Women's Artistic Gymnastics

[macy]

The real shocker is that it's only two points, lol!

Tang going from not even qualifying to silver medal is pretty epic, and Melnikova with her first individual Worlds medal is amazing. Wishing a speedy recovery to Ellie Black, though. She seems to be seriously injured.

the 2 point margin is actually a record! lol

did Ellie injure herself in the competition?

 

[MissBeeFarm]

the 2 point margin is actually a record! lol

did Ellie injure herself in the competition?

She won by exactly the same margin in Rio (2.100). But she kinda took it easy on floor today with all the OOBs, could easily have been 0.5 higher.

Yes, Ellie was in the running for bronze so she upgraded her vault to a Rudi. She had a bad landing (ankle) and didn't look good at all during the medal ceremony. She could barely walk up the podium with her crutches and was heavily taped up. She really seemed to be in a lot of pain. Elisa Iorio also got injured on vault and didn't finish her competition.

 

[Edwin]

She won by exactly the same margin in Rio (2.100). But she kinda took it easy on floor today with all the OOBs, could easily have been 0.5 higher.

Yes, Ellie was in the running for bronze so she upgraded her vault to a Rudi. She had a bad landing (ankle) and didn't look good at all during the medal ceremony. She could barely walk up the podium with her crutches and was heavily taped up. She really seemed to be in a lot of pain. Elisa Iorio also got injured on vault and didn't finish her competition.

So far, we've been lucky in JPG to not have any injuries on the ice. Biles probably went OOB on FX, hence the penalties, but no doubt threw her signature tumbles. Are there even MAG doing those?

 

[MissBeeFarm]

So far, we've been lucky in JPG to not have any injuries on the ice. Biles probably went OOB on FX, hence the penalties, but no doubt threw her signature tumbles. Are there even MAG doing those?

Yes, she went out multiple times (both feet on the Biles II, one foot on the Silivas, leading to -0.4 NDs). Yes, the men are doing her tumbling passes, e.g. when Uchimura did the triple double in London and the judges didn't realize it was a triple twist and only credited him with a double at first lol. The Silivas is incredibly common in MAG as well (as is the Moors she used to do instead of the triple double). The Biles I isn't really worth it in MAG so we don't see it. Generally MAG tumbling is more difficult in the sense that they do much more difficult combinations of skills. Biles' difficulty is more based on one powerful tumble per pass, not combinations. However, I'm sure Biles could keep up with most MAG floor workers except a few on the top.

 

[macy]

congrats to Simone for becoming the most decorated gymnast in world championship history

we are less than a year out from Tokyo, which if everything goes as planned, will be her last competition. what will become of the US womens team after her? Simone has carried them for the last 6-7 years...will the rest of the world catch up to them? Who will "lead" the team? Will we see anyone else retire after next year?

i think Suni Lee has LOADS of potential and could easily be US #1 after Simone. I am eager to see when and how Riley will return as she could be no. 1 as well.

 

[Edwin]

congrats to Simone for becoming the most decorated gymnast in world championship history

we are less than a year out from Tokyo, which if everything goes as planned, will be her last competition. what will become of the US womens team after her? Simone has carried them for the last 6-7 years...will the rest of the world catch up to them? Who will "lead" the team? Will we see anyone else retire after next year?

i think Suni Lee has LOADS of potential and could easily be US #1 after Simone. I am eager to see when and how Riley will return as she could be no. 1 as well.

Simone is really something, the likes of her we will probably not see again in our lifetime. She'll probably want to go out with a bang in Tokyo, and is already on the right trajectory.

Will USA fall back without Simone? Probably, but Simone has inspired lots of girls to try gymnastics for she is so likeable. And she has shown what work is needed and how to persevere, survive and regroup.

Will the playing field in the team event be more equal? Russia the perennial silver medalists, China the bronze? Will they shuffle their places on the pedestal around? Neither seem to be able to break to the top like Romania has done so many times, the Russian team is getting old and crippled, the Chinese too young and unstable, BRA, FRA, ITA, ...

Russia with its huge resources always have these outstanding juniors, but the Rods run them into the ground or injury before realising their full potential.

 

[macy]

Simone is really something, the likes of her we will probably not see again in our lifetime. She'll probably want to go out with a bang in Tokyo, and is already on the right trajectory.

Will USA fall back without Simone? Probably, but Simone has inspired lots of girls to try gymnastics for she is so likeable. And she has shown what work is needed and how to persevere, survive and regroup.

Will the playing field in the team event be more equal? Russia the perennial silver medalists, China the bronze? Will they shuffle their places on the pedestal around? Neither seem to be able to break to the top like Romania has done so many times, the Russian team is getting old and crippled, the Chinese too young and unstable, BRA, FRA, ITA, ...

Russia with its huge resources always have these outstanding juniors, but the Rods run them into the ground or injury before realising their full potential.

well let's look at who else the US has, not considering if anyone retires after the Olympics-

Riley McCusker- a strong all arounder, great on bars, wonderful grace and dance, Nastia-esque
Suni Lee- another strong all arounder, even better on bars, seems relatively steady
Grace McCallum- reliable, another relatively good all arounder, but nothing really "star" quality about her gymnastics. She delivers when needed, but not a top scorer.
Kara Eaker- good beam specialist but a bit nervy, can be used on other events if needed.
Jade Carey- very strong all arounder, even stronger on vault and floor, has some really hard skills in the making, like a triple-double on floor. She could also be a team leader.
McKayla Skinner- a bit rough around the edges and needs some polishing/cleaning up with her form, but can be counted on for most all events except for bars. also can do some tough skills.
Morgan Hurd- had a rough season this year and didn't make the world team, but is a good all arounder when she's on. 2017 world aa champ, very musical and nice to watch. hoping she comes back strong.
Jordan Chiles- US silver medalist in 2017 (i think) but has struggled since. good on vt/fx.

i think that's most of the big names, not sure who else is coming up in the junior ranks as a new senior next year? last i heard Laurie Hernandez is still working on a comeback for next year.

 

[MissBeeFarm]

well let's look at who else the US has, not considering if anyone retires after the Olympics-

Riley McCusker- a strong all arounder, great on bars, wonderful grace and dance, Nastia-esque
Suni Lee- another strong all arounder, even better on bars, seems relatively steady
Grace McCallum- reliable, another relatively good all arounder, but nothing really "star" quality about her gymnastics. She delivers when needed, but not a top scorer.
Kara Eaker- good beam specialist but a bit nervy, can be used on other events if needed.
Jade Carey- very strong all arounder, even stronger on vault and floor, has some really hard skills in the making, like a triple-double on floor. She could also be a team leader.
McKayla Skinner- a bit rough around the edges and needs some polishing/cleaning up with her form, but can be counted on for most all events except for bars. also can do some tough skills.
Morgan Hurd- had a rough season this year and didn't make the world team, but is a good all arounder when she's on. 2017 world aa champ, very musical and nice to watch. hoping she comes back strong.
Jordan Chiles- US silver medalist in 2017 (i think) but has struggled since. good on vt/fx.

i think that's most of the big names, not sure who else is coming up in the junior ranks as a new senior next year? last i heard Laurie Hernandez is still working on a comeback for next year.

You forgot Leanne Wong and Trinity Thomas, both part of the National Team as well. From the Juniors Konnor McClain is the one to watch (but she doesn't turn senior until 2021). Sydney Barros (from Texas Dreams, so better not get your hopes up) and Skye Blakely will also turn senior by 2021.

I'm very pessimistic about McCusker with her illness and injuries and incompetent coach. Hernandez seems to get back into the game very late (by this time last quad Raisman's comeback was right on track with her going to Worlds), but I would love to be surprised by her.

 

[MissBeeFarm]

Simone is really something, the likes of her we will probably not see again in our lifetime. She'll probably want to go out with a bang in Tokyo, and is already on the right trajectory.

Will USA fall back without Simone? Probably, but Simone has inspired lots of girls to try gymnastics for she is so likeable. And she has shown what work is needed and how to persevere, survive and regroup.

Will the playing field in the team event be more equal? Russia the perennial silver medalists, China the bronze? Will they shuffle their places on the pedestal around? Neither seem to be able to break to the top like Romania has done so many times, the Russian team is getting old and crippled, the Chinese too young and unstable, BRA, FRA, ITA, ...

Russia with its huge resources always have these outstanding juniors, but the Rods run them into the ground or injury before realising their full potential.

I think the US will do very well even without Simone, at least in Team Finals. They simply have the most depth and ability to hit difficult and well executed routines under pressure. No other team (maybe individuals, but no team) comes close to that. And even when the US makes mistakes, the other teams do as well and very rarely can take advantage.

I'm sure EFs will see many more winners with Simone being out of the equation, and even in the AA competition there's potential for a non-American upset. E.g. Tang would have won in Stuttgart without Simone.

 

[TontoK]

I think the US will do very well even without Simone, at least in Team Finals. They simply have the most depth and ability to hit difficult and well executed routines under pressure. No other team (maybe individuals, but no team) comes close to that. And even when the US makes mistakes, the other teams do as well and very rarely can take advantage.

I'm sure EFs will see many more winners with Simone being out of the equation, and even in the AA competition there's potential for a non-American upset. E.g. Tang would have won in Stuttgart without Simone.

I saw an analysis, but admittedly did not run the numbers myself. In the Team Finals, if Simone did not compete, and her scores were replaced with the discarded scores from qualifying, Team USA would still have won by about two points.

Simone is phenomenal, but there is more to the Americans than just her.

In terms of gold medals, without Simone, Team USA would still have won (if you put stock in the aforementioned analysis), and Jade Carey would have won vault and Suni Lee would have won floor.

It would still be a very strong team.

 

[macy]

some fun news for your friday- Simone Biles is headlining her own post olympic tour in 2020! looks like she will have an all-women line up with elite and NCAA stars including Katelyn Ohashi, and Miss Val (former head coach for UCLA) will be doing choreography. i really love she is putting some attention on collegiate stars too, even though Katelyn was former elite. Miss Val is perfect for the job. hoping to also see some more former elites turned collegiates like Kyla Ross and Maggie Nichols.

According to the article, USA gymnastics has not put together a post olympic tour like they previously have (Kellogg's tour of champions...also not surprising with their bankruptcy) and is supportive of Simone doing her own.

https://olympics.nbcsports.com/2019/12/04/simone-biles-gymnastics-tour/

 

[Johar]

Is Aliya Mustafina still competing?

 

[MissBeeFarm]

Is Aliya Mustafina still competing?

Theoretically yes. She competed in the beginning of the year and was part of both the European Championships and European Games team this year. But both times she withdrew. Later this year she annouced she wouldn't compete this season anymore and instead focus on Tokyo next year. We haven't seen much from her in the gym since summer though, but she hasn't retired.

Personally, I'm not sure she'll make it back. The ban of the Russian flag at the Olympics would be a great excuse for her honestly. Much like Medvedeva she has stated she doesn't want to compete under a neutral flag and while I'm sure she'd compete anyway if it were her first Olympics (like Evgenia) or if she were in the shape of her life, I also believe she could use this opportunity to retire. But if anyone can surprise me, it's Mustafina!

 

[macy]

i really hope the virus doesn't affect any qualifying competitions for any country by this summer...how would they pick olympic teams if nationals and or trials were to be cancelled? i know we still have a bit to go before summer, but i can't help but think worst case scenario.

also, are gyms still open? i can't imagine how terrible it would be if anyone had to miss training with the olympics so close.

 

[Edwin]

i really hope the virus doesn't affect any qualifying competitions for any country by this summer...how would they pick olympic teams if nationals and or trials were to be cancelled? i know we still have a bit to go before summer, but i can't help but think worst case scenario.

also, are gyms still open? i can't imagine how terrible it would be if anyone had to miss training with the olympics so close.

GP events have been cancelled.

 

[macy]

GP events have been cancelled.

what are those? are they similar to FS GP events?

 

[Edwin]

what are those? are they similar to FS GP events?

I don't follow gymnastics that closely anymore, but FIG changed its qualification system to make the GP more interesting and valuable. Best peruse the FIG website for the what's and why's.

 

[MissBeeFarm]

what are those? are they similar to FS GP events?

They aren't called GPs, they are called World Cups. There are two kinds of World Cups: All Around (AA) World Cups, where the gymnast has to perform on all events and the scores are added together. Then there are Apparatus World Cups, where an individual winner for each event is selected.

Now, these World Cups have become very important these last two season because they are part of the Olympic qualifying process. In short: at the Olympics each country can send a team (4 gymnasts) plus 2 individual gymnasts (these individual gymnasts don't take part in the team competition). The qualified teams are those which placed 1-3 at 2018 Worlds + an additional 9 teams from 2019 Worlds (12 teams altogether). That part of Olympic qualification is done. However, those World Cups (along with Continental Championships like Euros, Asian Games etc.) decide who gets the individual spots.

There are four Apparatus World Cups (Cottbus, Melbourne, Baku, Doha) and over two seasons gymnasts can enter these World Cups and get points (30 for winning an event, 25 for 2nd place and so on). The three best points are added together. E.g. American Jade Carey won vault three times so she has the maximum points (90). Whoever has the highest amount of points after all 8 Apparatus World Cups are done gets to go to the Olympics. So Jade Carey has already secured her spot as no one can beat her maximum of 30 points. This way the 4 event winners on the women's side and 6 on the men's side are awarded Olympic spots. The last two World Cups of this series got cancelled though (Baku right in the middle after qualification, and Doha). So some gymnasts didn't even get the chance to compete three times.

Now on to the AA World Cups. Once again, there are four: American Cup, Stuttgart, Birmingham, Tokyo. Here an additional Olympic spot can be won for a country (not an individual spot assigned to a gymnast by name). The three countries placing highest after the whole series is done get a spot for the Olympics. Stuttgart, Birmingham and Tokyo got cancelled, and the FIG states the AA series can only count for the Olympics if at least three meets happen. So no one knows what'll happen here either.

Euros got cancelled too (another possibility to earn an individual spot for a country).

So, yeah, it's a mess.

Now most gymnasts in Asia and Europe can't train for the unforseeable future since their gyms are closed. National competitions have been cancelled too. Now the only question is if the Olympics will happen...

 

[Edwin]

Thanks for your answer, Macy.

IOC keeps its hopes high, but the situation is getting more difficult by the week as more and more athletes cannot train properly and doubt over IOC's real intentions regarding Tokyo 2020 take over.

 

[macy]

who else is hoping and praying Simone doesn't retire now that the olympics have been postponed? i haven't seen her post anything on social media regarding