Sonia Bianchetti's suggested changes

[xibsuarz]

Mrs. Sonia Bianchetti posted her view on the Grand Prix Final here.
But, as some may expect, she also said that, with a few exceptions, she misses the art and creativity the sport used to have. She comes to the conclusion that the high level of demand in the programs is the cause.
Quoting her: The programs are skated in a nightmare of anxiety for the next jump.

So, while it seems the ISU officials are looking for ways to change the maximum score achievable under the system, she makes the following suggestions to bring back "the appeal and the beauty of the programs":

1. Reduce the number of jumps in the free programs and award no value if a jump or a throw (in pairs) is marred by a fall. In case of a fall or landing on two feet on any jump or throw jump in pairs, the concerned element should be considered as a not completed element and called by the Technical Panel as no-value, and should not be marked by the judges either. No longer should jump attempts with a fall be rewarded by nearly as many points, if not more, as a completed jump of a lower level. Either the skater lands on one foot backwards on a running edge or he does not ; either he/she stands up or falls over. If he does it, he gets credit but if he does not, he doesn't get credit. The issue is that the current judging system encourages skaters to skate above their true ability, and before they are really ready. At the ISU Championships or the Olympic Games, the skaters should only execute elements they can perform at their best. Rather than elevating skating to new levels of greatness, the present system creates an environment to focus on points, regardless of true ability. This is also the main reason for the many falls that we witness to-day even among the top world skaters.

2. To improve the quality of the spins and avoid that "the uglier the position is, the better it is", I would propose to assign only basic values to each kind of spin (upright, sit, camel, with change of foot and/or change of position, flying spin or spin combination). The elimination of the so-called "features" would have the following effects:
a) Stimulate the creativity of the skaters;
b) Place emphasis on the basic qualities of the elements (speed, beauty of positions, balance, centering of the spin, etc.) instead of simply achieving levels of difficulty at the expense of the quality and the beauty of the elements.
c) Reduce the risks of .personal interpretation. by the various Technical Panels in establishing the level of the elements.

It would be the duty and the responsibility of the judges to establish with their GOE marks the extra value added by the skaters through their ability and creativity, such as: number of revolutions above the minimum required, new and original positions, speed, quality of a spin in general. In steps: use of complex turns, changes of skating or rotational direction, speed, depth of the edges, extension of the free leg, etc. An increase of the range within the GOE from -3 to +3 to -5 to +4 is also suggested.

Besides the technical changes proposed, I would suggest that secret judging be abolished. Secret judging was the worst decision ever made by the ISU since its existence. It is an insult to the skaters and covers up the deals among the judges.


So, what do you think about these suggestions?

 

[Sackie]

She makes some valid points. It does seem like it is more about the levels and points then about what looks nice on the ice - especially in regards to spins. In some events you keep seeing the same spins over and over and over again. There are very little differences since they all need to do the same positions to get the highest level. At the start of the season it is almost like you can see the skaters keeping track of points and levels in their heads as they skate rather then getting into the performance. And in the spins they are keeping track of rotations and remembering to put a leg here and an arm there rather then doing what comes and looks natural. And some of the landings in the jumps look terrible - just seems like some of the ladies are finding ways to keep their landing legs up so as not to get dinged for an UR or a 2 footed jump.

 

[shiroKJ]

Thank you for posting this, very interesting read and its nice to see it from a different POV.

 

[andromache]

Disagree with Sonia on reducing the number of jumps allowed (after all, skaters like Hanyu really are pushing the sport forward by executing all those jumps beautifully and giving us gorgeous presentation at the same time), and also disagree on giving 0 points to two-footed landings. I could get on board with everything else though, ESPECIALLY the spins.

 

[karlowens2]

I am also concerned about the place of jumps in competitions. There no ceilings in Jump values but there are in other technical areas and PCS. The result is a burst of skaters who are really jump specialists. And, because jump values are so much higher than other values they automatically win. It's become a trick sport like airiel and half-pipe skiing

The base score of jumps should be lower. Any competitive skater can do a 3 jump. You start with the base if you get around and land on 1 foot. Award GOE points only for exceptional jumping (height, air position, running edge, etc). GOE should have a larger range 5 to -5. A failed jump (fall) should receive no score. So, let's say a 3T -3T combination has a base of 8. But the jump is minimally executed (no height, off-axis) it might recieve -4 GOE and the result would be a 4. i.e. the skater would be better off doing a good spin.

 

[Ophelia]

Disagree with Sonia on reducing the number of jumps allowed (after all, skaters like Hanyu really are pushing the sport forward by executing all those jumps beautifully and giving us gorgeous presentation at the same time), and also disagree on giving 0 points to two-footed landings. I could get on board with everything else though, ESPECIALLY the spins.

This. Why should we limit jumps is some skaters are doing incredible jumps and also have the artistry? Last few years everyone was complaining men's is a splatfest, and finally this year men have adjusted to the jumps and integrated it well into their programs.

 

[VIETgrlTerifa]

I guess I'm forgetting what it used to be like, but I'm not really understanding the fear that the sport is becoming all about jumps or becoming a trick sport. I think we're in a sort of golden age of mens skating where most of the top contenders are not only doing incredible difficult in jumps, but they're also doing difficult spins and footwork. And I find the programs now are really complete with outstanding to legendary skating skills and real choreography with meaning and purpose and throughout a routine (even if we don't like a particular skater's choreography, we can't say that they aren't trying). I guess I don't see the fear yet as things are much more developed artistically now than they have been in the past. I do think things can be better, but I'm more about allowing real rest periods and allowing skaters to take time with choreography rather than needing them to do too many needless and ultimately meaningless transitions that conflict with the choreography or character of the choreography.

 

[Mathman]

Disagree with Sonia on reducing the number of jumps allowed (after all, skaters like Hanyu really are pushing the sport forward by executing all those jumps beautifully and giving us gorgeous presentation at the same time),..

I guess I'm forgetting what it used to be like, but I'm not really understanding the fear that the sport is becoming all about jumps or becoming a trick sport. I think we're in a sort of golden age of mens skating where most of the top contenders are not only doing incredible difficult in jumps, but they're also doing difficult spins and footwork. And I find the programs now are really complete with outstanding to legendary skating skills and real choreography with meaning and purpose and throughout a routine (even if we don't like a particular skater's choreography, we can't say that they aren't trying)…

I agree with these two posts. I think that Mrs. Bianchetti has her heart in the right place, but she is behind the curve. Maybe her objections were valid when the IJS first came out, but the skaters rose admirably to the challenge.

At least the men did.

 

[andromache]

This. Why should we limit jumps is some skaters are doing incredible jumps and also have the artistry? Last few years everyone was complaining men's is a splatfest, and finally this year men have adjusted to the jumps and integrated it well into their programs.

YES! I was one of the people disappointed by the men's splatfest the last few years, and if this was still a splatfest year, I might not be opposed to limiting jumps. But Sonia picked the wrong time to bring up this suggestion.

To Sonia's credit though, in the full version of her article she expresses a ton of admiration for all of the GPF medalists, especially Yuzu, writing:

Yuzuru Hanyu, the Olympic champion from Japan, was first both in the short and the free program. Both his programs are a perfect combination of art and technique. In the short program he was awarded twenty scores of "10" in the Program Components and twenty-four in the free program!!!! It has never happened before. His free program was a real masterpiece. The swiftness, the flow and the precision of his movements, in a program containing three quadruple jumps and seven triples, including a rare triple Axel-half loop-triple Salchow combination in the second part of the program, all preceded by difficult steps and movements, as well as beautiful spins, is the result of his supreme athletic skill. His jumps are of the highest technical quality, properly started and landed, without any visible effort. Impressive also were also his step sequences, especially, in my opinion, his choreo sequence filled with original and beautiful moves. Skating to the Japanese movie soundtrack Seimei, he was invincible in combining speed, athleticism and elegance. His skating is very soft and graceful and filled with passion. He surely is a natural talent. He is skating on another planet!

So it's not like she's not seeing what he's doing.

 

[xibsuarz]

YES! I was one of the people disappointed by the men's splatfest the last few years, and if this was still a splatfest year, I might not be opposed to limiting jumps. But Sonia picked the wrong time to bring up this suggestion.

To Sonia's credit though, in the full version of her article she expresses a ton of admiration for all of the GPF medalists, especially Yuzu, writing:



So it's not like she's not seeing what he's doing.

ITA. And she dropped some very nice compliments to Javier and Shoma as well. Perhaps her complain this year is more directed towards pairs and the throw quads?

 

[moriel]

I disagree with everything except the spins part.
This will benefit skaters that UR so awfully much. If you fully rotated but two footed, you get nothing. If you URd or pre-rotated tons, you still get tons of points (and may even get away with it and dont get called, getting the full score for it).

 

[Li'Kitsu]

I'm a little surprised by this article overall: she is calling pretty much every senior event attractive, is raving about all the medalists, especially in men and how they combine athleticism with art... and then says FS is losing it's artistic appeal?

No reducing the number of jumps please. I don't even think I see the point why this should be helpful... I've been lamenting for years that there are to many restrictions on said jumping passes in the LP, but the number is alright, IMO.

She definitely has a point about the spins though. Some rare skaters can still deliver gorgeous spins that get levels + GOE, but quite a few are just holding on to stressful looking positions, getting slower and slower... it's the same with the step seq.

And yay for no anonymous judging!

 

[MK's Winter]

On TSL's interview with Lambiel- he stated that the Short program should stay as is with the requirements in place, but that there should be no requirements in the free skates, and skaters should be marked on what they come up with. I agree with him.

 

[Violet Bliss]

All sports get ugly at times, often actually, as athletes push the limits, but figure skating is one of the few that also value and demand beauty. It is an unique sport with its unique and exquisite beauty. But it's still a sport. Do we want constant across the board beauty and an even field of athletic achievements, or would we rather endure inevitable ugliness for the occasional ultimate achievements of breathtaking epitome of perfect combination of ultra human athletism and grace, beauty and musical interpretation?

Failures and ugly moments are steps in a process to perfection sought by individual athletes as well as the sport itself. That's how achievement barriers and records are smashed in all sports. But as soon as a limit is reached, the goal post gets pushed further and failures and ugly moments continue, at a higher level. That is how all fields, not just sports, advance.

 

[VIETgrlTerifa]

I want to see some sort of change in the way spins are graded where a real classic layback spin that's fast, centered, and held and keeps the position throughout is encouraged scoring wise. The attitude position and back position should be a feature increasing the level somehow.

 

[shiroKJ]

I'm a little surprised by this article overall: she is calling pretty much every senior event attractive, is raving about all the medalists, especially in men and how they combine athleticism with art... and then says FS is losing it's artistic appeal?

No reducing the number of jumps please. I don't even think I see the point why this should be helpful... I've been lamenting for years that there are to many restrictions on said jumping passes in the LP, but the number is alright, IMO.

She definitely has a point about the spins though. Some rare skaters can still deliver gorgeous spins that get levels + GOE, but quite a few are just holding on to stressful looking positions, getting slower and slower... it's the same with the step seq.

And yay for no anonymous judging!

Maybe the Junior Men's affected her decision? :scard8:

 

[karlowens2]

But Sonia picked the wrong time to bring up this suggestion.

Oh, so there's a right and wrong time to speak the truth? The place of jumps now overshadows the points and the effect of everything else in a skater's program. What some are calling Hanyu's choreography is a bit of smooth footwork to set up the next 16 point jump. It would be interesting to measure how much of the 4.5 minutes is devoted to jumps - the approach, the jump and the recovery. Hanyu is just the beginning. Centralized federations are going to exploit this no-cieling rule for jumps. They will find kids with extrodinary verticle jumping abilities and start pushing 4A's, etc. I think the Chinese federation picked Jin not because of his potential as a complete skater. They picked him for the 19 point elements. If something isn't done to address the scoring imbalance of jumps vs. other elements and the lack of accountabililty in PCS the sport is finished.

 

[Ophelia]

^How do you know Jin isn't a "complete skater"? Complete skaters take years to mature. Jin is just starting, and he's ticking off one side of the sport already more than anyone else is. Who says his artistry won't catch up?

 

[gkelly]

With regard to both these suggestions and the issues raised in the Judging Trends and the Lakernik article threads...

I think there is always a tension between athletic and technical difficulty and the beauty that comes from high quality. But usually there is a tradeoff that more difficult elements and more difficult programs are harder to execute beautifully.

Only the very best skaters can achieve all at the same time. Right now Hanyu has been showing the best example of integrating everything in the same programs.

Some members of the skating community want to put the most emphasis on difficulty, and especially jump difficulty -- pushing the limits of what the human body can do on skates, higher faster stronger, regardless of aesthetic effect. This approach would also appeal to practitioners of other sports, and these athletic virtues are easier to score objectively/fairly (especially if more technology can be brought to bear). So this approach would be favored by the IOC, and by sports-oriented fans, many of whom would otherwise consider skating "not a real sport." (Even many freestyle skaters feel that way about ice dance.)

Others want beauty and quality to remain the primary determinant in what constitutes good skating, overriding difficulty when it comes to a choice between the two. These considerations also appeal most to arts-oriented fans who may have little interest in other sports but love to watch skating at least in Olympic years. But the scoring will inevitably be more subjective.

Finding ways to balance technical and athletic difficulty, technical quality, and artistry are important within the skating community to maintain all the areas that are important to skaters. It's also important in terms of marketing the sport to both sports fans and arts fans.

I think it's useful for all sides to have input into the discussion. And any given rule change may tilt the emphasis more in one direction -- if it goes too far one way, the next set of rule changes will tilt back the other way, but hopefully there will be some level of equilibrium in between, until top skaters push the limits beyond what was expected.

But I don't expect the ultimate decisions about rule changes to take an extreme approach either devaluing jumps or devaluing presentation entirely.

I do think that more distinction between the way the two separate programs are constructed and scored would be a welcome change. Either a short technical program with strict requirements and limits, and a free program in which skaters can push the envelope in difficulty of all sorts of skills including but not only jumps -- or else a long technical program in which skaters aim to include the maximum possible difficulty and a free program where they can showcase their best individual strengths including artistry.

Lambiel's suggestion of the latter type of freeskate, "no requirements in the free skates, and skaters should be marked on what they come up with" raises the question of how to score it accurately. How could you meaningfully compare, e.g., a performance by a Boyang Jin doing extra jumps and fewer or no spins and step sequences, and a performance by a 21st century skater doing fewer or easier high-quality jumps and extra spins with figures-era edge skills and professional dancer-quality artistry?

A strictly 6.0 ordinal approach would end up defaulting to each individual judge's personal (or national) preferences. An IJS-style approach could be adapted to eliminate spin/step levels and let judges only score quality and originality, rewarding added difficulty in GOE when it also serves those purposes -- i.e., make all those elements "choreo" elements -- and also relax the well-balanced program rules to allow for a range of minimum and maximum elements of each type that can score points.

Or there could be some hybrid or completely different scoring approach for those free programs. Suggestions welcome.

 

[Li'Kitsu]

Maybe the Junior Men's affected her decision? :scard8:

Oh yes, that was hard to watch. To be fair though, when skaters fall 3 times in a LP, taking out one of the jumping passes is no saving grace either...