2015 Mordovian Ornament Ladies SP and Free Skate

[minze]

Why not? Are you saying the point value for a 3T-3T should be lowered? Or that a 3T-3T should mean lower PCS? Right now, the scoring system allows the points she got. It can be debated whether her PCS was too high or she had an under-rotation, but there is no reason why a program with a 3T-3T cannot score high if well-done.

Or the value of 3a should be higher.

 

[minze]

I disagree. Adelina's program was exceedingly difficult with a lot of transitions and nice footwork turning in both directions on both feet into the solo jump. The only void in the choreography was her entry into the 2A. Mao is etherial but she isn't always as fast and sometimes lacks the energy Adelina exhibits. Some judges like the artistry and others like the excitement, so I'm ok with those two being close and whoever skates better on the day taking the lead in PCS.

No. Adelina is very good but she should not be close to Mao in progam components.If judging is fair, Mao should score higher in interpretation, transitions, choreography. Please, Mao and Adelina are not interchangeable, even if Mao made mistakes in jumps, that does not take away that the quality of her components are higher than Adelina.

 

[MaxSwagg]

Why not? Are you saying the point value for a 3T-3T should be lowered? Or that a 3T-3T should mean lower PCS? Right now, the scoring system allows the points she got. It can be debated whether her PCS was too high or she had an under-rotation, but there is no reason why a program with a 3T-3T cannot score high if well-done.

Except when it's deemed almost as good as a program with a 3Lz+3T by a skater with superb quality in every area. And yes, the value for both 3T and 3S should be lowered. Need to be like 3.9 and 4.0!

 

[minze]

I just checked the skating skills description and yeah, I think I should change that. TBH, Adelina does skate a bit faster than Mao and jumps a bit higher as well, but looking at the other descriptions Mao beats Adelina. Much better edge control, deep steps and turns, flow, multi-directional, etc. Sorry about that.

Adelina is fast, but she is no Carolina Kostner. I don't hate Adelina I have never said an ill thing about her. I actually think her SP is fabulous, I just think we are entering dangerous territory with this official over scoring.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

No. Adelina is very good but she should not be close to Mao in progam components.If judging is fair, Mao should score higher in interpretation, transitions, choreography. Please, Mao and Adelina are not interchangeable, even if Mao made mistakes in jumps, that does not take away that the quality of her components are higher than Adelina.

I strongly disagree with this. I'm in the minority that doesn't really like Adelina's programs this year but it's not because of lack quality. To me it looks more like a dancing with the stars program that happens to be on ice. Not my thing. Not in the least but with that said I do have tremendous respect for her ability and her skating skills and think from what I've seen out of her so far this year she should probably be amongst the highest PCS scores of any ladies. All things being fair in my opinion Adelina has the ability to score as high as Mao Asada.

I say this as someone who much prefers a Mao program to an Adelina program simply from a taste perspective but I love this sport first and don't think it's at all fair to say things like what I've bolded in your post. With all do respect I simply think that what your saying is quite unfair. I think plenty of fair judges can find enough qualities in both skaters to have them close. In fact I'd be surprised if a lot of judges don't score Adelina higher this season's

 

[sabinfire]

I strongly disagree with this. I'm in the minority that doesn't really like Adelina's programs this year but it's not because of lack quality. To me it looks more like a dancing with the stars program that happens to be on ice. Not my thing. Not in the least but with that said I do have tremendous respect for her ability and her skating skills and think from what I've seen out of her so far this year she should probably be amongst the highest PCS scores of any ladies.

I don't care much for it either and I almost posted this exact thought re: DWTS.

 

[minze]

I strongly disagree with this. I'm in the minority that doesn't really like Adelina's programs this year but it's not because of lack quality. To me it looks more like a dancing with the stars program that happens to be on ice. Not my thing. Not in the least but with that said I do have tremendous respect for her ability and her skating skills and think from what I've seen out of her so far this year she should probably be amongst the highest PCS scores of any ladies. All things being fair in my opinion Adelina has the ability to score as high as Mao Asada.

I say this as someone who much prefers a Mao program to an Adelina program simply from a taste perspective but I love this sport first and don't think it's at all fair to say things like what I've bolded in your post. With all do respect I simply think that what your saying is quite unfair. I think plenty of fair judges can find enough qualities in both skaters to have them close. In fact I'd be surprised if a lot of judges don't score Adelina higher this season's

There is a criteria for program components and Mao's quality of those components in more categories are simply better than Adelina's. Adelina is some how equal to Carolina Kostner now in skating skills?

It is unfair to me that on record Adelina has higher PCS than Mao.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

I don't care much for it either and I almost posted this exact thought re: DWTS.

I understand why people like it though and agree it can score well but if I want to watch DWTS, which I don't, I'd just watch that

 

[minze]

I strongly disagree with this. I'm in the minority that doesn't really like Adelina's programs this year but it's not because of lack quality. To me it looks more like a dancing with the stars program that happens to be on ice. Not my thing. Not in the least but with that said I do have tremendous respect for her ability and her skating skills and think from what I've seen out of her so far this year she should probably be amongst the highest PCS scores of any ladies. All things being fair in my opinion Adelina has the ability to score as high as Mao Asada.

I say this as someone who much prefers a Mao program to an Adelina program simply from a taste perspective but I love this sport first and don't think it's at all fair to say things like what I've bolded in your post. With all do respect I simply think that what your saying is quite unfair. I think plenty of fair judges can find enough qualities in both skaters to have them close. In fact I'd be surprised if a lot of judges don't score Adelina higher this season's

I have no issue with Adelina, I enjoy her skating very much. And judges can do what they please but does it make right?

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

There is a criteria for program components and Mao's quality of those components in more categories are simply better than Adelina's. Adelina is some how equal to Carolina Kostner now in skating skills?

It is unfair to me that on record Adelina has higher PCS than Mao.

I guess I can see why that would bother you but I don't really care about comparing scores from different events with different judges, with different scales of value, with different competitors, with different drama, etc. I don't even know why people care about personal bests or WR's. The rules change every year and the scores from ten years ago to now are on different planets as a result. Lolzies and thank you ISU :scowl: I'm just not into such comparisons because it's so tough to sift they all of the excess drama and factors that determined the result.

Judging from what I've seen from both skaters this season I'd be likely to score them pretty close and I'd give Adelina a very good interpretation score. I'd do the same for Mao based on what I've seen. There just isn't one correct view IMHO and different people value things very differently. I think you'd be right to score your way as much as I think others may be right to score another. I'd say that in a subjectively judged sport this is just common practice and quite normal. I'm familiar with the judging criteria and as someone who comes from a family of lawyers I can see how the rules are open to discussion and still be in the name of fairness.

 

[iamchrislao]

yeah. I agree. This is dangerous territory....

 

[begin]

I guess I can see why that would bother you but I don't really care about comparing scores from different events with different judges, with different scales of value, with different competitors, with different drama, etc. I don't even know why people care about personal bests or WR's. The rules change every year and the scores from ten years ago to now are on different planets as a result. Lolzies and thank you ISU :scowl: I'm just not into such comparisons because it's so tough to factor in all of the excess drama and factors that determined the result.

Judging from what I've seen from both skaters this season I'd be likely to score them pretty close and I'd give Adelina a very good interpretation score. I'd do the same for Mao based on what I've seen. There just isn't one correct view IMHO and different people value things very differently. I think you'd be right to score your way as much as I think others may be right to score another. I'd say that in a subjectively judged sport this is just common practice and quite normal. I'm familiar with the judging criteria and as someone who comes from a family of lawyers I can see how the rules are open to discussion and still be in the name of fairness.

As true as this is, I would still disagree with your original statement saying Adelina deserves PCS as high as Mao. Program opinions aside, the least subjective category is SS and Mao is still clearly superior in that category (I will fight anyway who says otherwise).

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

As true as this is, I would still disagree with your original statement saying Adelina deserves PCS as high as Mao. Program opinions aside, the least subjective category is SS and Mao is still clearly superior in that category (I will fight anyway who says otherwise).

Actually I think TR is the least subjective criterion

 

[Barb]

at least is more tolerable to me Adelina geting overscored at PCS than Liza, who obviously needs work more at that category. And I think if someone has the right to get inflated scores is an olympic champion at her own home.

 

[sses1]

Adelina was amazing. This SP is her best yet. She really gets the samba and rumba rhythm. I don't care about the overscoring because we may not even see her at Worlds. At this point I'm just happy to see her healthy and performing well.

 

[Blades of Passion]

Haven't read the whole thread, but I just watched the SP and it seems nobody here noticed that the back-end of Sotnikova's 3Toe+3Toe was obviously underrotated...and yet it wasn't called as such. Her score was pretty ridiculous in general. I think it was 9 points too high. She didn't skate any better than what would be considered a typical 6th to 9th place kind of performance at Worlds these days. It was a solid, fun performance but the jumps and spins were noticeably less huge and well-positioned than what she showed at the Olympics. The footwork sequence was nowhere near as well executed as someone like Mao. The movements in the choreography were not fully extended, like when she tries to shimmy. She could have been any random competitor out there who would never be expected to medal at Worlds. That's what the performance looked like to me.

 

[sabinfire]

Haven't read the whole thread, but I just watched the SP and it seems nobody here noticed that the back-end of Sotnikova's 3Toe+3Toe was obviously underrotated...and yet it wasn't called as such. Her score was pretty ridiculous in general. I think it was 9 points too high. She didn't skate any better than what would be considered a typical 6th to 9th place kind of performance at Worlds these days.

You're not the only one who noticed, I've seen many others who've said the same.

 

[machin]

No rest for this girl right ?

Who did she kill ? Oh yeah, a subpar skate. Too bad she though she should do her best in Sotchi.

 

[fcolo]

Well I can get the fact that the score is really high and Maybe Ade isn't in Caro's ss same league yet but please.. Stop being so harsh on a 19yo girl that just happenend To be skating really well again!! Is not her fault if judges are scoring her this way and this Does not justfy that fans like me that enjoy her skating (as we used to enjoy Caro and Yuna too) must Be forced tu read all this polemic stuff on judgment and so on..
Please go back on watching performances.. That was a great on sure.
Don't be like Italians (i'm italian) that Always look up at oldest "holy cows" and never leave room for youngsters To emerge!

 

[Mista Ekko]

Mordovian Ornament is part of the challenger series, and the scores from challenger series competition are ISU official scores. Adelina's new official PB is 75.57 and I expect the official list to be updated soon

In that case the scoring here is in fact a crying shame and this competition's judging should be audited, Sorry