
Tomoki has never come this close before to top flight at U.S. Nationals. Perhaps we could call it fairly even between Max & Tomoki. But honestly, Tomoki had too many URs and q's on his jumps, which is why his score dropped in the fp. I think Tomoki was overscored in the sp and Max was underscored. The judges certainly did NOT give Max anything. Max earned his scores.
And like I said in my previous post, the real drama, missed by NBC, was Jacob Sanchez pulling up from 7th to 3rd in the fp, and by percentage points, nearly beating out Max for third overall.
I bet the U.S. men's team is gonna be the top three medalists. There's no reason to name Tomoki to the team. Jacob Sanchez has better BOW credentials than Tomoki.
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