Women's FS - 2022 Olympics: Thoughts?

[moonvine]

Letting her compete would be not an issue if people managed to stay civil and stick to "not guilty until proven otherwise".

That’s only for US criminal courts.

 

[moonvine]

thought it was a sh*tshow from start to finish tbh

the entire sport needs a MASSIVE overhaul...

It seems to be the women with the problem. I’ve never seen any such from the other disciplines.

 

[moonvine]

On a more shallow note, I was definitely struck by how negative Johnny was being towards the Russians. I don't watch that much NBC, but hasn't he spent the last couple of seasons praising Eteri and her girls to the skies? He was critical of Trusova's lack of artistry, didn't gush about Anna, and pointed out that Eteri started criticizing Kamila as soon as she left the ice.

It isn’t just the past couple of seasons and Eteri. Johnny has been a Russophile..is that the correct term? Anyway, lover of all things Russian since he was competing. It was shocking to hear him say anything negative about Russia or Russians because he just never ever does thet.

 

[moonvine]

What I don't get is how can one not be sympathetic with Trusova. For goodness sake! The girl did 5 QUADS IN LADIES at the Olympics Final! One quad is already incredible, but FIVE?!! Pity about the 3A but that was designed for combo!! It is a monumental and historic achievement however she did it. It is still a sporting event at end of the day. no? Instead, now we are blaming her for daring to show she is upset rather than be celebrating on what she did.

How can one even equate this achievement purely in terms of rotation points differences under the already outdated COP system makes no sense, when the COP was never designed to reward ladies for quads in the first place? I think she had been rewarded the quads bonus in PCS that you often see given to the men's quadsful but half-empty programs, so I can understand her PCS boost in that respect.

COP should have room to allow people to pick a strategy to maximize their strength. One should be allowed to make these choices even when it may suffer in other areas. Just like when Carolina Kostner can choose to compete through PCS (when PCS made sense before the Russian hostage takeover since 2013-2014), you'd likely to see her picking slower but interesting pacing rhythmic music with likely lower technical content so she can focus on fully delivering the choreographic performances and going clean for extra PCS boost. Yuzu, Nathan, Plushenko's quadsful programs have all suffered when they choose to focus on jumps, so it is quite natural part of the sport. There shouldn't be a template formula for success if the judges reward things properly.

In any case, something is seriously screwed up with COP in practice, particularly the tendency for judges to prejudge and subconsciously earmark skaters for pre-ranking and benchmarking their scoring potential based on inflated scoring events put up by powerfeds. We have seen a number of great ladies given their career-best today going relatively clean but not nearly given an equal amount of inflation or clean bonus had they been skating for a power federation like Russia or the US. Yet skaters who had been pre-anointed as potential podium skaters can go splatt and still get their PCS cushion however they skate. There are many unfair aspects to this sport, but this has to be the most unfair of all. No matter what the ladies did on the day, going clean or going splatt, under the current judging system, they rarely make big differences in the scoring range other than 1 or 2 placement differences despite their performance saying otherwise on the day. And of course you have the judging selection and anonymity issue, but enough of that.

First of all - I don’t care if she did 10,000 quads. To me it is an empty, boring, ugly program. This is figure skating, it’s not skate jumping. It’s bad enough there’s no cap on TES but there is on PCS.

She did have a choice to do only jumps and that’s the choice she took. It didn’t work out for her to win the gold. It’s not like she came in 17th place. If she had I would be yes, definitely something wrong. She got a silver medal.

Nathan has a program full of quads and PCS. If he only had quads he would not be as dominant.

I agree there are problems with COP. I doubt we would be in agreeance as to what those problems are.

 

[Amei]

It seems to be the women with the problem. I’ve never seen any such from the other disciplines.

As a woman it doesn't surprise me that its the discipline with the visceral reactions that we saw from Kaori/Valieva/Trusova. The odd thing to me is that everyone is justifying those reactions as reasonable because the athletes work so hard to get to that point and they are very disappointed or very happy. But then saying those reactions (mainly from Valieva and Trusova) and the muted reaction (that was actually given a thoughtful explanation later on) by Shcherbakova are indicative that the sport has to change.

 

[lariko]

And whose fault is that? She should have been with Plushenko, but the Eteri bonus and the Olympics being so close ruined it. I hope she gets back to him. He posted a very nice congratulatory message on Instagram to her and Kamila. He would take her back in a heartbeat. With him there was almost immediate improvement. I'm not a Plushenko fan and I'm sure he's not the perfect coach, but he's better for her and she already knows what technique he teaches, it would be a smoother transition than going to someone completely new. Personally, I would be a bit disappointed, and concerned, if she choses to stay with Eteri.

I like Plushenko’s emphasis on the individuality of his skaters, costumes and access to the shows that give the skaters invaluable experience. Trusova didn’t just improve artistically with his school, she also got the closest to 3A and after a bit of drama, they worked on her edge too… also when people say that Trusova just doesn’t listen and goes for jumps… it’s untrue. She scaled back her jumps when injured or to improve performance. And she wasn’t rewarded for it.

In fact, this season, injured and with 5 quad program, she did place higher twice than the last year, beating both Sherbakova and Valieva at least once, when last year she was always in third.

I still want to see Trusova-Plushenko cooperation, because it’s an interesting one, and I really hope that one day Trusova wins her major gold medal. She is a wonder woman, and it’s not an exaggeration.

 

[moonvine]

In fact, IIRC, that's what Nathan has said.

He put too much pressure on himself before 2018. He did make "Gold medal or bust" the goal at the Olys. And we know what happened.

Because Nathan as a men's skater subsequently had time to grow, as a person and an athlete, to go to college and realize that "Gold medal or bust" is no way to live life, let alone win a gold medal, he developed into the skater he is today.

My sincere wish is that all ladies' skaters have that option

Me too, my friend.

Katarina Witt had a good point on Olympic Ice, about how women skaters have flash in the pan skaters and the other disciplines have rivalries that last for years. I think it’s why the women have the least interest for me.

Except for Queen Gracie of course.

 

[Putina]

This was a shameful display of child abuse. I hope the FS world will strive to end it.

Also it wouldn't surprise me if Valieva's falls were scripted and that is what Trusova accused Tutberidze of knowing ahead.

 

[moonvine]

Maybe if she would go fos a 2A in the SP she could have won.

Maybe if she had spent 10 minutes working on SS she could have won.

 

[Amei]

Also it wouldn't surprise me if Valieva's falls were scripted and that is what Trusova accused Tutberidze of knowing ahead.

None of those falls looked scripted, Valieva's had squirrelly jumps for awhile, given the pressure/attention on her that was very different from the pressure/attention she's used to, its not surprising (unfortunately) that she came apart with multiple errors happening.

 

[moonvine]

Oh yeah that's when I felt hopeless....Sasha had worked so much in her artistry at that point, she was taking extra dance lessons. She was trying a new style for her.

Then Nats happened and the message seemed clear: Stop that you're a jumping bean not a proper skater don't make us laugh with your attempts to be. Go back to what you're good at.

So she did and she finally did 5 quads and it still wasn't enough! Had Kamila skated as she usually did Sasha would have lost by even more.

Earlier someone said that men doing multiple quads are held to a high standard too. But it was FIVE quads, something only Nathan could do. Doesn't that count for anything?

Isn't the motto of the games "Faster, Higher, Stronger"?

For Sasha it seems being Russian is deterimental to her. If it were a competitor from any other country who did 5 quads the judges would have lost their minds and scored her off the scale.

Nathan has SS. He’s worked very hard on them.

I don’t follow these skaters at all, but I thought Kamila was supposed to win (and presumably would have except for all the things that happened). So the two other women were fighting for 2nd - 3rd place from the beginning yes?

The motto is “faster, higher, stronger” and they’ve added “together.” So it’s now “faster, higher, stronger - together.”

The Olympic Creed, which I’ve always loved, is “It’s not the winning, but the taking part. It’s not the triumph, but the struggle. The essential thing is not to conquer, but to have fought well.”

I remember when I used to love the Olympics. Now I’m just happy they’re over.

 

[moonvine]

Basically this! I wonder how many people have been in an intensely competitive artistic or competitive environment. It’s systemic not the individual!

So no skaters in any other discipline have been through this? Because I didn’t see any other skaters acting this way.

 

[moonvine]

What if they find she did nothing wrong. Than what? Now that they broke her and shame on NBC
for following her around and showing to the world her emotions. I hate NBC, they have no shame and thrive
on others misfortunes. And not just in Figure Skating.

NBC didn’t have camera people or even commentators there. They commented on the feed they were provided.

 

[Thrashergurl]

It isn’t just the past couple of seasons and Eteri. Johnny has been a Russophile..is that the correct term? Anyway, lover of all things Russian since he was competing. It was shocking to hear him say anything negative about Russia or Russians because he just never ever does thet.

After the doping came to light, Lots of skating fans in the US were dragging Johnny for his praise of Eteri, his visit to Sambo, and his praise of the Russian skaters. Johnny knows who signs his paycheck. He doesn’t want to lose his job with NBC.

 

[moonvine]

but is it right? Rules come and go.

Yes it is right. Doping is wrong.

 

[Amei]

So no skaters in any other discipline have been through this? Because I didn’t see any other skaters acting this way.

Nobunari Oda 2005 NHK is the initial 1 I could think of

 

[moonvine]

“Draconian measures” and “heartless” from the coach are sometimes needed to produce champions. Coaches are there to coach, not be loved or be a friend. Coaches aren’t parents, they are there to do their job. Any coach, in any sport.

These same children and parents of children willingly beat her door down to enter her rink, and who return near months after they leave her because the grass in not always greener on the other side. But this part always gets left out for some reason. I wonder why.
Everyone goes in knowing what this is all about. And yet there are no shortage of people willing to do it. For me, that’s where the debate ends.

It’s not rocket science, if the school didn’t have any students willing to go there, it would close on its own. And then “evil” Eteri will go away.

And I have to say this. Let the Russians train their athletes the way they want. It’s their country, their federation. And let the athletes be trained the way they want.

I’m willing to bet Raf has never treated Nathan like this. It’s not necessary. It’s expedient. It’s convenient.

If it was my kid, no way on this earth. There are a lot more important things than medals in this world.

 

[moonvine]

I am completely traumatized by this event and need to take a break from watching figure skating. I have not been able to watch the pairs event. Is this a normal reaction? I’ve been a big skating fan for the past 24 years but the ladies event was the most horrible competition I have witnessed!

The pairs event was great. Try watching it. It might make you feel a lot better.

 

[Amei]

I’m willing to bet Raf has never treated Nathan like this. It’s not necessary. It’s expedient. It’s convenient.

If it was my kid, no way on this earth. There are a lot more important things than medals in this world.

well that's why there's options, some people do really well with the soft and fluffy coaches, some do better with semi-strict, some do well with strict, see Kostornaia as someone who left Eteri and went somewhere they weren't strict and she realized she needed the strictness.

 

[moonvine]

But that’s the thing. Obviously, they can be dangerous and have side effects, but even then, people still do it.

After all the years of research into steroids, you would think nobody will want to take them, but business is booming.

Steroids make me feel great. I love them. I can drive 2 days to see Gracie with no pain! I can walk with no pain! I can do anything with no pain!

At the same time my doctors very rarely let me have any. The damage is cumulative. And they’re not the “bad” kind. Why? Because my doctors care that I don’t destroy my body.

Lots of coaches just care that they coach a winner. They don’t care if that person is crippled by 50.

I think it’s easy to say when you’re 13 that you’ll take a chance of being crippled by 50 in exchange for a chance of winning a medal. But in this country anyway 13 year olds don’t have that kind of agency. Their brains aren’t fully formed yet.