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Should the ISU carry out an Inquiry into the outcome of the Ladies FS at Skate Canada
- Thread starter Mao88
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- Joined
- Oct 19, 2009
I thank jan and canskate for adding sunshine and rainbows to this discussion....oops, I mean "bickering". 
- Joined
- Jun 16, 2008
I was at the event last night. Javier got a standing ovation at the end of his performance, while not many people stood for Patrick. When Patrick's marks came up, the buzz was one of confusion as to how he had beaten Nobunari. The people around me (Canadian people, at that) were all saying they were hoping Javier would skate well enough to win so Patrick wouldn't yet again win with a sloppy performance. People were happy with Javier's skate, as evidenced by the standing ovation he received, and people were happy Javier won. If people weren't happy, they wouldn't have bothered to stay for the medal ceremony- almost everyone stayed for it.
Javier trains in Canada and is coached by Brian Orser, so he is likely regarded by some as an honorary Canadian. Nothing wrong with that. Canadian audiences would likely still cheer for him, but surely they cheer more because he is coached by a beloved Canadian skater. I love Javi too and its nice to see him win SC, especially after missing out last year with two good performances.
In regard to inquiry -- Of course not! I agree with the person who said the title of this thread presupposes that the ISU will ever investigate itself. But clearly in this case, it doesn't make sense to launch an investigation. That's like swatting at a pesky fly with a hammer and an ax.
In regard to inquiry -- Of course not! I agree with the person who said the title of this thread presupposes that the ISU will ever investigate itself. But clearly in this case, it doesn't make sense to launch an investigation. That's like swatting at a pesky fly with a hammer and an ax.
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Were the Universal sports commentators actually in the rink, or do they perform the broadcast sitting in a studio watching a feed on a monitor?
I suspect much of the audience are not die-hard figure skating fans, but just casual fans who decided to attend a local event while they had the opportunity. They may not know who the skaters are, much less where they train or who their coach was. They likely assume most foreign skaters live and train in their home country. Some people who attend CSOI, don't even know who V/M are, although most know Kurt and Joannie (after the Vancouver publicity). Honorary Canadian? Javier who?
I suspect much of the audience are not die-hard figure skating fans, but just casual fans who decided to attend a local event while they had the opportunity. They may not know who the skaters are, much less where they train or who their coach was. They likely assume most foreign skaters live and train in their home country. Some people who attend CSOI, don't even know who V/M are, although most know Kurt and Joannie (after the Vancouver publicity). Honorary Canadian? Javier who?
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Really? I find it hard to believe that the average Canadian doesn't know who Tessa Virtue and Scott Moir are. After all, they won gold in Vancouver! Please forgive my ignorance. I thought that many Canadians are avid followers of figure skating, especially those attending a GP skating event. Of course, it makes sense that not everyone in the audience is necessarily that knowledgeable about the sport. Still I thought that figure skating coverage in Canada is much more prominent than it is in the U.S.
Anyway, during the warm-ups, I believe the announcer introduces each skater and mentions who they are coached by. I don't know if that happened at Skate Canada since I didn't see a live stream. But if Brian Orser was mentioned as Javier's coach, I'd be surprised if most audience members didn't know that Brian Orser is a former Canadian champion and Olympic silver medalist. Honorary Canadian or not, Javier Fernandez is a talented skater deserving of his win. I read somewhere that Javier (from Spain) was treating Hanyu (from Japan) like a younger brother when they recently competed at Finlandia Trophy. And, I also remember reading that Brian Orser is like a "father figure" to Javier (and perhaps now to Yuzuru too, I suppose). One big happy family.
Really? I find it hard to believe that the average Canadian doesn't know who Tessa Virtue and Scott Moir are. After all, they won gold in Vancouver! Please forgive my ignorance. I thought that many Canadians are avid followers of figure skating, especially those attending a GP skating event. Of course, it makes sense that not everyone in the audience is necessarily that knowledgeable about the sport. Still I thought that figure skating coverage in Canada is much more prominent than it is in the U.S.
Anyway, during the warm-ups, I believe the announcer introduces each skater and mentions who they are coached by. I don't know if that happened at Skate Canada since I didn't see a live stream. But if Brian Orser was mentioned as Javier's coach, I'd be surprised if most audience members didn't know that Brian Orser is a former Canadian champion and Olympic silver medalist. Honorary Canadian or not, Javier Fernandez is a talented skater deserving of his win. I read somewhere that Javier (from Spain) was treating Hanyu (from Japan) like a younger brother when they recently competed at Finlandia Trophy. And, I also remember reading that Brian Orser is like a "father figure" to Javier (and perhaps now to Yuzuru too, I suppose). One big happy family.
Yeah, Orser mentioned during our chat at SA that Javier and Yuzuru actually worked pretty well together. And with Elene, must be fun to have such a diverse group!
Speaking of Elene, it's too bad about her poor showing in the FS, but I think it came from the pressure of being first for the first time -- I think the commentators mentioned that this was the first time she's won a short program GP ever. But she looks quite good out there. She looks very fit and I expect she will improve throughout the season!
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- Dec 21, 2011
Who did two triple lutz triple toe combos and had overall much better technique.
Until the Vancouver games, Canada had never won an Olympic gold medal on home soil. To be fair, Canada had only ever hosted two Olympics. The 1976 Montreal summer games where Nadia Comaneci made history in Gymnastics, and the 1988 winter Olympics. For Vancouver, an "own-the-podium" committee was formed setting a challenge for Canadian athletes to win more medals than any other country (likely they were expecting mostly bronze). A program was put into place providing funding and rewards for medal wins (unlike the US, China, Russia, etc., Canada had never rewarded athletes for their medal achievements). During the first week of the Vancouver Olympics, it looked as if the program was a total failure. The program organizers were beginning to make their excuses in the media. Then Alexandre Bilodeau (a mogul skier) broke the jinx, and won the first gold medal. Throughout the remaining week, the gold medals began pouring in. The "own-the-podium" program failed to win the most medals, but achieved what organizers likely thought impossible. The Canadian athletes won more gold than any other country. The medals which received the most media attention where Alexandre's (since it was the first), Joannie's bronze (due to her circumstances), and of course the men's hockey gold. Both Alexandre and the hockey team even received special mention in the speeches at the closing ceremony, and the camera did a closeup of him sitting among the other athletes. Why am I telling you all this? ...So you can see things from the Canadian media perspective. Tessa and Scott's gold was just one of many, and not the most publicized outside of it's sporting niche.
In Canadian newspapers, figure skating is hardly mentioned. Looking in the sports section, you will typically find only pictures and daily news about Hockey, Football, Baseball, and Basketball. If it were not for CTV and CBC broadcasting figure skating events, the sport would be almost non-existent in the minds of the average Canadian. However from what I have read on these figure skating boards, it would seem figure skating in Canada is still more popular than in the USA. However, don't assume the "average" Canadian is knowledgeable about the sport. Like any other country, there is a mix of interest levels. There is the "wouldn't be caught dead watching figure skating". "It is for women and gay men, and not even a real sport". Next comes the "indifferent people". They have nothing against figure skating, but have no interest in watching it. During the Olympics, they are watching other channels showing skiing, snowboarding, etc. These people wouldn't know the skaters, much less their coaches. I'll admit, I was once one of them. If you had asked me who Toller Cranston was, I probably would have guessed a TV news anchor man (he has one of those names which sound like an anchor man). "...and now, the 6 oclock news with Toller Cranston"
The next level would be the "casual" fan. These people will watch figure skating during the Olympics, or if they are bored and by chance had surfed to a figure skating event channel. These people may know some skater names, but not much else. I have one sister-in-law who falls into this category. I seriously doubt she watched the SCI broadcast this past weekend. However because of the Olympics, she probably does know V/M. My other sister-in-law I would classify as an "avid casual" fan. She records and watches all figure skating competitions on TV, but does not visit figure skating boards on the internet. She would know many of the top figure skaters names, but likely does not know bio details except what may be gleaned from commentator reports during competition broadcasts (some of which is likely later forgotten). Last year, I managed to convince her to attend SCI with me. She enjoyed herself, and asked me to let her know if there is ever another major competition organized in our area (I'll make an avid fan out of her yet ). As luck would have it, the Canadian Championships will be held in January at the same rink and we have our tickets ordered . Lastly comes the avid fans (of varying degrees), who do visit FS boards, and know bio information about the skaters. I would now classify myself in that category. However unlike others, I don't go to Worlds even if it is held in my area (too expensive), or typically travel great distances to attend an event. I guess I am at the lower end of the "avid fan" category.I have attended SCI in Kingston and Mississauga, but I do not recall if they had announced the skater's coaches during the warmup. Obviously, it is not something I pay attention to. If I am average, I would guess the same may hold true for the casual fans in attendance.
ETA: Re-watched some of the competition. They only announced the skaters names during the warmup.
P.S. My sister-in-law is a fan of Patrick, but at the Mississauga SCI event she also became a fan of Javier. I guess she likes his skating and on-ice personality. I think Kaetlyn also has that type of on-ice personality. I noticed the NBC commentators seemed to be taken with her.
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- Joined
- Sep 10, 2012
My thoughts on the Ladies FS result:
-Akiko was the real winner, for me, her program really was a
, and her PCS was far too low, she deserved something like 62-63 (for me);
-Kaetlyn deserved the silver medal, I think: she was fairly judged in the TES but, even if I liked her Carmen, her PCS shouldn't have been 4 points higher than Liza's;
-I don't like Kanako's jumps but she really skated almost the best she could, so she deserved a good score, but not the podium, for me;
-Liza was the bronze medal, for me: her 55 PCS was REALLY too low, but that fall in the 3Lutz was just
-Akiko was the real winner, for me, her program really was a
, and her PCS was far too low, she deserved something like 62-63 (for me); -Kaetlyn deserved the silver medal, I think: she was fairly judged in the TES but, even if I liked her Carmen, her PCS shouldn't have been 4 points higher than Liza's;
-I don't like Kanako's jumps but she really skated almost the best she could, so she deserved a good score, but not the podium, for me;
-Liza was the bronze medal, for me: her 55 PCS was REALLY too low, but that fall in the 3Lutz was just
- Joined
- Sep 10, 2009
In Japan, which is the current fs fandom, this sport doesn't have a section on the top panel of ticket selling machines in the convenience stores, unlike soccer, baseball, etc. You have to go to "winter sport" section first. In the ticket yahoo auction it doesn't have its separate section at all, it's listed in "others". So? No one is comparing popularity of FS to other sports. It's its own popularity, changing of it for the last years and corruption as one of the reason that is being discussed.
Yeah, someone merged part of it into this thread. I think posts #84 to #90 was the end of your previous thread (see the last sentence of post #85). I don't know what happened to the front half of your old thread, possibly an inappropriate discussion? My post #86 was in response to post #85. Also my post #91 this morning, was in response to post #88. I noticed yesterday evening the thread had appeared in two forums simultaneously. I guess it was in the process of being merged when I posted.
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- Joined
- Mar 9, 2011
Thanks - this is the thread with a title change
This is the thread - the changed title threw me. The old title was simply: "Should the ISU carry out an Inquiry into the outcome of the Ladies FS at Skate Canada?". Nothing mean about it. As for the politics, many have questioned the outcome and its a legitimate question to ask whether there should be an inquiry. That's the whole point of having a forum - to debate and discuss questions that arise, however uncomfortable the issues are for some that arise out of those questions. In my opinion, the title of the thread should have stayed the same (as the new one does not fully represent the nature of the discussion/debate) and the thread should have remained in "The Edge" as the discussion deals with issues which are wider than just Skate Canada.
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If the ISU perform an inquiry, they certainly would not discuss it in public. In any case, as mentioned previously in another thread, a possible explanation could be simple. Osmond did skate first in the SP, and was also a newbie with little senior history. The judges may have kept her score lower, expecting better results from following skaters. However, for many it soon became a splatfest. On reconsideration, the judges may have thought their marking of Osmond was too harsh. During the LP, they could have attempted to correct the situation by boosting her PCS. However since her LP was not as good as the SP, it became too obvious.
:think: The question then becomes, "Is this a fair practice?"
This was common practice under the old 6.0 system - holding high marks for the later skaters. Wasn't NJS supposed to get rid of this? If so, we haven't accomplished anything.
I agree with you 100%!!
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