In a class of his own: Orser owned 2013-14 season

[Buttercup]

Yuzuru won the triple crown (GPF, Olympics, World Championships). This is only Alexei Yagudin has managed so far. Yuzu the first japanese and the first Asian Olympic champion. Yuna Kim is the first Korean Olympic and world champion. Javier Fernandez the first Spaniard European champion.
They achieved these successes with Orser.
Orser beside great champions were born.

Hanyu won Junior Worlds and his first world medal with Nanami Abe. Yuna Kim was a junior world champion when she made the switch to Orser, and won another World title and Olympic medal after the coaching relationship ended (and that's without debating what color medal she should have gotten in Sochi). Anyone who paid attention knew that Kim and Hanyu were huge talents and future champions even when they were still in juniors.

I'm fine with giving credit to Orser for nurturing their talent and helping them succeed, but these great champions were certainly not born when they moved to Orser.

 

[HanDomi]

Hanyu won Junior Worlds and his first world medal with Nanami Abe. Yuna Kim was a junior world champion when she made the switch to Orser, and won another World title and Olympic medal after the coaching relationship ended (and that's without debating what color medal she should have gotten in Sochi). Anyone who paid attention knew that Kim and Hanyu were huge talents and future champions even when they were still in juniors.

I'm fine with giving credit to Orser for nurturing their talent and helping them succeed, but these great champions were certainly not born when they moved to Orser.

I think that is normal. Great coach can't make champions on this level if they don't have talent and abilities to be champions. What good coach is doing is to develop and show the right way to go on the top


And I agree that Nanami Abe did amazing job with developing Yuzuru for all these years

 

[makaihime]

Honestly, I think there's one person we're all forgetting here. Tracy Wilson. I feel shes had the most impact on the improvement of Hanyu's overall skating since he moved. She spent countless hours working with him on his basics, something he never really worked on when he was younger. This season, you can really see the fruits of her labor and that is what I feel he improved on the most under Orser; his basics as well as his stamina which really just improves with age and practice. Jump-wise...I feel Orser wasn't too big of a factor since Hanyu had all of it down before Orser and nothings really improved under him except 4T consistency; which again, is something that just comes with time and and he would have gotten there with any good coach.

IMO Orser was responsible for nurturing Javier, tapping into his talent and making a champion out of him. While in Hanyu's case, he was a diamond in the rough and Tracy was the one who more or less polished him (although much work still needs to be done obviously)

Orser does deserve credit, but I wouldn't credit him as being the best coach... just the smartest. To put together a world-class faculty with a top-tier jump technician, SS specialist, and choreographer who really understands the CoP.

 

[Buttercup]

IMO Orser was responsible for nurturing Javier, tapping into his talent and making a champion out of him. While in Hanyu's case, he was a diamond in the rough and Tracy was the one who more or less polished him (although much work still needs to be done obviously)

I wouldn't even call Hanyu a diamond in the rough when he moved to Toronto, maybe a diamond still in need of the best setting. As I noted earlier, I think that Orser's contribution to Fernandez's development was far more substantial. He's also very good when it comes to keeping skaters focused in Olympic seasons (Javi's Zayak problem notwithstanding).

Orser does deserve credit, but I wouldn't credit him as being the best coach... just the smartest. To put together a world-class faculty with a top-tier jump technician, SS specialist, and choreographer who really understands the CoP.

I think in some ways it's similar to Nina Mozer, who gets a lot of credit for the success of the Russian pairs. Mozer definitely runs a great training situation for them, but Stas Morozov and others have contributed their share as well.

 

[giulia95]

When Yuzuru Hanyu switched to Orser ~2 years ago, many people (including the posters on GS) expressed doubts about the decision and said that Orser might be a negative influence on Hanyu.

Good for him for proving all his doubters wrong.

HA HA, It was Yuzu who has just proved Orser to be wrong about him not being OGM MATERIAL!!!:

“I am FIRST??” asked the lonely and astonished boy in one of the most epic ( and paradoxical ) scene ever....


I have never had any doubt about YUZU's genius but I still have tons of doubts about Orser being Hanyu's coach !!!!

 

[Alba]

I have never had any doubt about YUZU's genius but I still have tons of doubts about Orser being Hanyu's coach !!!!

Why is that, is there something wrong between them?

 

[giulia95]

Why is that, is there something wrong between them?

Ciao Alba, the sentence you quoted is just my personal opinion and my answer to the poster who wrote about Orser : " good for him proving all his doubters wrong".

In other words, I had a lot of doubts before and I still have them.
sorry for my bad English!

 

[Alba]

Ciao Alba, the sentence you quoted is just my personal opinion and my answer to the poster who wrote about Orser : " good for him proving all his doubters wrong".

In other words, I had a lot of doubts before and I still have them.
sorry for my bad English!

Yes I know it was your opinion, and don't worry about your english. It's fine, at least for me.
I was asking why do you have doubts about Orser. Just curious.

 

[annca]

Honestly, I think there's one person we're all forgetting here. Tracy Wilson. I feel shes had the most impact on the improvement of Hanyu's overall skating since he moved. She spent countless hours working with him on his basics, something he never really worked on when he was younger.

:agree:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i4KPI12Fnws&feature=youtube_gdata_player

 

[giulia95]

Yes I know it was your opinion, and don't worry about your english. It's fine, at least for me.
I was asking why do you have doubts about Orser. Just curious.

Oh well, I try to to summarize my actual concernments..
about the technical aspect I ask myself how Yuzu can train different type of quads under a coach who has not been able to fix the 4S in two years ..

4S was already there when he moved to Canada at 17 and two years are an enormous amount of time if you compare how quickly Nanami developed his amazing trajectory of talent, which basically means that the 16 yo Yuzu performed a counter 3A in his SP and a spread eagle 3A in his LP with top- notch tecnique and had already a high rate of 4T success in his R&J n°1 .

If you add the fact the 15 yo astmathic Yuzuru won Junior World skating to an LP in which his genial japanese coach put the second 3A in combination with a 2T in the SECOND HALF of the program together with a 3-3 combo, you may realize why Yuzu was able to backload his actual programs , raking tons and tons of points ...
Well, the amazing champion was already there..

We have also to consider that Orser never fixed Yuna's 3 Loop, just removed it and applied the 3 times 2A philosophy .
But Yuzu doesn't need that type of philosophy,he is a jumping prodigy who's setting the bar higher and higher and still needs to develop, no wonder Yuzu himself decided the LP layout , refusing to remove the 4S as Borser suggested (based on what Borser said, he said something like Yuzu didn't even listen to him, if I remember correctly).

About programs I second Yuzu when he say he needs to develop artistically and to take ballet lessons ,
I hardly see any development in the field in the last two years, or a better posture and carriage, may be it's just the opposite, but is it PW SP a programm which is supposed to improve posture and arms movements??

Hope it helps! If you want to have more details you may want to read Yuzu 's fan fest .Ciao.

 

[Alba]

Oh well, I try to to summarize my actual concernments..
about the technical aspect I ask myself how Yuzu can train different type of quads under a coach who has not been able to fix the 4S in two years ..

4S was already there when he moved to Canada at 17 and two years are an enormous amount of time if you compare how quickly Nanami developed his amazing trajectory of talent, which basically means that the 16 yo Yuzu performed a counter 3A in his SP and a spread eagle 3A in his LP with top- notch tecnique and had already a high rate of 4T success in his R&J n°1 .

If you add the fact the 15 yo astmathic Yuzuru won Junior World skating to an LP in which his genial japanese coach put the second 3A in combination with a 2T in the SECOND HALF of the program togethere with a 3-3 combo, you may realize why Yuzu was able to backload his actual programs , raking tons and tons of points ...
Well, the amazing champion was already there..

We have also to consider that Orser never fixed Yuna's 3 Loop, just removed it and applied the 3 times 2A philosophy .
But Yuzu doesn't need that type of philosophy,he is a jumping prodigy who's setting the bar higher and higher and still needs to develop, no wonder Yuzu himself decided the LP layout , refusing to remove the 4S as Borser suggested (based on what Borser said, he said something like Yuzu didn't even listen to him, if I remember correctly).

About programs I second Yuzu when he say he needs to develop artistically and to take ballet lessons ,
I hardly see any development in the field in the last two years, or a better posture and carrieage, may be it's just the opposite, but is it PW SP a programm which is supposed to improve posture and arms movements??

Thanks. I had no idea about this. Do you mean that he had no problems with the 4S before going to Orser?
I agree that he needs to develop artistically and to take ballet lessons, maybe he is doing that, but we also have to consider that he is still too young. I don't know how he was before though because I didn't follow the juniors men, even the seniors not much really.

Hope it helps! If you want to have more details you may want to read Yuzu 's fan fest .Ciao.

I tried once or twice but there were too many post discussing show or something. I'll have a look again though.

Ciao.

 

[HanDomi]

Gulia, currently there is no problem on 4S overall. He is jumping it consistently in practices now, he just needed to overcome that in competition. Unfortunately in FS at Sochi it was first missed quad sal for the whole week of practices as some reports said. :scowl: I think, or I hope it will be stable next season in competition

 

[giulia95]

Do you mean that he had no problems with the 4S before going to Orser?

Of course not, I simply mean that Yuzuru was already able to land 4S successfully in ice shows, which is quite different from landing it in competitions.

BUt 4S was already there and it only needed to became consistent .. a lot of people complained about ripetitive 4S falls in the FS and I feel very sorry for Yuzu.

In fact, based on how incredibly quickly Yuzuru mastered 3A and 4T under Nanami’s tutelage and with text book technique, I presume he would have mastered the 4S too actually.

Finally you have to consider another very important aspect , that is Yuzuru worked with Nanami in a very difficult situation, poor /no facilities, no money, big earthquake, but still they managed to reach incredible goals, which led a legendary champion like Plushy to predict Yuzu’s OGM in Sochi.

15 yo Yuzu practicing 4T in a public session in Sendai rink. Amazing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8EYy2MaWIs

Sometimes quality is better then quantity....

ciao!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kn_aVIvPmUI&index=6&list=PL6CDD2A3F19DBDA96

FOI 2011, Yuzu failed the first 4S attempt, then nailed the second one, then did an hilarious imitation of Dai's Mambo

 

[giulia95]

Gulia, currently there is no problem on 4S overall. He is jumping it consistently in practices now, he just needed to overcome that in competition. Unfortunately in FS at Sochi it was first missed quad sal for the whole week of practices as some reports said. :scowl: I think, or I hope it will be stable next season in competition

The only time Yuzuru landed a 4S in A competions last season was in Saitama, where Nanami was around!!!!!!!!

I'm joking !! or not joking???

 

[PlaysInTheDirt]

Congratulations to Brian Orser!! It's wonderful to see his talent and skills passed along to a new generation.

What a shame that people cannot start a positive thread without it being hijacked by people with sour grapes in their mouths.

 

[Krunchii]

The only time Yuzuru landed a 4S in A competions last season was in Saitama, where Nanami was around!!!!!!!!

I'm joking !! or not joking???

He landed it both times in Finlandia, and his 4T's consistency was improved by Orser. Also his skating skills improved tremendously after moving to Toronto to train, in Sendai he just couldn't get enough training time and instead worked on his jumps since those garner the most points. When I think of how noisy his skating used to be and how he would trip in the middle of his program, I'm really thankful for Orser and his team for fixing that.

Also Yuna's loop was fine, it hurt her hips and back when she did it, so they decided to remove it, the loop jump is known for giving skaters hip problems, even if Yuna did take out a jump, it worked for her and she won the OGM without it

 

[giulia95]

Congratulations to Brian Orser!! It's wonderful to see his talent and skills passed along to a new generation.

What a shame that people cannot start a positive thread without it being hijacked by people with sour grapes in their mouths.

Actaully I’m eating milk chocolate because I’m a chocolate eater type, and I like sweet taste very much

In my native language we say “ date a Cesare quel che è di Cesare” , give Caesar what belongs to Caesar, that means give credit where credit is due.

Krunchii : Finlad Trophy is a B ISU competition.

 

[Krunchii]

Actaully I’m eating milk chocolate because I’m a chocolate eater type, and I like sweet taste very much

In my native language we say “ date a Cesare quel che è di Cesare” , give Caesar what belongs to Caesar, that means give credit where credit is due.

Krunchii : Finlad Trophy is a B ISU competition.

Still a competition, you can't say he only landed it once in competition when he's landed 3 times. Anyway Orser had asked Yuzuru if he wanted to take out the jump and replace it with another but Yuzuru had insisted on keeping it in there. If Orser can make it consistent in practice then during competition it's up to Yuzuru to land in, maybe he needs a good sports psychologist for his nerves or something

 

[giulia95]

Still a competition, you can't say he only landed it once in competition when he's landed 3 times. Anyway Orser had asked Yuzuru if he wanted to take out the jump and replace it with another but Yuzuru had insisted on keeping it in there. If Orser can make it consistent in practice then during competition it's up to Yuzuru to land in, maybe he needs a good sports psychologist for his nerves or something

I wrote in my previous message "The only time Yuzuru landed a 4S in A competions last season was in Saitama"

Yuzu has nerves of steal and doesn't need a psychologist IMO. He needs a coach to fix his 4S and to teach him the other quads he's actually practicing.

 

[Buttercup]

Congratulations to Brian Orser!! It's wonderful to see his talent and skills passed along to a new generation.

What a shame that people cannot start a positive thread without it being hijacked by people with sour grapes in their mouths.

It's also a shame that in order to recognize Orser's great work, some people have to play down the contributions of other coaches and choreographers who have worked with his skaters.

If you want an all-positive thread, start one in the fan fest section.