Johnny Weir Journal Update !

[momjudi]

So in other words Johnny is like 90% of the population and maybe it's time we stop putting athletes on pedestals and then be disappointed when they don't live up to our expectations. Off topic I have an eleven year old who is dreading the release of the names of baseball players who tested positive for sterioids because he's afraid all his favorite players will turn out to be cheaters.

 

[Brandi_DeLain]

He is a beautiful skater, but his programs all look alike to me.

And Evan is known for his versatility??? Thanks for the laugh!

 

[OldSkaterMom]

FYI....Evan began competition when he was ten. He won the Junior Olympics as a juvenile skater the 1995-1996 season. The following year he placed 4th as an intermediate. 1998-1999 he was National novice champion and 1999-2000 he was National Junior champion. He began skating at the senior level at nationals at 15, but remained on the junior level internationally until he aged out at 18, which really helped him gain a lot of international experience since his last year he won all of his GP events including the JGP. His first complete year on the senior circuit, he won the bronze medal at Worlds.

That is probably more info than you would want, but I am walking book of Evan knowledge, so sorry.

And Evan is known for his versatility??? Thanks for the laugh!

You are welcome!

 

[dizzydi7]

Johnny Weir Journal Update

Good point Momjudi. 90% of the population is like Johnny which goes a long way to explain why this world is in such a mess. I agree that we shouldn't put athletes or anyone for that matter on a pedestal. It's a long way to fall.

As far as skating goes, I watch the skaters and enjoy (or not) their performances. Once they are off the ice, I'm not that interested in their personal lives or life goals. To me they are just people who happen to have a rare talent. When they attempt to stand on a soapbox and preach, it's a real turnoff to me. This goes with anyone including actor, singers, etc. My feeling is "sing, act, skate, play ball or whatever it is you do best and ....shut up" Just because you have a talent for some particular thing, doesn't mean I'm interested or there is value in your opinion on other matters. Same thing with charity work, do it or not, but don't flaunt it because I'm not impressed.

Dizzy

 

[Vodka Shot]

FYI....Evan began competition when he was ten.

So, he began competing at 10, but first took lessons at 8, is that right?

1999-2000 he was National Junior champion.

According to his wiki (his fans did a great job on his btw) he first faced Johnny in this event, the 99/00 U.S. nationals. This was the first time Evan beat Johnny as well, Johnny came in 5th at this event. Of course that was the first year that Johnny skated as a single, prior to that he was a pairs skater. Then Evan didn't beat Johnny again until the 04/05 world championships. Of the (from what I counted) 14 times they've faced each other, Evan's placed higher 6 of those times.

That is probably more info than you would want, but I am walking book of Evan knowledge, so sorry.

I think it's pretty interesting, but then again I'm a massive dork.

 

[Sylvia]

According to his wiki (his fans did a great job on his btw) he first faced Johnny in this event, the 99/00 U.S. nationals. This was the first time Evan beat Johnny as well, Johnny came in 5th at this event. Of course that was the first year that Johnny skated as a single, prior to that he was a pairs skater.

Weir started competing in singles at the first qualifying level in the USFS system (Juvenile) in the 1996-97 season. From his USFS bio: http://www.usfigureskating.org/AthleteBio.asp?id=2282
1999 State Farm U.S. Championships, Junior - 4th
1998 State Farm U.S. Championships, Novice - 3rd
1997 Junior Olympics, Juvenile - 4th (he then skipped the Intermediate level and moved up to Novice)

 

[Vodka Shot]

Ooh, thanks for that link. The competitive history on it is wonderfully detailed. I think how skaters do in juniors compared to seniors is interesting. I like to see if it correlates any to later competitions. I mean can you really determine who the next great thing is based on junior events? Ok, sorry back OT

 

[OldSkaterMom]

So, he began competing at 10, but first took lessons at 8, is that right?


Yes, he received his skates at Christmas when he was 8. He wanted to play hockey, but couldn't stand up on the skates. The coach suggested that he take figure skating lessons and learn to skate first. When he started lessons, the thing he liked the most was skating as fast as he could around the rink in the free skating time. The instructor noticed his talent and asked his parents if he could teach Evan some tricks. So he did and Evan won the juvenile regional when he was ten.

That is a very fast ascent. The skaters must pass tests in order to compete at the various levels. Even at the beginning levels you don't start out of the gate at the juvenile level. You start at the no-test level and move through preliminary, pre-juvenile, sub-juvenile, etc. I don't remember the names of the levels now, because when my daughter competed figures were still required. Now it is Moves in the Field. The point is both Evan and Johnny moved very quickly into competitive skating after beginning lessons.

In 1998, was Johnny competing singles at the novice level? If so, Evan beat him that year, because Evan was champion. Evan is one of the few people, Kimmie Meissner included, who has won back-to-back novice and junior titles.

 

[Sylvia]

I think how skaters do in juniors compared to seniors is interesting. I like to see if it correlates any to later competitions. I mean can you really determine who the next great thing is based on junior events? Ok, sorry back OT

Generally, no, you can't really determine senior national and international success based on junior (or lower) national and international results.

In 1998, was Johnny competing singles at the novice level?

Yes, see my post above -- Weir won the bronze medal at 1998 Novice Nationals.

If so, Evan beat him that year, because Evan was champion.

Lysacek won the 1999 U.S. Novice title. He didn't qualify for 1998 Nationals in Novice because he placed 5th at Midwestern Sectionals.

 

[OldSkaterMom]

Lysacek won the 1999 U.S. Novice title. He didn't qualify for 1998 Nationals in Novice because he placed 5th at Midwestern Sectionals.

Oops, sorry. Got my years mixed up.

 

[momjudi]

Just for fun I pulled up the competitive histories of both Johnny and Evan from the usfsa website. I found 16 times they faced each other with Evan placing higher 7 times and Johnny placing higher 9 times.

2000 Junior nationals - Johnny was 5th, Evan 1st
2001 Junior Worlds Johnny was 1st, Evan 2nd
200l senior nationals Johnny was 6th, Evan 12th
2002 senior nationals Johnny was 5th, Evan 12th
2004 senior nationals Johnny was 1st, Evan was 5th
2005 senior nationals Johnny was 1st, Evan was 3rd
2006 senior nationals Johnny was 1st Evan was 2nd
2007 senior nationals Johnny was 3rd Evan was 1st
2004 COR Johnny was 2nd Evan was 5th
2005 Worlds Johnny was 4th Evan was 3rd
2006 Worlds Johnny was 5th, Evan was 3rd
2007 Worlds Johnny was 8th, Evan was 5th
2005 Marshalls Johnny was 2nd, Evan was 1st
2005 Campbell's Johnny was 4th, Evan was 6th
2006 Olympics Johnny was 5th Evan was 4th
2007 CoC Johnny was 1st, Evan was 2nd

Did I miss anything or make any errors going back and forth between the sites?

 

[seafoam]

My impression about the comments by Lysacek and Weir is, that Lysacek gets negative response mostly because skating fans imagine / purposefully are searching for some hidden meanings behind his words. Weir on the other hand gets away with his deliberately not-so-nice comments... Here´s an example:

Blades On Ice / June 2007, p. 79 (COI tour)
"It´s a beautiful painful song", said Weir about his solo. "Things have been kind of painful, I wanted to do something that meant something. A lot of people do exhibition numbers that don´t mean anything using music that just happens to be popular. But there´s a depth in mine, much more real feeling. It´s therapy."

Yes. I'm sure all 15 of those skaters who do exhibitions to "SexyBack" plumb the depths of those immortal lyrics. I know they all bring tears to my eyes.

I don't really understand the notion that Johnny doesn't get criticized for his controversial/snarky remarks. He gets criticized plenty. And people also defend him. That's just the way it works. Not everyone is going to see it the same way.

 

[Boxer]

you did miss one competition momjudi. Cup of China 2007 Johnny 1st Evan 2nd.

 

[momjudi]

lol, I realized that after I signed off but I was too tired to come back and edit so I just edited it.

 

[OldSkaterMom]

Yes.
I don't really understand the notion that Johnny doesn't get criticized for his controversial/snarky remarks. He gets criticized plenty. And people also defend him. That's just the way it works. Not everyone is going to see it the same way.

What happens regarding Johnny's remarks that are outrageous and offensive to some people is that his fans will just excuse it by saying, "It's just Johnny being Johnny." As if he has license to say whatever whenever he pleases, regardless of the content or to whom it is directed. I get so sick of that attitude. Why does Johnny's outrageous mouth get excused over and over.

On the other hand, Lysacek's remarks are never construed to be outrageous, but garner critcism by the bucketfuls. So why doesn't everyone just say, "That is Evan being Evan." What is good for the goose is good for the gander. It just totally peeves me because Evan never makes snipes and snarky comments about another skater. If anyone differs, please don't come up with generalizations or exaggerations. Give me cold, hard facts and produce the interview please.

 

[Snowgirl]

Maybe because people don't like that "Evan being Evan"?

 

[Tonichelle]

people are allowed to like who they like, agree with who they like...

I like Evan, I rarely disagree with things he says. Wish he'd be a little more tactful or drop a few things - or at the very least quit allowing the media manipulation...

but I don't fault fans of other skaters for being annoyed with what he says... for the same reasons one prefers one skating style over the other, chances are they're going to agree with one skater over the other.

but I do agree there's a double standard by SOME... but that double standard goes both ways.

 

[seafoam]

What happens regarding Johnny's remarks that are outrageous and offensive to some people is that his fans will just excuse it by saying, "It's just Johnny being Johnny." As if he has license to say whatever whenever he pleases, regardless of the content or to whom it is directed. I get so sick of that attitude. Why does Johnny's outrageous mouth get excused over and over.

Maybe because some people don't think what Johnny says is particularly offensive or outrageous? The reaction is just all out of proportion, imo. And, while you or some others don't think he's funny, there are many who find him hilarious. Humor is subjective, much like preferences in figure skaters Yeah, I roll my eyes sometimes at the things he says, but the good outweighs the bad as far as I'm concerned. And none of it is worth multipage threads of portentous harrumphing every time he types or speaks into a mic or video camera. That's just silly.

Maybe Evan doesn't often say snarky things about other skaters (not by name, anyway) but then he rarely says anything nice about other skaters either. One thing that gets overlooked in all the sturm und drang over the occasional snark is that Johnny is much more generous in making complimentary remarks about his competitors (and not just the Russians) than most of the other guys. It's one of his more attractive qualities, because it always seems sincere and straight from his sarcastic little heart, lol.

I thought the Dior comment was funny and not really mean-spirited, just as I thought Evan calling Johnny "leetle swan" (in a Russian accent, no less) or making cracks about Johnny's love of "heavy bird themes" was funny. Johnny is on record as thinking so, too. In fact, he said that if anyone but Evan had said it, he might have been ticked off, but since it was Evan, he just laughed. Of course, that was pre-Nationals...

 

[demarinis5]

Johnny vs.Evan has replaced Michelle vs Sasha regarding mutl page threads.

 

[OldSkaterMom]

And Evan is known for his versatility??? Thanks for the laugh!

I didn't respond to this before because I didn't like the tone of it and wanted some time to think before speaking.

Yes I believe Evan has versatility. Evan is good at skating character driven programs, such as Singin' in the Rain, Grease, Carmen. He wasn't just skating to music, he was portraying a character. Carmen, he was skating as Don Jose. Zorro is obvious, and he is being criticized for having Latin music again and for it being recycled Espana Cani, but, if you pay attention it is not. The same with Tosca. If you know anything about the opera, Evan is not just skating to the music. He is portraying the main character, Mario, in the second act. The music he is skating too is the tenor's part, not the female, Tosca's part. Mario was a painter, hence the cream colored shirt in the style he is wearing. His ending pose is very theatrical, portraying the tragedy of the opera when Mario is taken off to his death, Tosca being betrayed by Scarpio that he would save Mario's life if she would give up Mario for him. So that shows Evan's versatitlity and theatrical ability.

Lori Nichol choreographed both of Evan's programs and selected the music. She made Evan do his homework on Tosca before skating it so he would be able to interpret the music. However, as seems apparent, not enough people know beans about the actual opera to pick up on what Evan is trying to interpret. No one who has ever skated to Tosca has ever tried to that. Nor has anyone who has ever skated to Carmen ever tried to portray Carmen as the character except, perhaps, Katarina Witt with her death scene at the end. I believe Evan's Carmen will become a classic.

As far as recycled programs, Joubert used James Bond for at least 2 seasons as well as recycled Matrix. Long ago, Viktor Petrinko used the same FS for at least two years. Many skaters do it. It is not a crime. Evan's Carmen was first debuted at NHK in 2005 and I think it was among the best he ever did. It was executed perfectly. And National's Carmen will be among one of the best programs ever skated at a US Nationals.

The first Grease, done at the Campbell's Classic was a disaster because he wore this leather jacket which was so heavy he couldn't breathe. Two weeks later, after trashing the jacket, he skated it at SA and won his first GP medal, a silver. After that they decided it wasn't an Olympic program and started over.

Last season's, The Feeling Begins, was also a different type of program for Evan. He didn't particularly care for it very much, but it was good.

That is what I mean when I say that Evan's programs are different. You will see different characters portrayed and that is what I happen to like about his skating. He reminds me of Paul Wylie who used to portray different movie themes each season when he turned pro. Some of those are my absolute favorites are some of the all time best performances ever because Paul Wylie was a truly gifted artist who really brought joy to his skating.

Sorry for the long post. I am too verbal.

I forgot all about the "Swan" thing. You are right, Evan was into calling Johnny, "the Swan," particularly after the Olympics during the COI tour. That was pre-Nationals before the snarkiness began, and they both thought it was funny.

Maybe because people don't like that "Evan being Evan"?

Well people don't like "Johnny being Johnny" either.

Johnny vs.Evan has replaced Michelle vs Sasha regarding mutl page threads.

And doesn't it make skating just that much more interesting? What would there be to discuss otherwise?