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She didn't choose the program. Averbukh even lied to her and said it was just generic tragedy.
Plus, she even admitted in a recent interview she didn't even like the program.
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She didn't choose the program. Averbukh even lied to her and said it was just generic tragedy.
Plus, she even admitted in a recent interview she didn't even like the program.
Agreed. Gets my vote for the worst. What were they thinking?
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Just to note, Lobacheva/Averbukh themselves skated a 9/11 tribute program for their Olympic FD, just months after the event. Perhaps some posters could shred light on whether it was controversial at the time but I imagine it might have been too soon to perform that program.
Yagudin skated a tribute to 9/11, here is his Overcome exh: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2GvEMcd9qcs
At the time there wasn't the negative reaction to this program nor the FD of Lobacheva/Averbukh the way there was to Medvedeva skating to this theme. Perhaps because it was done in a different style (no street noises for example). Or perhaps because we didn't have internet the way we use it now. Many people didn't like the 2002 FD of Anissina/Peizerat either because of the words of M.L.K. being used, yet it didn't become a real scandal and neither did any of these programs receive the same amount of criticism as the program of Medvedeva and other skaters in our current times.
At the time there wasn't the negative reaction to this program nor the FD of Lobacheva/Averbukh the way there was to Medvedeva skating to this theme. Perhaps because it was done in a different style (no street noises for example). Or perhaps because we didn't have internet the way we use it now. Many people didn't like the 2002 FD of Anissina/Peizerat either because of the words of M.L.K. being used, yet it didn't become a real scandal and neither did any of these programs receive the same amount of criticism as the program of Medvedeva and other skaters in our current times.
Everyone knows what they were thinking because they said so. The knee injury made recognizable cultural dances too difficult so they made up a dance and called it aboriginal. Australia had the right to ban them from doing it and they didn’t do anything.
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Averbukh never saw a tragedy he didn't love...to exploit.
What's worse is the judges keep rewarding him for this.
Puhlenty of shame to go around.
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I don't know why I ever bother replying to you, but Australia couldn't do anything. We TRIED. So if you could kindly cut the bulldust...yeah, that's asking too much of you.
The worst part about Evgenia's program was that the music is perfectly beautiful without voiceovers and her skating is so emotive that it didn't need them to tell the story.
Is there an ISU mechanism to request that a routine be banned on racial grounds? Can’t imagine there was in 2010. Don’t know if there is now.
And who in the ISU would be the arbiter of a request to ban a dance on racial grounds? It was controversial and called out at the time. That’s as much as can be expected. The music wasn’t even Aboriginal as I recall. Some Scandinavian musician?
On another tangent in the politically correct world, figure skating is about the only winter sport that has “ladies” and men, not “gentlemen”. The rest of the sports are women and men.
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IIRC, Averbukh choreographed Ilinykh/Katsalapov's Schindler's List 2009-2010 FD by modifying one he did for a show. I/K's music was beautiful and they had a generally good interpretation of the program for their young ages but that gunshot ending seemed gratuitous. And then seeing celebratory actions like fist pumps from Katsalapov after a good skate, almost immediately following the shock ending, makes the interpretation seem less sincere.
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Australia did put in an objection. Indigenous elders here were extremely offended (and plenty of non-Indigenous people here were too). Of course, Australia vs Russia, yeah, you can figure out pretty quick how that turned out. And we got the ISU's message when they rewarded the blatant racism with a bronze medal.
The music "sounded" like Indigenous Australian music, but there was no, absolutely no mistaking the costumes and who they were meant to "be".
IIRC they had to change the music, didn't they? The original composer was horrified and said they didn't want their music used any more.
which also, nobody ever disputed. from what has been gathered in this thread, I surmise they didn't care because the reward they could earn (distracting from the injury) would far outweigh any social repercussion because of racism. so, they reproduced racism and didn't think twice about it. which is despicable in terms of social behaviour.
the real problem everybody here is also having is that it actually didn't have any real consequences. which just showed: you can do racist stuff and not get punished. which is the actual scandal. because people will never refrain from doing bad things if doing bad things will be rewarded.
on another note about plushenko and sex bomb:
the song was a HUGE hit in Europe at the time. a summer dance party hit. I was in primary school and everybody so wanted to hear that, all the time, at school summer festival. kids don't care about sex, they neither understand the innuendo nor do they care. for an adult, his exhibition was a funny take on a bad, but extremely popular song.
as for Misha Ge's crazy in love EX:
50 shades was not a bad book or bad movie because it features sex and alternative sexual practices, but because of the way it portrays a toxic relationship as romantic. Misha Ge did something nice with that EX, it was very harmless, and in contrast to what's happening in the 50 shades stories, he treats his EX partner very respectfully. I realy abhor those books, because they are (another) popular example of abusive and toxic relationships being portrayed as "true love", combined with the even more annoying concept of alternative sexual interests being the result of trauma and having to be "cured" by "true love". not to talk about the fact that it also is a fanfiction to twilight that merely switched out the character's names to be published. Misha did something sensual from that, which was far better than the source material deserved.
Not racial grounds but accuracy grounds. Australia fs federation could have gone to ISU and said d/s program is totally wrong and inaccuracate and woukd have won because what d/s did wasn’t aboriginal at all. So why didn’t Australia do this and make d/s change? The notion that d/s were going to change is ludicrous because it was their strategy to not do any recognizable dance!
Where do I say it is not racist? It is racist and that was part of the plan.
Australia could have done something. It was in the OD rules that all the folk dances must be real. D/s didn’t do a dance based on anything real. Australia could have gone to isu and as representative of aboriginals said “this is totally wrong” and he isu surely wound have agreed and banned the dance and maybe d/s would have done some Russian folk dance very very poorly and not even be in top 5 in Vancouver!!
D/S fail -“there must be a consistent theme based on a specific country or region.
The arrangement of the chosen music should give a genuine feel for folk/country dance. It should be very distant from the feeling of the Grand Ballroom.“
D/s fail- “Any type of folk/country dance music or typical dance of the country can be used.”
Where in the rules is there any provision to "ban" a dance for any reason (whether because representatives of a member federation declare it offensive, or anyone points out that it is an accurate interpretation of the chosen music or theme, or anything else)?
The ISU is not in the business of banning dances and have no provisions in the rulebook for doing so.
At most, they sometimes ban specific moves that they find offensive (upside-down split lifts), but that applies to everyone equally once they define what qualifies for the ban.
If a move is illegal and a team performs it anyway, there is a deduction that would be applied. But the rule making that move illegal, the "banning" of that move, can't actually prevent skaters from performing the "banned" move if they choose to ignore the ruling.
Banning individual teams' dances because of objections that they are culturally insensitive would open up big political cans of worms. How would you define what deserves to be banned in a way that could be applied fairly? I can't imagine how it could possibly work even if the ISU decided it was going to take a stand against cultural appropriation.
There are lots of ballroom dances (and on-ice adaptations thereof) or adaptations of folk dances that could be considered cultural appropriation by members of the cultural groups the dances are based on -- e.g., all the white people interpretations of latin dances. That is an issue in ballroom as well as in ice dance, for those who care about such issues.
It would be a good thing if the ice dance world in general were more politically aware and culturally sensitive about the processes of borrowing/appropriation that underlie its use of source dances. But that's a very complex issue that should start on a pervasive level, not by singling out individual teams.
What has happened in the past is that dance judges have sometimes let dance teams know at early-season events that they don't consider their OSP/original dance/short dance to meet the requirements of that season's prescribed rhythm(s), as a reason for lower scores. Usually when that happens, it's not a matter of anyone being offended, just specific judges imposing their own understanding of how a specific dance rhythm "should" be interpreted.
In the case of the "folk dance" OD theme, it's not realistic to expect all judges to be experts on the authenticity of all possible folk dance themes the dancers might have chosen in the same way that they already have a good sense of what makes an "authentic" tango or polka or rhumba.
If teams are informed early in the season that their choice of music or other aspects of their interpretation are lacking and therefore likely to lose points, they sometimes choose to scrap the program and make a new one that will satisfy more judges better. Other times they may believe strongly in their choice, that their interpretation is perhaps more accurate to the original source dance than the stereotyped ballroom distillation, and choose to stick with the dance and attempt to educate the judges about authenticity as opposed to the other way around.
It's a risk to stick with a dance that judges have disapproved of.
It could be a similar risk to stick with a dance that judges and others have been made aware that it will be considered culturally offensive by members of the viewing audience.
But under any rules in place now or 9 years ago, the most "the ISU" could have done would be to advise the team that the dance is not considered an accurate depiction of an authentic folk dance and therefore doesn't meet the requirements of that year's OD rules. And to offer the same explanation to all ISU ice dance judges so they can take that assessment into account if they are called upon to judge that dance.
If the team chooses to change the dance, fine. If they think they're better off keeping the dance and risking whatever points they'll lose to lack of authenticity than they would be by starting from scratch with a brand new dance they would have to compete with less training time, that's their decision. The ISU has no way to enforce what dance they do or do not perform in competition.
At most they could explain to the team why they advise making a change and explain to judges where they should penalize a dance that doesn't conform with the requirements.
But it was their plan and it got them bronze. There is almost no more controversial program! D/s must be talked about.
http://www.juna.ee/juhendid/obersdorf_adults10.pdf
The rules were clear and isu has the power to enforce them!
When ISU says programs must be reflective of an actual culture and it is not why wouldn’t isu have the right to ban them? Judges could have given d/s all zeroes in choreo I guess!
I don’t feel anyone in the thread is saying the program wasn’t racist or was acceptable. Some posts have said explicitly that d/s didn’t know what they were doing. Have said “what were they thinking”. Like it was unintentionally offensive and racist. No. That was part of the whole design. That was Linichuk “genius” as a coach. Let’s do 9/11! Let’s do racist dance! Linichuk works in the United States! D/s didn’t do their training in Russia! This is not cultural differences. Linichuk is basically an American now.
So talk about them. But don't pretend there were rules in place that never existed.
That is the announcement for the ISU adult competition, not for standard senior level competitions. Probably the OD rules were the same for adult senior level and elite adult senior level teams as for the standard-track senior teams, but there are some difference between adult and standard track rules. And non-championship events have more flexibility in setting some additional rules beyond the standard ISU rulebook.
However, nowhere in that announcement does it say that an adult team who showed up in Oberstdorf with an Original Dance that the organizers deemed offensive or not in keeping with the folk dance OK requirements would not be allowed to compete. There was no provision to "ban"
There are numerous instances in that announcement of things that are "not permitted" (i.e., banned). But either no penalty is mentioned, or the penalty is a deduction. There is no mention of preventing a competitor from competing or disqualifying them after the fact.
Because there is no rule stating that any dance would be banned for not meeting the requirements. At most, they would suffer in the scoring.
Those rules also state specifically that "Argentine Tangbo is not included in the above mentioned Folk/Country dances is not permitted."
What do you think would have happened if a team showed up at a 2009-10 competition with an Argentine Tango OD?
The OD requirements also say "Although the dance may consist of different musical selections -- fast and/or slow -- there must be a consistent theme based on a specific country or region." What do you think the response would have been to an OD with 2 or 3 different musical selections from completely different parts of the world?
What if a team decided to music and adapt to the ice dance steps that had been created for ballroom or ballet adaptations of folk dances instead of adapting the folk dances directly?
What if they decided they were too lazy to do any research so they just found some music and made up some steps and called it a Klingon folk dance?
Any of those would have been violations of the guidelines. Should teams who violated those rules be banned from competing? Or should they just suffer in the scoring?
Domnina/Shabalin's was the same type of violation of the guidelines. It also happened to be very culturally insensitive, especially if they specifically said it was intended to represent Australian Aboriginal culture (and not just "aboriginal" in a more general sense) while trivializing/mocking that culture and showing no respect for authentic traditions.
But there is nothing anywhere in the rules that says skaters who violate the Original Dance guidelines should be banned from competing. Therefore, it would be against the rules to ban them for that reason.
Yes, if they thought that the choreography met zero of the requirements. Or if it met some requirements, they could give credit for those and penalize the areas where it was not in accordance with the requirements.
It’s true that since I can’t find the rules for the OD I found a document that had them and that was for adult competions. The document mentions the rules exactly how I remember them being for the OD. So here is a much better link!!
http://www.skatecanadasaskatchewan.com/files/tech/isu_1567.pdf
This is why referees exist in skating competitions! So if something is illegal they have the right to penalize and instruct.
D/s violated many rules of the OD. No one in a position of power used their power to punish them.
“there must be a consistent theme based on a specific country or region.”
This was completely violated and ignored! Why didn’t anyone in the isu do anything?
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