Women's FS - 2022 Olympics: Thoughts?

[moonvine]

I had to familiarize myself with that case. So he tested positive for one type of steroid while claiming he wasn't using steroids at all past a certain point in time near the Olympics, then oddly enough claimed someone put something in his drink and that it was all "planned" to screw him. More conspiracy stories . . .

There’s an ESPN 30 by 30 on Ben Johnson.

 

[moonvine]

well that's why there's options, some people do really well with the soft and fluffy coaches, some do better with semi-strict, some do well with strict, see Kostornaia as someone who left Eteri and went somewhere they weren't strict and she realized she needed the strictness.

I don’t think anyone is ever going to characterize Raf as “soft and fluffy.” Eteri isn’t “strict.” She is abusive. The Karolyis weren’t “strict.” They were abusive.

 

[Amei]

I don’t think anyone is ever going to characterize Raf as “soft and fluffy.” Eteri isn’t “strict.” She is abusive. The Karolyis weren’t “strict.” They were abusive.

I didn't say Raf was 'soft and fluffy', in fact I didn't name any coaches in my comment.

 

[Arigato]

This is figure skating, it’s not skate jumping. It’s bad enough there’s no cap on TES but there is on PCS.

I find that annoying as well. Why don't they increase the bloody PCS already.

 

[moonvine]

All this talk about friendship but I have never seen one skater give up a gold medal to their “friend”

A US speed skater gave up her spot on the Olympic team to her friend. She ended up on the team also. Great story. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bu...hen-she-won-gold/amp_articleshow/89597939.cms

At their best, the Olympics are a global celebration and way to bring the world together through sport.

At their worst, which is far too often, they’re a sheep show. Like this was.

 

[Mathman]

I absolutely would’ve given Sasha the gold over Anna. 5 quads? Girl was amazing!! I don’t blame her for the honest reaction. In 2018 Zagitova won based on her jumping all in the 2nd half of the program. Trusova should have won for using this judging system to her advantage as well. To be honest, more people are talking about her program than Anna’s. It was just more interesting and exciting to see the little girl doing the impossible.

The judges agreed with you!

Trusova with her amazing 5 quads won the LP and Shcherbakova with two quads placed 2nd, in the LP. Anna had a big lead carrying over from the short program, and these extra points edged Sasha overall.

 

[anonymoose_au]

The motto is “faster, higher, stronger” and they’ve added “together.” So it’s now “faster, higher, stronger - together.”

That's nice

The Olympic Creed is a good reminder too. I guess it's really hard in the moment to remember it.

I still hesitate to condemn Sasha for her outburst. It must be hard to always be second or third best especially after her success in Juniors. Had she never ever won a gold she would - ironically - probably have been better prepared for this.

 

[Amei]

That's nice

The Olympic Creed is a good reminder too. I guess it's really hard in the moment to remember it.

I still hesitate to condemn Sasha for her outburst. It must be hard to always be second or third best especially after her success in Juniors. Had she never ever won a gold she would - ironically - probably have been better prepared for this.

Yeah, I've thought this as well, she was the skater coming into seniors that we all talked about not if she would win, but by how much and that just hasn't really been the case. I went Youtube searched this, but its a very vague show of Shcherbakova's journey to Olympic gold and it touches briefly that she was the first in practice to land a quad and was prepping for international competitions but then she got hurt and while she was in a cast Trusova goes out and lands the first quads in the competition and wins titles in the junior circuit it kinda hits at the thought that she was so successful in juniors but it hasn't particularly materialized in the seniors

 

[Shayuki]

I still hesitate to condemn Sasha for her outburst. It must be hard to always be second or third best especially after her success in Juniors. Had she never ever won a gold she would - ironically - probably have been better prepared for this.

It still is not good. She's not a little child anymore, she's 17. At that age you're supposed to be able to lose with dignity. And really, maybe she should put some effort into anything other than jumps before complaining. It's really starting to get old.

One thing I can guarantee is that if Anna had come second she would not have said any negative words of the sort.

 

[KaoriFan]

I love Anna. She is like what the hell is happening to all the girls around me?

Whatever happen with the investigations and suspicions of all Eteri skaters now, I like those qualities about Anna too. She always keep her composure and well behaved.

 

[anonymoose_au]

And really, maybe she should put some effort into anything other than jumps before complaining. It's really starting to get old.

She did! Last season and all she got for her troubles was people making fun of her efforts and losing by 20 points to skaters with similar content (2 quads).

You can go back and read the comments if you like. I tried defending her, but all I got was "Sasha's a jumper not a performer, she looks stupid trying to pretend."

Skaters who have "artistry" get so much leeway here, but if you're a technician you're second class. It's like people don't stop to think how extraordinarily difficult it is to do 5 quads it's like "And?! Is that all you got?"

Everyone will defend Jason Brown's (and I'm a fan of Jason) artistry to the death, but apparently you're not a 'true" skating fan of you appreciate and admire Sasha's- and other technical skaters - abilities.

 

[Trusova4Ever]

But was it a mistake to think the only way she could win was by going for them? At Russian Nationals (December 2020) not this year) a fabulously skated SP with only a 2A got her 75.40 points while both Kamila and Anna were ahead of her. Anna by so much that only a 3A with +GOE would have tied her with Anna or given her the lead. And both Anna and Kamila made errors and yet Sasha was the one down in 4th.

And in the FS Sasha's 2 Quad Lutz, Quad Lutz-3T combination and 3 3-3 combination long program was scored 170.XX points. And distantly in 3rd place behind Anna's 183.00 and Kamila in the FS. She places 3rd overall.

So when she focuses on the "artistry" skating clean and with only 2 Quads and no 3A her reward is to get scored behind the leader by 20 points! So she needed 2-3 more quads just to beat a 1-Quad Anna at Nationals.

Then when she makes history here she is still scored behind Anna, I do not count Sasha winning the FS by less than 2 points a fair margin. Anna should fairly be very ahead in the SP, Sasha should have been ahead significantly in the FS and then it should have been a nail-biter like in 2018 as to who gained the victory.


But Sasha is treated unfairly either way. She goes for clean easy content for her but still the hardest in the Russian field and performed both programs to the highest quality and is told hey not good enough you get 4th, 3rd, and 3rd overall, you need a 3A and 4-5 Quads so your bv will be so high they cannot cheat you out of the victory. Then in another competition she goes for the 3Axel 4-5 Quads and executes most of it and her bv advantage still conveniently evaporates and everyone says oh go for only a double Axel on the SP and 2-3 Quads and you would've won. As if that makes any sense mathematically.

SP at Rus Nats with a 2A in Dec 2020: 75.XX
SP at 2022 Olympics with 3A>fsll: 74.XX

LP at Rus Nat with 2 QLz: 170.XX
LP at 2022 Olympics with 5 Quads: 177.XX

No matter what she does she is always punished, she tries the "Artistic" way and she loses to the 1-Quad skater to the point where she needed to more than double her technical content to win mathematically. Sasha goes for the maximum and the other skater is still conveniently lifted high enough for her to lose overall to 2 Quads. Sasha should have won or it should have come down to 0.XX points

Ok I know I am biased, but Anna is ATROCIOUSLY over scored in GOE. I know that people will say that Sasha doesn't deserve the PCS she gets, but some of the +4s and +5s Anna's elements get are ridiculous. She shouldn't be scoring more GOE than some one who is considered a jump specialist, especially not with her labored, hunched, toe-hammer-y jumps. If scored properly Anna should be a lot lower.

 

[Arigato]

She did! Last season and all she got for her troubles was people making fun of her efforts and losing by 20 points to skaters with similar content (2 quads).

You can go back and read the comments if you like. I tried defending her, but all I got was "Sasha's a jumper not a performer, she looks stupid trying to pretend."

Skaters who have "artistry" get so much leeway here, but if you're a technician you're second class. It's like people don't stop to think how extraordinarily difficult it is to do 5 quads it's like "And?! Is that all you got?"

Everyone will defend Jason Brown's (and I'm a fan of Jason) artistry to the death, but apparently you're not a 'true" skating fan of you appreciate and admire Sasha's- and other technical skaters - abilities.

Oh, great moosey one - take a look at your avatar. Do you really think Plushy was just a technician? I don't. Were he just that, I sure wouldn't watch his Carmen as often as I do.

 

[anonymoose_au]

Oh, great moosey one - take a look at your avatar. Do you really think Plushy was just a technician? I don't. Were he just that, I sure wouldn't watch his Carmen as often as I do.

Odd you should mention it! Now I always thought Plushy was very artistic, but I know the North American commentators didn't. "Pointless arm-waving" or "Nice jumps shame about the rest of it" were the go-to judgements if my YouTube viewing is any indication, culminating in the famous 2010 NBC depiction of Plushy as the figure skating robot who was only stopped by Evan Lysachek's superior artistry (I'm not even kidding, though I'm Aussie for some reason we had the NBC broadcast that Olympics, Sandra Bezic is hands down the worst commentator ever, thankfully we got Belinda back after that).

But on topic, I rather enjoyed Sasha's programs last season and Cruella this season. I wouldn't call them devoid of artistry, but then alas I'm not sure I know what artistry is considering my faves

 

[Trusova4Ever]

Glad to see someone else noticed.

Boyang Jin would skate with 4 quads and poor skating skills. PCS around 80. Patrick comes in with 2 quads and PCS of 97 or so. And win. Jin wasn't screaming bloody murder, he knew his skills sucked. That's when you heard him say, "I have to work on my artistic side." A little self-honesty would do Trusova a world of good. But what is her real goal? This:

You know, they say about you that your skating is not feminine? What does this mean?

Alexandra Trusova: I don’t know what they mean. The only thing I can say is that I try to perform the same jump content as men, the top men. Nathan has jumped 5 quads at Worlds now. I wanted to make the same content.

As far as I understand, in many technical things you are simply ahead of men. That is, men did not do what you do. Do I understand correctly?

Alexandra Trusova: Well, some didn’t, some did. Nathan Chen did, Yuzuru Hanyu did.

Are you talking about lutz now?

Alexandra Trusova: No, many do lutz. I mean, that they have already jumped 5 quads in a free program and I have not yet, I have done only 4 so far …

Alexandra Trusova: Figure skating is a sport, and for me personally, jumps and the entire technical component of the program are more important. Because there are shows, artistry is more important there, and in figure skating, of course, artistry and technique are needed, but this is still a sport.


You will never become great at something you don't even value.

I respectfully disagree she has discussed in multiple interviews that while she feels the technical side takes priority she is making an effort to improve her artistic side. I believe this interview may have been taken earlier in her career when she was much younger and focused more on jumps.

 

[KaoriFan]

Odd you should mention it! Now I always thought Plushy was very artistic, but I know the North American commentators didn't.

They were just trying to push a narrative. I'm sure in Russia the commentators must have pushed criticism against Plushenko's competition. Whether they believe what they are saying or not, that's what the audience wants to hear.

 

[Arigato]

Odd you should mention it! Now I always thought Plushy was very artistic, but I know the North American commentators didn't. "Pointless arm-waving" or "Nice jumps shame about the rest of it" were the go-to judgements if my YouTube viewing is any indication, culminating in the famous 2010 NBC depiction of Plushy as the figure skating robot who was only stopped by Evan Lysachek's superior artistry (I'm not even kidding, though I'm Aussie for some reason we had the NBC broadcast that Olympics, Sandra Bezic is hands down the worst commentator ever, thankfully we got Belinda back after that).

But on topic, I rather enjoyed Sasha's programs last season and Cruella this season. I wouldn't call them devoid of artistry, but then alas I'm not sure I know what artistry is considering my faves

There is nothing pointless about Plushy's arms and hands. Oh, no. Not Evan, again. That's twice tonight. Those two guys are quite different in style, to say the least. My country's commentators aren't exactly Belinda Noonan. Speaking of Belinda, I caught her version of the men's programs at Beijing and it was like watching a different Olympics. Super analysis. No snark. No propaganda. Back to Evan in the black/snake unitard designed by Vera Wang to cut off blood flow . . . where was I? In order to have superior artistry, you have to have some to begin with. That whole mess of an OG was debunked years ago and it turned out the judges liked only one thing about Evan - his spins. Evan is the one who called a guy a loser if he didn't do a quad in his program. So despite getting injured before the OG and not chancing a quad, I had little sympathy for him because he had an obnoxious attitude. Did I care Plushy went on the offensive yelling about USFS? Nope. He was right. Figure skating was in the toilet in my country compared to where it was in the 90's.

Ask yourself this - what would Trusova be skating like today were she with Plushy all this time? Honestly? I think Plushy is too artistic for her and she just wants to jump. He knows there are two sides of a coin to becoming a great skater, alas, I do not believe she cares. I know you like her, but surely in seeing Plushy's skating, and her skating, you can see a world of difference and why he achieved a type of rockstar status, so to speak.

 

[moonvine]

They were just trying to push a narrative. I'm sure in Russia the commentators must have pushed criticism against Plushenko's competition. Whether they believe what they are saying or not, that's what the audience wants to hear.

The only “narrative” I’ve ever heard an NBC commentator push is that the US has a chance of winning a medal in women’s or pairs, and they’ve backed off that. Dick Button didn’t like Plushys arm movements. I seriously doubt anyone was telling that man what to say ever.

 

[solani]

We are still discussing Trusova's outburst? I still think it's good that someone screamed at Eteri. When I think about it again, it actually speaks for their environment - you can only let lose, when you feel safe. So at least Trusova feels safe.

I would be interested in the actual TT Game plan before the FS.
Trusova was planned to do 4 quads and did 5, right?
Sherbakova was planned to do 2? Or 3? I read somewhere that Tutberitze asked her why she didn't go for the quad lutz, is this true?
And Valieva 2 and the triple axel.
It seems to me that Tutberitze wanted Sherbakova to win, what do you think?
Did Trusova expect Sherbakova to do only one quad? Was she especially angry at Tutberitze because of that?

 

[KaoriFan]

The only “narrative” I’ve ever heard an NBC commentator push is that the US has a chance of winning a medal in women’s or pairs, and they’ve backed off that. Dick Button didn’t like Plushys arm movements. I seriously doubt anyone was telling that man what to say ever.

Dick Button is awesome. Scott Hamilton is the one I don't like. He always pushed narrative. Usually false.