2018 Olympic Figure Skating Short Dance

[Tigerlily87]

That should have been:
1. V/M, 2. S/S, 3. P/C, 4. C/L, 5. H/D, 6. W/P, 7. B/S, 8. C/B, 9. G/P, 10. C/B

I still think Gabby should have been dinged a deduction for that wardrobe malfunction but I'm so impressed they still skated well with that obvious and embarrassing distraction!

It would be absolutely wild if the Italians absolutely knocked out Life is Beautiful and beat all three American teams to the bronze!

A major upset has yet to happen in these games. There's usually one per games (e.g. Evan over Plushy in 2010, Shizuka in 2006, the pairs scandal in 2002, and in Sochi with I/K taking bronze over the others plus Adelina). Will the shocker come in the dance (as long as V/M and P/C go 1-2 in either order I'm happy)??

The Shibsibs were undermarked, but not better than P/C

 

[rain]

I advise you to rewatch it and not focusing on the incident at all and you'll see why they got such a high score. Read protocols while you're at it, you'll see where they lost points and the Pst level, that might make a bit of sense.

Man, P/C really gave an opportunity to people here, that's disappointing. Everyone talking about how "the fix is in" but no one can read properly the sheet score, asking yourself about Tessa's odd second chochtaw, or why the Skate Canada president is judging either. It will be all on that malfunction, because showing your breast on TV is not enough of a nightmare, fanwars must go on :sad21:

I don't care in the slightest about the costume malfunction (what, are people 12? The pearl-clutching is a bit much), except that it clearly distracted P/C and marred their presentation of the program. No, it doesn't warrant a costume deduction, nothing fell on the ice and they kept going. But it did detract from the overall program in that it made them tentative.

However, can you read the score sheet properly? Judges gave P/C +3s for those obviously, visibly to the naked eye without slow-mo flawed twizzles and the lift where once again, there was a visible struggle. In no universe is that OK. If that ends up being the difference for the gold medal, that's a big problem and a huge knock to the sport's credibility. I for one would like to continue seeing it be part of the Olympics, not discredited by shoddy manipulation.

Just dismissing this as "oh, fanwars" yawn is a disservice to the sport.

 

[jenaj]

Finally got to see all of the top 7 (fell asleep through part of it last night--but woke up for V and M and P and C). I feel bad for the French couple, but the costume problem really hurt their performance. I think the judges were wrong to hold them up for something that, in the end, was their fault. I actually think performance-wise, they should be behind the Shibs and Hubbell/Donohue. I'll admit I am more of a casual ice dance fan than a student of the sport. Having said that, I preferred the Shibutanis to the rest. I don't care about the secret sexiness element that seems to exist in ice dance. I just preferred their precision and their overall performance.

 

[rain]

Their twizzles were still at the difficulty level but slightly off. I wouldn’t call the technical errors giant. They skated faster as well than v/m

They did not skate faster than V/M. No matter how much you perpetuate this myth in multiple posts here it won't make it true, lol. And yes, at this level, the twizzle mistake was big. It correctly still got a level 4, but should never, never have been given a +3 — I notice you still don't address that nonsense.

 

[ChanClan]

They did not skate faster than V/M. No matter how much you perpetuate this myth in multiple posts here it won't make it true, lol. And yes, at this level, the twizzle mistake was big. It correctly still got a level 4, but should never, never have been given a +3 — I notice you still don't address that nonsense.

Also... skating faster doesn't necessarily mean it was better

 

[Tigerlily87]

They did not skate faster than V/M. No matter how much you perpetuate this myth in multiple posts here it won't make it true, lol. And yes, at this level, the twizzle mistake was big. It correctly still got a level 4, but should never, never have been given a +3 — I notice you still don't address that nonsense.

People who were there watching in the arena have said different about the skating speed.

Honestly I prefer V/M overall. But I think that fans are giving a hard ride over this

 

[Anyasnake]

I don't care in the slightest about the costume malfunction (what, are people 12? The pearl-clutching is a bit much), except that it clearly distracted P/C and marred their presentation of the program. No, it doesn't warrant a costume deduction, nothing fell on the ice and they kept going. But it did detract from the overall program in that it made them tentative.

However, can you read the score sheet properly? Judges gave P/C +3s for those obviously, visibly to the naked eye without slow-mo flawed twizzles and the lift where once again, there was a visible struggle. In no universe is that OK. If that ends up being the difference for the gold medal, that's a big problem and a huge knock to the sport's credibility. I for one would like to continue seeing it be part of the Olympics, not discredited by shoddy manipulation.

Just dismissing this as "oh, fanwars" yawn is a disservice to the sport.

Yes the twizzles were flawed. It was clearly not the disaster of the year though. I wouldn't have put a +3 for sure. I don't know how judges do that since they scored flawed twizzles for a lot of teams with +3 all year, you'd have to ask.

I don't do the "oh fanwars" yawn, I'm saying that this will be an opportunity or some to discredite them. Can't argue with that. They don't see that the Rumba pattern was significantly the best. The No-touch was excellent. The Pst has one wobble that could not affect GOEs but a level, that they did not get, rightfully so. Also, PCS : Higher in Skating Skills, composition and Transitions - because mastery of the blade (as I like to quote Marie-France), an excellent choregraphed SD (CO and TR often goes together). However quite lower in Performance and Interpretation, as it should be.

 

[ChanClan]

I think what I'm most annoyed about is the fact that 6 judges gave PC +3 GOE on their lift when there was clearly a loss of balance. Now I am not a fan of that lift in general but when they execute it well, I understand the good GOE but this is ridiculous.

 

[AliAle]

That's the problem they are not superior. I prefer the FD style wise of PC but artistically and technically if both skate reasonably to their best V and M deserve it. But the SD to be fair V and M should have won and should have won by more. Now if V and M don't skate as well or have problems will the judges hold them up - doubt it. Sorry this smells bad. I appreciate there is a huge division on who we like but if we could look at the skating objectively which is hard because we have our biases. I admit i have mine but I can say that I do prefer Moonlight over Moulin Roughe as a music/program but techinically and choreographically etc. I can see why the Canadians deserve it - or a tie eventechnically since V and M usually make more bobbles but are better in other areas but pc wise V and M should be ahead by more. or at least in the FS win the SS and at best PC and VM tie in the rest.

I think we should leave the technical aspects to the experts. As an avid but unprofessional viewer, I find V/M very confident in movement (for example, their step sequence is super fast, aggressive and precise), but they do raise a lot of ice and I'm not sure what that means in terms of skating technique and edge quality. The French are called butter smooth for several reasons, and one of them is how light of a touch they have on the ice.
Second, let's count the errors: they had an out of sync entry on the second twizzle set, but they exited them in sync, so that's not a huge deal. They were scarily close during the execution, but that's typically a plus in terms of GOE. Also, no question in terms of whether they were L4 or not. The other one was a balance problem during the lift but Gaby masked it super well with her arm movement, so I can see why the majority of judges didn't see it.

In regards to the PCS, I'm not sure what people wanted to see. You can't ding them on SS, TR or CO since they didn't change their program. They weren't off timing wise either, so that only leaves Performance and part of the Interpretation mark, where they were lower than V/M, but according to some people not enough, so what exactly should we see, low 9s, high 8s? When does that ever happen in skating for a top couple or individual skater?

Also... skating faster doesn't necessarily mean it was better

Might not be better (though the ability to generate speed through edge-work is typically a good plus for SS), but it sure is impressive to view. And if you think that won't impact the PCS marks... I'm not sure what to say.

 

[rain]

People who were there watching in the arena have said different about the skating speed.

Honestly I prefer V/M overall. But I think that fans are giving a hard ride over this

I take anonymous, second-hand accounts from "fans" in the arena with as much of a grain of salt as I would anyone posting on this board and asserting an opinion such as this. Seems like an attempt to justify an unjustifiable result.

Even if I wholeheartedly accept this assertion as gospel, it still doesn't justify the score. Who cares about the quality of the execution of the elements as long as you skate minutely faster than your nearest competitor? That's called speed skating, not ice dance. Who cares that your performance was less than totally committed due to a technical distraction (for which you are ultimately responsible according to the rules of the sport), as long as you're fast? No, just no.

 

[Tigerlily87]

I take anonymous, second-hand accounts from "fans" in the arena with as much of a grain of salt as I would anyone posting on this board and asserting an opinion such as this. Seems like an attempt to justify an unjustifiable result.

Even if I wholeheartedly accept this assertion as gospel, it still doesn't justify the score. Who cares about the quality of the execution of the elements as long as you skate minutely faster than your nearest competitor? That's called speed skating, not ice dance. Who cares that your performance was less than totally committed due to a technical distraction (for which you are ultimately responsible according to the rules of the sport), as long as you're fast? No, just no.

Read the two to three posts above, they give an excellent explanation

 

[rain]

Yes the twizzles were flawed. It was clearly not the disaster of the year though. I wouldn't have put a +3 for sure. I don't know how judges do that since they scored flawed twizzles for a lot of teams with +3 all year, you'd have to ask.

I don't do the "oh fanwars" yawn, I'm saying that this will be an opportunity or some to discredite them. Can't argue with that. They don't see that the Rumba pattern was significantly the best. The No-touch was excellent. The Pst has one wobble that could not affect GOEs but a level, that they did not get, rightfully so. Also, PCS : Higher in Skating Skills, composition and Transitions - because mastery of the blade (as I like to quote Marie-France), an excellent choregraphed SD (CO and TR often goes together). However quite lower in Performance and Interpretation, as it should be.

Again, no, no, no. This is total misapplication of GOEs. You would give them a +3? Are you kidding? Plus three is for exceptional execution — not even good execution or adequate, unflawed execution. Giving them a +3 is saying they could not have performed them better. Clearly untrue.

I don't think this discredits the skaters, but it does discredit the judges and the ISU. That's a big problem.

I won't even get into the complete nonsense about P/C being given better skating skills scores than V/M. I doubt either of us would change our minds about it.

 

[Dibs]

If the situations were reversed, and Tessa were the one experiencing the wardrobe malfunction, would such a large group be irate over the lack of a deduction for it? No one was this worked up over the wardrobe malfunction Yura Min experienced in the team event. On that note, I love V/M and P/C both! It's just food for thought.

 

[Anyasnake]

Again, no, no, no. This is total misapplication of GOEs. You would give them a +3? Are you kidding? Plus three is for exceptional execution — not even good execution or adequate, unflawed execution. Giving them a +3 is saying they could not have performed them better. Clearly untrue.

I don't think this discredits the skaters, but it does discredit the judges and the ISU. That's a big problem.

I won't even get into the complete nonsense about P/C being given better skating skills scores than V/M. I doubt either of us would change our minds about it.

No I said I wouldn't of course ! I just don't get how several teams got +3 for flawed twizzles all year and it also often happens.

Of course the Skating Skills. Mastery and glide of the blade. I don't know if it would been the same with let's say, the Finnstep ? But Having P/C doing the Rumba... and those chochtaw. They got about 0.4 more than anyone else on GOE or the pattern.

 

[Tigerlily87]

If the situations were reversed, and Tessa were the one experiencing the wardrobe malfunction, would such a large group be irate over the lack of a deduction for it? No one was this worked up over the wardrobe malfunction Yura Min experienced in the team event. On that note, I love V/M and P/C both! It's just food for thought.

Last night I thought that there should’ve been a deduction for their costume. However, in hindsight it is the fault of the skater and nothing ffelt on theice so I agree with the lack of deduction

 

[Skater Boy]

Finally got to see all of the top 7 (fell asleep through part of it last night--but woke up for V and M and P and C). I feel bad for the French couple, but the costume problem really hurt their performance. I think the judges were wrong to hold them up for something that, in the end, was their fault. I actually think performance-wise, they should be behind the Shibs and Hubbell/Donohue. I'll admit I am more of a casual ice dance fan than a student of the sport. Having said that, I preferred the Shibutanis to the rest. I don't care about the secret sexiness element that seems to exist in ice dance. I just preferred their precision and their overall performance.

The problem is by holding up the French and knowing what we know about preferences in the free dance now the French had been assured of OGM basically.

 

[Skater Boy]

If the situations were reversed, and Tessa were the one experiencing the wardrobe malfunction, would such a large group be irate over the lack of a deduction for it? No one was this worked up over the wardrobe malfunction Yura Min experienced in the team event. On that note, I love V/M and P/C both! It's just food for thought.

Yes, there would be an equal uproar because there are equal pc fans here. But the concern is the judges really have been extremely generous with PC freedance or stingy on VM. And the issue is with the lift and twizzle and pcs they were too high for pc. But we knew the French had the judges momentum right or wrong now this which may have made things interesting well really it seems no matter what Tessa and Scott do PC will get gold. There is one thing that no one addresses - Gabby - she is noticeably weaker and the scores should reflect that but they don't. You don't need to be a skating judge to see it But oh well this is why some people want ice dance out of the olympics.

 

[rain]

No I said I wouldn't of course ! I just don't get how several teams got +3 for flawed twizzles all year and it also often happens.

Phew! at least we can agree here. Sorry I misread your original post!

I had a rant in a thread in The Edge about how the judges (not just in ice dance) are totally misapplying the GOEs as they are now. I despair of what will happen when they move to a five point spread. If they can't properly judge +3 to -3, it's only going to get worse with more categories.

But that's off topic.

 

[kevinVchicago]

Sorry my English is not very good. I mean the approach to MR is a bit unusual like Carmen the Canadians really sexualize it and make it their own.

Got it. I agree. By the same token, I would say that P/C's approach to Moonlight Sonata is a bit unusual and very much their own.

 

[ManyCairns]

Well, for me, in the cold light of day, and re-watching P/C, other than the twizzle being a little affected, I thought they gave a great, strong, performance overall, I really did. Should be behind V/M, as it is, but I don't find the small margin completely outrageous.

I AM, however, outraged over Shibs. I have liked their programs more and more as the season has gone on, and thought they really sold it last night. Seems like the level call was a little nitpicky, especially if Ben A. is right and V/M kind of got the benefit of the doubt in at least one spot re: Tessa's edge, but I'm far from an expert. Worried the Shibs are getting tanked but at least the judges were rewarding them and it was more of a tech caller situation.

Can't feel H/D are worthy of third. They seem lovely people and I know they have ardent fans, but to me they have one note, selling sex appeal, and for me they're not that stunning at even that one note. Upthread someone called Hubbell's movement ungainly, and honestly, her movement does seem that way to me also. Their dancing is very heavy to me.

On to the free dance, which will be a nailbiter. As always always always it seems, Tessa and Scott have crafted a good program (to many, a great one!) as the season has progressed. I found Moulin Rouge unwatchable all season long, until the Team Event here at PyeongChang, and as usual The Great Ones won me over to the program. It's far from my favorite of theirs, but the first section, while still a little overdone to me in EMOTING (I'm looking at you here, Scott, lol) it is a very good program now with more light and shade and less bombast.