Patrick Chan | Page 526 | Golden Skate

Patrick Chan

since we have reached the 700 pages.. wow... did you know this thread is growing quite fast in the last few months? I know it's impossible LOL but what if we made it to 1000 ;) but of course... we would need to have a lot of news to discuss ;) and Patrick is quiet ... maybe Nebelhorn will bring new contributors to this thread as well...

I just cannot wait to see his costumes.... to me, Patrick is very handsome and well, I love seeing him in different costumes ;) they have changed so much over the years too.....


Here is a costume I have a love hate relationship with ;)

It includes everything Patrick no longer wears ;) sparkles, ruffles and mesh ;)

I wouldn't mind mesh back ;)

while i was looking for the above mentioned outfit... i came across this one.... wow... this is so not Patrick anymore... flowing shirt.... with sparkles...

it almost looks like something Tukt would wear..

I like his pants though ;) that's what we call a good fit ;)

Let's just say that the squealing in this video proves that I am not the only one swooning LOL
 
PS

I had to rewatch the version with the flowing shirt a few times.. :) and it brought back some of the conversation we were having about Patrick's musicality... this 2011-12 Elegie is a fine example of what I was saying... Patrick's musicality was always there.... it's not brand new or post-Sochi. You can see him live every moment of Elegie here... every piano note.... some of the movements he makes are just gliding on one foot, to match a long sustained note... (crowd goes crazy).... and that's exactly what emoting is... a simple note, a simple movement, and a powerful reception of that emotion by the public.

Gosh... even in 2008... as a 17 years old.... he is right on for every beat of this tango! In here, we can see what I meant when I said : he was just a young guy! Because, clearly, he understands the musical structure and meaning of this piece... he skates well to it from the feet up... The facial emotion is not yet there... and that's normal as he is a teenager who hasn't yet learned to open up yet... but the music flows through him already.

And this marks I guess almost ten years for me as a Patrick fan..... wow.... Patrick grew up into a handsome young man... and the handsome young man I was is now geriatrics material... LOL
 
Patrick's musicality has always been noticed and complimented on by the experts since at least his mid teen when he made the Senior scene. Many musicians thank their parents for making them take piano lessons as children because these lessons laid a foundation for their musical development and success even if they didn't stay with piano. In Patrick's case, evidently the music knowledge gained through the piano lessons is transferred and expressed in his skating, even if he's now hardly a decent pianist. :)

I think he also took a few ballet lessons as a kid. His parents, like many Chinese, exposed their child to different arts and, as they were athletes, to various sports as well. Figure skating is well chosen by Patrick to focus on as it encompass most of his aptitudes, interests and skills as well as what his build is best suited for. And we're lucky and grateful for his choice and for staying with it.
 
Violet Bliss said:
Patrick's musicality has always been noticed and complimented on by the experts since at least his mid teen when he made the Senior scene. Many musicians thank their parents for making them take piano lessons as children because these lessons laid a foundation for their musical development and success even if they didn't stay with piano. In Patrick's case, evidently the music knowledge gained through the piano lessons is transferred and expressed in his skating, even if he's now hardly a decent pianist. :)

I think he also took a few ballet lessons as a kid. His parents, like many Chinese, exposed their child to different arts and, as they were athletes, to various sports as well. Figure skating is well chosen by Patrick to focus on as it encompass most of his aptitudes, interests and skills as well as what his build is best suited for. And we're lucky and grateful for his choice and for staying with it.
Click to expand...

yes... if Patrick took lessons with me, he'd have a hard time... the little bit of piano playing he did share with his fan is... erm... very different from his skating :) but that is something I have been mentioning as well before : to be a great artist, one needs the means to do so... and that is technique... Patrick's technique at the piano is not advanced and his playing is rudimentary ... BUT when we see what he can do TO music on the ice, where he is a master of technique, we know that his heart and soul are full of music, passion and humility. He has been so open even when he was 19-20... and he is opening up more and more. If he were a rock star, he would have millions and millions of fans :) People love artists who open up and genuinely express who they are through their chosen medium. I think that's also why I have loved Patrick from the get go... well... almost ;) I say it all the time but... i wasn't happy with Patrick when he beat Jeff at Nationals... but then, Jeff won worlds, and I was completely fine with it :) I credited Patrick for firing Jeff up and loved Patrick since that moment ;)
 
in about one week from now... Patrick will skate at Nebelhorn!!!! OMG!!!!!!!!!

I need to stock up on the alky and the tissues
 
4everchan said:
since we have reached the 700 pages.. wow... did you know this thread is growing quite fast in the last few months? I know it's impossible LOL but I what if we made it to 1000 but of course... we would need to have a lot of news to discuss and Patrick is quiet ... maybe Nebelhorn will bring new contributors to this thread as well...

I just cannot wait to see his costumes.... to me, Patrick is very handsome and well, I love seeing him in different costumes they have changed so much over the years too.....
Click to expand...
We got to page 601 on April 12th (I looked it up), and we got to page 701 on September 18th. That’s 100 pages in about 4 months. At that rate we’ll be over 1,000 by next September (12 months). :) I hope Patrick’s costumes have plenty of color on the shirt. My wishes are red/orange/dusty brown for the SP, and dark blue (not too close to black) for the LP.

4everchan said:
PS

I had to rewatch the version with the flowing shirt a few times... and it brought back some of the conversation we were having about Patrick's musicality... this 2011-12 Elegie is a fine example of what I was saying... Patrick's musicality was always there.... it's not brand new or post-Sochi. You can see him live every moment of Elegie here... every piano note.... some of the movements he makes are just gliding on one foot, to match a long sustained note... (crowd goes crazy).... and that's exactly what emoting is... a simple note, a simple movement, and a powerful reception of that emotion by the public.

Gosh... even in 2008... as a 17 years old.... he is right on for every beat of this tango! In here, we can see what I meant when I said : he was just a young guy! Because, clearly, he understands the musical structure and meaning of this piece... he skates well to it from the feet up... The facial emotion is not yet there... and that's normal as he is a teenager who hasn't yet learned to open up yet... but the music flows through him already.

And this marks I guess almost ten years for me as a Patrick fan..... wow.... Patrick grew up into a handsome young man... and the handsome young man I was is now geriatrics material... LOL
Click to expand...
I :love: your definition of emoting as when simple things are done in a way that can be received powerfully by the audience. And then you mentioned the Exilados Patrick did at 17. I loved it then and I love it now. So now I’m wondering, do you see a difference in Patrick’s delivery of Esqualo six years later? Granted, they are different pieces, but both are tangos. I don’t necessarily watch Patrick’s face when he’s skating because I’m watching his entire body while he skates. In what ways has his musical expression evolved in those six years? He's never been hugely into facial expressions during competitions. And, a related question, can the live audience notice the facial expressions? It seems to me that facial expressions are picked up only by TV cameras. The live audience, OTOH, would notice instead the full body movement that Patrick has become so adept at. Right? It is fascinating to have two tangos from Patrick to compare, skated six years apart. The movements in Esqualo seem sharper, but like you said, he did hit every note in Exilados. Esqualo seems “deeper” and more expressive somehow, but I can’t explain why. A tale of two tangos. Both programs have a very special place in my heart! :yes:

4everchan said:
yes... if Patrick took lessons with me, he'd have a hard time... the little bit of piano playing he did share with his fan is... erm... very different from his skating. But that is something I have been mentioning as well before : to be a great artist, one needs the means to do so... and that is technique... Patrick's technique at the piano is not advanced and his playing is rudimentary ... BUT when we see what he can do TO music on the ice, where he is a master of technique, we know that his heart and soul are full of music, passion and humility. He has been so open even when he was 19-20... and he is opening up more and more. If he were a rock star, he would have millions and millions of fans. People love artists who open up and genuinely express who they are through their chosen medium. I think that's also why I have loved Patrick from the get go... well... almost. I say it all the time but... i wasn't happy with Patrick when he beat Jeff at Nationals... but then, Jeff won worlds, and I was completely fine with it. I credited Patrick for firing Jeff up and loved Patrick since that moment.
Click to expand...
Technique as a means to acquire artistry!!! :yes2: I’m learning, mostly by hanging out on GS, that contrary to popular belief, artistry and technical expertise are NOT mutually exclusive categories. Rather, good technique frees you up to be more artistically expressive. So, all artists have good technique as their foundation. Therefore, the “technical skater” vs “artistic skater” is a false dichotomy. Unfortunately, usually “technical” is used as shorthand for “good at executing quality jumps regularly, especially quads, 3As, and 3-3s.” In that narrow sense, the dichotomy does exist and there is a big divide between various skaters. So it can be hard for people, myself included, to realize how “technical” good-quality step sequences, good-quality spins, and good-quality transitions actually are. That’s why step sequences and spins are part of TES. Patrick once said something like, “Skating is what leads you to your jump.” Skating skills aren’t simply there as part of artistry; they’re there because they lead to everything worthwhile in the program. Patrick uses his solid technique on the ice to show us the musical nuances. His musical sensitivity, plus his technique on the ice, plus his maturity of expression gained through experience makes for a truly lovely combination!!! :biggrin: Okay, I’ll get off my soap box now. :laugh:
 
skatingfan4ever said:
We got to page 601 on April 12th (I looked it up), and we got to page 701 on September 18th. That’s 100 pages in about 4 months. At that rate we’ll be over 1,000 by next September (12 months). :) I hope Patrick’s costumes have plenty of color on the shirt. My wishes are red/orange/dusty brown for the SP, and dark blue (not too close to black) for the LP.


I :love: your definition of emoting as when simple things are done in a way that can be received powerfully by the audience. And then you mentioned the Exilados Patrick did at 17. I loved it then and I love it now. So now I’m wondering, do you see a difference in Patrick’s delivery of Esqualo six years later? Granted, they are different pieces, but both are tangos. I don’t necessarily watch Patrick’s face when he’s skating because I’m watching his entire body while he skates. In what ways has his musical expression evolved in those six years? He's never been hugely into facial expressions during competitions. And, a related question, can the live audience notice the facial expressions? It seems to me that facial expressions are picked up only by TV cameras. The live audience, OTOH, would notice instead the full body movement that Patrick has become so adept at. Right? It is fascinating to have two tangos from Patrick to compare, skated six years apart. The movements in Esqualo seem sharper, but like you said, he did hit every note in Exilados. Esqualo seems “deeper” and more expressive somehow, but I can’t explain why. A tale of two tangos. Both programs have a very special place in my heart! :yes:


Technique as a means to acquire artistry!!! :yes2: I’m learning, mostly by hanging out on GS, that contrary to popular belief, artistry and technical expertise are NOT mutually exclusive categories. Rather good technique frees you up to be more artistically expressive. So, all artists have good technique as their foundation. Therefore, the “technical skater” vs “artistic skater” is a bit of a false dichotomy. Unfortunately, usually “technical” is used as shorthand for “good at executing quality jumps regularly, especially quads, 3As, and 3-3s.” In that narrow sense, the dichotomy does exist and there is a big divide between various skaters. So it can be hard for people, myself included, to realize how “technical” good-quality step sequences, good-quality spins, and good-quality transitions actually are. That’s why step sequences and spins are part of TES. Patrick once said something like, “Skating is what leads you to your jump.” Skating skills aren’t simply there as part of artistry; they’re there because they lead to everything worthwhile in the program. Patrick uses his solid technique on the ice to show us the musical nuances. His musical sensitivity, plus his technique on the ice, plus his maturity of expression gained through experience makes for a truly lovely combination!!! :biggrin: Okay, I’ll get off my soap box now. :laugh:
Click to expand...

two nice paragraphs i will try to reply to ;)

1) tango de los exilados vs esqualo

Yes, both pieces are very different musically but also they are in their respective context : one is a program that I feel was created to challenge young Patrick in using his skills to the maximum, the other is a show program.... so I am not sure we can really compare the evolution so much, it would have been possible with an esqualo as a competitive program perhaps... To me, the comparison though comes from looking even at just last year and this year's programs.... Patrick seems to have gone another gear in skating à la Patrick Chan ;) The approach is modern, free, and in complete symbiosis with music. Nothing is superfluous.... simplicity.... Patrick was described as the perfect skater for the IJS COP... however, in these recent years, we haven't seen him backload or tano his way up.. or simply adding awkward transitions into jumps... he skates... and he skates with another ideal... it's not about the 10% bonus or the GOE... it's about sublime purity... and that is to me, his response to what figure skating is and should be. Beautiful, smooth and pure skating.

2) you are correct : it's hard to see facial expressions from the audience when live... but of course, perhaps the judges have a better view... but there is, in big events, a large screen that is shown... so you get to see the skater live.. and you get the facial expression... you also get crossed-eyes for trying to look at both at the same time LOL.

However, when I went to see Patrick, I tried to focus only on him, not the big screen... because of course, the big screen is what one gets at home.

I loved seeing him on the ice because he just glides in all directions... that you cannot see on tv much as the cameras just follow him...

regarding artistry and technique... i can tell you from a musician point of view.. but i feel it's the same thing with every skill based sport ...

some people are more musical or artistic than others naturally... so with kids.. often we will say... Oh!! so musically talented... etc.. and some others get the dexterity and velocity quite easily and we will say " this kid has great technique or technical potential"..

and I am sure it is the same with young athletes... some skaters nail jumps easier than others at a young age... etc...

but my point is the following : at an elite level, without proper technique, there won't be art... even for the ones musically gifted... simply because to get to an excellent artistic performance, everything needs to be mastered, especially big tricks ;) you cannot play schumann or brahms... without the proper preparation... then... some musicians will be able to transcend the "elements" and bring the public with them on a musical and artistic journey...

i feel it's similar in figure skating... some athletes may be good enough to land iffy jumps but with a guy like Patrick, there is no break from when he skates, spins or jumps... it's all within his technical grasp... his edges.. his blade work... and that's why, even if perhaps he may not be at ease with all the quads like some of the other skaters, his jumps are till beautiful as they come from that technical mastery.

For instance, a singer may have high notes but her connection (passagio) to lower notes is rough... and when she sings, you hear how uneven her performance is.
Patrick is often overlooked when it comes to spins... why? because he doesn't do the crazy positions.... but his spins are the most elegant, centered, rotated with good and even speed spins we can see out there... and they come right from the program, without bumps.. they are integrated smoothly....
younger skaters who are still developing will often "telegraph" a spin... as they need to set it up... then they stop... and go back to skating at the end of it...
so all these examples to me, show how an artistic performance needs to be flawlessly flowing from beginning to end, without any interruption in its continuity... in its emotional charge... and that's where I feel Patrick shines brightly... since he masters his sport in all its aspects, he is able to build an experience that will connect from the beginning till the end...

so without, technique, there are interruptions and thus, art is compromised... that would be a very simple way to summarize it...
without technique, there is a lack of precision in edges/posture/ control etc.. and again, art is compromised...

without technique, there are no means to achieve true artistic goals...

for instance and back to a musician perspective : when I work on a piece of music, I imagine how I want it to sound... well.. if I hear it very fast in my head and my fingers aren't able to follow, then technique isn't mastered enough to provide the artistic vision I have...

that's why choreographers talk about Patrick like the dream skater to create for... as they know that he can do it all... so their vision can be recreated on the ice without worries about the difficulty of the choreography... ;)
 
PS I forgot to address the 1000 post prediction you made HEHE :)

yeah i noticed that this year has been quite good with the traffic and posting here...

however, I am thinking that after the games, it will certainly go down as we won't have much news to share... except perhaps Stars on ice.. and stuff like that... it will be quite hard to see Patrick go.. and this thread will slow down and it's of course normal ;)

so what I meant is : can we all get to 1000 or close to before the Olympics? hahahahaha i know... crazy... and of course, i don't mean that we need change our style here... i love reading this thread for its elaborate and analytical posts... and the encouragements and support as well. I don't mean for us to "create" superfluous " posts just to get to 1000 :) Patrick isn't really fond of superfluous things :) as his skating is showing us...

so yes to voluptuous posts
no to superfluous posts

LOL

:laugh2:
 
In Tango de Los Exilados, Patrick shows off his superb skating skills and musicality to the Tango music. In Esqualo he shows off Tango dancing with his superb skating skills and musicality.

This difference is reflective of his growth as a skater as well as the evolution of an artist. Before there is art, there are skills and techniques. Through practice, skills and techniques become incorporated into the nature/subconscious of the person. We don't think about how to move the limbs and balance the body when we walk, or about the all the necessary maneuvers of the car's mechanics as we drive so that we can, as we should, focus on the important happening of the moment, such as road conditions and any event with immediate impact that we need to react to.

An artist can only be great after the basic skills are acquired and have become innate not needing conscious attention. A masterpiece is created with feelings, beyond skills and techniques.

On the day of competition, it's not time to compete. All preparation has been done. It's time to trust the training, the techniques, and to let it rip. It's time to focus on the music,or the sound of his blade, whatever it takes to stay in the moment, to get in the zone. It's time to flow with the feelings and the music.

Enjoy the journey and enjoy the performances, Patrick. We are doing the same along with you.
 
4everchan - I appreciate your detailed response to my earlier post. First, I want to say that the 1,000-page thing was just said for fun. It's always nice to see more Patrick love, but it doesn't matter how many pages we get to. Like Patrick, we don't do fluff (swooning does not count as fluff ;)). Even though we are over 700 pages, still this thread is more about quality than quantity. In that way, we follow Patrick's lead. :) I'm not sure if we can get to 1,000 by the Olympics, but I'm not going anywhere (although my real life needs attention too, so I'll probaby be scaling back a little). I like the "say yes to voluptuous posts, say no to superfluous posts." :laugh:

Exilados vs. Esqualo - Yes, they were created and skated in different contexts, and by different choreographers. In Esqualo, he had more freedom because it was an Ex, but Exilados shows us more of his skills from a technical standpoint (it has 2 StSeq and 3 spins). Patrick has indeed gone the route of simplicity. People often state this approach as "less is more" but that doesn't sound right when describing Patrick. His "less" now never feels like less; rather, it feels refined. Lori gave him so much to do within the choreography because he could do it, and when he went to Jeff for Elegie, Jeff helped him work on how to pause meaningfully and effectively. David has continued that process, and Patrick's pauses are some of my favorite things to watch for in his programs now. He has learned how to pause without making it seem forced or because of the difficulty of an element. "Modern. free, complete symbiosis with music, simplicity." :love: this description!

Good point about Patrick starting out being talked of as the ideal example of COP, but he does none of the gimmicks that the system rewards. Even when he was at the top, it was never about doing things just to get points. And now with how some skaters have constructed their programs recently, Patrick once again stands out for his choices. I LOVE and appreciate his spins SO MUCH because they don't look strained!!! They get good levels but they still look BEAUTIFUL in the process!!! His focus is on pure skating, and I so admire him for that.

Technique and Artistry - Thanks for the info about live competitions. I know on fancams you can never see the facial expression but you can see the body movement and ice coverage. You explained very well about artistry and technique and gave good examples. :2thumbs: Favorite excerpt in this part: "an artistic performance needs to be flawlessly flowing from beginning to end, without any interruption in its continuity... in its emotional charge... and that's where I feel Patrick shines brightly... since he masters his sport in all its aspects, he is able to build an experience that will connect from the beginning till the end... so without, technique, there are interruptions and thus, art is compromised... that would be a very simple way to summarize it... without technique, there is a lack of precision in edges/posture/ control etc.. and again, art is compromised... without technique, there are no means to achieve true artistic goals..." And as far as Patrick being a dream to create for - how wonderful that must feel for any choreographer who gets to work with him! I can only imagine! :) Thanks for sharing your thoughts like this. I agree with everything, but you said it better than I could have. :yes:

ETA: Thanks for your thoughts as well, VB!!! :hap10: I love this thread!!!
 
I LOVE the GS interview from HPC posted today!!! He is such a proud Canadian and he really is excited about going for #10. Nationals is "where it all started" and Patrick lights up when he talks about it. He explains again why he chose DITW and his explanation is so wise. DITW is this profound explanation and then for Hallelujah he says "we picked it because it was written by a Canadian." :laugh: He's looking forward to going into Korea being proud of being Canadian (hopefully that will help him be more relaxed). He talks about how well David knows him now, so he brought this music to Patrick knowing these pieces would come from within him and that he was made to skate these pieces. :yes: He said his choreography this season "brings out all the nuances in the music." The last question Ted asked is how he's feeling about the 4S in the SP. Patrick said he feels better about that than adding a 4F to the LP. For the way he wants to skate at the Olympics, he doesn't want to compromise anything or sacrifice anything for a more difficult quad. He says he wouldn't help the programs or do them justice by adding another quad. It would sacrifice a lot for the type of skater that he is. :agree:

I apologize for the woeful inadequacies of this summary. I loved Patrick's demeanor and how articulate he was. He has such wonderful perspective and a sense of peace about him now. All that's left to say is: GO PATRICK!!!!!! :cheer2::biggrin::hap10:
 
yyyskate said:
Guys, those are tears of joy after I watched that interview. One of the best interview from Patrick!
Click to expand...
That's awesome! I agree with you! I want to take parts of that interview and put them where I can see them often for my own inspiration. I am so grateful that Patrick is where he is right now and can speak in this calm manner. It is truly inspirational. :ghug: :love:
 
so as skatingfan4ever just mentioned :

Patrick said in the interview that David picked the music for both pieces... but then... does that mean David did choreo for the LP as well? Didn't we read something about Jeff doing the LP? Oh and... well... then... if indeed Jeff did do the choreo for Hallelujah, how often does that happen that a choreo picks music for a skater... who gets it choreographed by someone else?

I sort of read in between the lines that David is a very dear friend of Patrick and that would make sense in the way that he could suggest music to him, independently of being the one doing the choreo for him or not...

In any case, I cannot wait to see how the programs will evolve and one thing I hope is that Patrick understands that he doesn't carry the responsibility of Canadian Olympic success on his shoulders.... we are carrying him to the Olympics because we are proud of him ... there is nothing to prove really. Just enjoy the moment Patrick! Your fans love you !
 
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