In a class of his own: Orser owned 2013-14 season

[HanDomi]

He needs a coach to fix his 4S and to teach him the other quads he's actually practicing.

AS I said, there is no need to fix 4S itself for him, because he is landing it perfectly in practice, what he needs to fix is to clear his mind and do it the same way in competition as he is doing in practice. And I think his 4S technique changed a bit under Orser development from what it was back in 2012

 

[Krunchii]

I wrote in my previous message "The only time Yuzuru landed a 4S in A competions last season was in Saitama"

Yuzu has nerves of steal and doesn't need a psychologist IMO. He needs a coach to fix his 4S and to teach him the other quads he's actually practicing.

My bad for reading it wrong then

but my point still stands that it's consistent in practice, what exactly is there to fix then? If he landed it every time in practice before Sochi then I don't see how Orser is to blame for his fall, it's up to Yuzuru then

 

[PlaysInTheDirt]

It's also a shame that in order to recognize Orser's great work, some people have to play down the contributions of other coaches and choreographers who have worked with his skaters.

If you want an all-positive thread, start one in the fan fest section.

No need to be testy. I'm not suggesting it's okay to downplay the contributions of X as a means to uplift Y. I'm saying it's sad that this thread was started to recognize achievements of one person and yet there are all these sidebar debates that have little to do with the purpose of this thread.

 

[giulia95]

My bad for reading it wrong then

but my point still stands that it's consistent in practice, what exactly is there to fix then? If he landed it every time in practice before Sochi then I don't see how Orser is to blame for his fall, it's up to Yuzuru then

this is a very delicate point to discuss... I think.

 

[cooper]

i think orser is a great coach and put a great deal in terms of packaging.. i believe yuna learned how to deal w/ pressure and media attention under him because he was a champion skater and he understood the nature of an athlete.. so to that i give him a lot of credit.. now.. he's proving w/ yuzuru and javier.. though every coach had some mishaps here and there.. and nothing is perfect...

but overall he's the best coach at this moment..

 

[Buttercup]

I'm saying it's sad that this thread was started to recognize achievements of one person and yet there are all these sidebar debates that have little to do with the purpose of this thread.

The first post in a thread doesn't necessarily determine the direction of a thread. The topic is Orser's selection for IN person of the year, which means that people will discuss why they he deserved it - or not.

but overall he's the best coach at this moment..

Best for whom? He's the right coach for some very good skaters, but then so are Nina Mozer and Marina Zoueva - and both Mozer and Zoueva have been working with their top skaters longer than Orser has worked with his.

 

[Ophelia]

I wrote in my previous message "The only time Yuzuru landed a 4S in A competions last season was in Saitama"

Yuzu has nerves of steal and doesn't need a psychologist IMO. He needs a coach to fix his 4S and to teach him the other quads he's actually practicing.

Yuzuru has persistence and grit, but I wouldn't say he has nerves of steel (yet). Exhibition A: Olympics LP.

He needs to focus more on polishing up his basic skating skills and strengthening his foundation, rather than just concentrating solely on jumps. In one of his documentaries, Orser was speaking about how he was pushing Hanyu in developing in those areas.

 

[giulia95]

Yuzuru had nerves of steel in Sochi SP and won the nerves battle over Chan in the FS, I think. And it was his first Olys at 19.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Yuzuru had nerves of steel in Sochi SP and won the nerves battle over Chan in the FS, I think. And it was his first Olys at 19.

I wouldn't say either of them "won" the nerves battle. They both had terrible freeskates for an Olympic gold and silver medalist. Most of the men lost the nerves battle that night. His SP, however, was marvellous!

I agree with him needing to polish up his basic skating. His upper body could still use finessing (sometimes I find going into jumps he gets a little lazy with his arms which breaks the interpretation). His speed is very well improved though.

Not sure why his quad salchow is still unreliable though, he appears to have good technique. But he's barely squeaking out his 4S, in the event that he does manage to execute it in competition (he usually fell on it last season). I've yet to see him do a solid 4S in competition the way he does a 4T. But he's continuing to improve and he's still so early on in his career so there's plenty of time to develop consistency on it.

 

[Meoima]

Personally I don't think Orser is a coach for developing jumps, most of his best jumpers till now all have natural jumping talents and all seemed to have their jumps before moving to him (Yuna, Yuzu).

But for sure he is good at polishing (basic skills) and preparing the needed mentality for them. And I think that is what we most need in a coach. His team seem to focus on polishing basic skills and that is the essential foundation for skaters to reach the next levels.

Remember Gachinski? Good jumping technique but his nerves failed him, not Mishin, who are considered the best coach for jumping technique.

personally I think Orser is doing well with his students (Yuzuru, Javi, Nam). They seem to be very comfortable with him. And that's more than good. All skaters need healthy training environment.

of course, we couldn't push all the blame on him when his students have some difficulties. He couldn't skate for them. He can only advice them.

And it's true that Yuzuru's nerves has been better after he won OGM. He fell in the SP but after that he performed so well at high level and insane speed like nothing bad ever happened. If it were other skaters, the program would fell apart for sure. It's the sign of better mentality and I think Orser played quite a role in that development.

Anyways, a talented coach could never make a skater champion if that skater has no champion factor from the beginning. for sure it depends a lot on the skaters themselves. Because when you go out to the rink, it's only you and your demon only.

 

[PlaysInTheDirt]

The first post in a thread doesn't necessarily determine the direction of a thread. The topic is Orser's selection for IN person of the year, which means that people will discuss why they he deserved it - or not.

YEP! I agree!

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Anyways, a talented coach could never make a skater champion if that skater has no champion factor from the beginning. for sure it depends a lot on the skaters themselves. Because when you go out to the rink, it's only you and your demon only.

Very true. In fact, I think it speaks to Orser's level of coaching if he's able to be POTY, and yet he's "only" a coach, not doing the actual skating. It's nice to see that the IceNetwork chose somebody based on overall impact (in this case, the success of multiple skaters versus a skater's own success). The obvious choice other than Orser would have been Hanyu, then Davis/White (although were they awarded last year?!), then Volosozhar/Trankov.

 

[jimeonji]

Honestly, I think there's one person we're all forgetting here. Tracy Wilson. I feel shes had the most impact on the improvement of Hanyu's overall skating since he moved. She spent countless hours working with him on his basics, something he never really worked on when he was younger. This season, you can really see the fruits of her labor and that is what I feel he improved on the most under Orser; his basics as well as his stamina which really just improves with age and practice. Jump-wise...I feel Orser wasn't too big of a factor since Hanyu had all of it down before Orser and nothings really improved under him except 4T consistency; which again, is something that just comes with time and and he would have gotten there with any good coach.

:agree:
and don't forget that it was under Tracy while Orser was with Javi/Yuzu at Olys that Nam stabilized his 3A and got it consistent. He had a very lackluster season up to Junior Worlds and then he landed his three 3As and won the gold!

 

[OS]

IN selected a political correct choice. (ie/Not a Russian, I'd vote for Yulia's coach )

Orser is a good coach, still... am I the only person who is disappointed with how Hanyu and Javier skated at the Olympics? Apart from the gold by default, the entire final flight of mens was disappointing. Hanyu hardly reached his true potential (over marked as well) and Javier did an Oda to have missed out the Bronze. Orser by affiliation do offer a great supportive coaching environment and he is clearly a smart guy who present himself well. His greatest asset is still his reputation as an almost OGM and one of Canada's greatest skating legends.

 

[Ophelia]

^I fail to see the logical connection between Orser being a good coach, but still being disappointed with his pupil's Olympics skates/the men's LP skates.

 

[Meoima]

I don't think so. In Sochi ALL the men messed up, so it's not just Hanyu and Javi. PChan DID skate well this season, he peaked at TEB which means he prepare his mentality a lot. Yet he also fell apart. :disapp: I think the disaster had something to do with the tight schedule and unwise training time.

Until now no one actually knows what happened behind the men event and why all the men skated so terrible that night. If we blame Orser for his students' underperformance, then all the coaches in Sochi should be blamed as well.

 

[OS]

I don't think so. In Sochi ALL the men messed up, so it's not just Hanyu and Javi. PChan DID skate well this season, he peaked at TEB which means he prepare his mentality a lot. Yet he also fell apart. :disapp: I think the disaster had something to do with the tight schedule and unwise training time.

Until now no one actually knows what happened behind the men event and why all the men skated so terrible that night. If we blame Orser for his students' underperformance, then all the coaches in Sochi should be blamed as well.

It is simply this. If I want to win a prestigious award for being best of the year, I'd like to be awarded because I got a A+* while everyone got As and A+ in one of the toughest field ever, not because I squeezed in a B, while everyone messed up and got B- instead.

Hmmm...this by default Adelina's coach should win best coaches of the year... lol??!! (Nah, I'd still vote for Eteri)
Actually had PChan not messed up, will he get this award? So sad, I really wanted him to win this year and break the Canadian curse.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

IN selected a political correct choice. (ie/Not a Russian, I'd vote for Yulia's coach )

Orser is a good coach, still... am I the only person who is disappointed with how Hanyu and Javier skated at the Olympics? Apart from the gold by default, the entire final flight of mens was disappointing. Hanyu hardly reached his true potential (over marked as well) and Javier did an Oda to have missed out the Bronze. Orser by affiliation do offer a great supportive coaching environment and he is clearly a smart guy who present himself well. His greatest asset is still his reputation as an almost OGM and one of Canada's greatest skating legends.

Oy, you can coach skaters as well as you want, but at the end of the day they're the ones who have to perform. You just give them all the necessary tools and preparation, and you maximize their strengths and mitigate their weaknesses. I would never hold Orser or any coach responsible for a skater doing poorly. Just like Hanyu performing well in his Worlds FS or Javier performing well at Euros isn't solely credited to Orser's coaching. It's like 90% skater, 10% coaches/choreographers/etc. The coach isn't going to do the jumps or the conditioning or the ballet or whatever for the skater, that's primarily on the skater.

 

[OS]

Oy, you can coach skaters as well as you want, but at the end of the day they're the ones who have to perform. You just give them all the necessary tools and preparation, and you maximize their strengths and mitigate their weaknesses. I would never hold Orser or any coach responsible for a skater doing poorly. Just like Hanyu performing well in his Worlds FS or Javier performing well at Euros isn't solely credited to Orser's coaching. It's like 90% skater, 10% coaches/choreographers/etc. The coach isn't going to do the jumps or the conditioning or the ballet or whatever for the skater, that's primarily on the skater.

I agree with you 100% But this is the person of the year, so is his coaching more extraordinary than any skaters/coaches/choreographers this year?

 

[Sandpiper]

I hate to say this, but I'm not surprised by how Sochi turned out. All the signs were pointing to this quad's men culminating in a splatfest. Hanyu (and Orser) deserve credit for out-COP-ing Patrick "COP God" Chan.