2016 Lombardia Trophy Mens FS

[noskates]

Max is better than Elvis Stojko? Well when he's won at least a silver medal at the Olympics, 2 World titles and how many National titles???? I guess we could say that. The fun and enjoyment of discussing a skater or skaters and their performances is completely sucked out of this board when an individual or individual's posts are dismissed haughtily and mightily because of someone takes fanship to the absolute utter extreme and shuts down everyone who disagrees or doesn't know every little thing about a skater's life, words or wishes. It's very early in the season. It will be most interesting to see how this season ends. I don't wish ANY skater bad luck or poor performances whether I like their style of skating, their music, their choreo of their fans. They all work very, very hard at their sport and deserve whatever it is they earn. Fini.

Correction: TWO Olympic silver medals and THREE World Titles. :agree:

 

[TMC]

I'm not sure if Uno can grow so fast to catch up with that music. They try to make Daisuke out of Uno. It seems to me that he is too young for Tango.
And Jason, I know his quality and Rohene's choreo, but isn't it a better strategy to pick music with more ups and downs?

It is...but I for one admire the fact that he's using music that does not help him at all, and his costume is plain as can be as well. No distractions, no music to help him on - let the skating speak for itself.

 

[Violet Bliss]

Max may be well known and followed closely by the American fans and a few outside the US but internationally he is a mid tier skater without any major medal (GPF, 4CC, Worlds, and Olympics) that comes to my mind readily. It is not cool to be outraged at and to chastise ignorance about the details of his life and training. What people know is what they see on ice at competitions, which shows nothing near what Elvis accomplished.

I'm not a big fan of Elvis' skating but I admire his power, his will and his hard work. Artistically, he was not classical or versatile, but he did his martial art genre extremely well. Max has a long to go to reach Elvis' level of success and even artistry.

 

[badknees]

Do you not understand why I am frustrated? Max has stated over, and over, and over again in interviews that he is the one who chooses his music. Mills has backed it up. This is not new information. He has been having to say this for more than a year. And every time, people choose to ignore it because it does not fit their narrative about who he is. He is the ex-hockey player, the jock, he's not supposed to be artistic, he's not supposed to love classics, or aspire to be anything more than he is.

You cannot tell me that these are new people who've got no idea about Max. It is experienced posters, knowledgeable fans like you who are repeating it over and over, even though time and again Max himself has said otherwise. If I must scream to stop this ridiculous, nasty little gossip that persists in going around that people are trying to force Max to do these things when it is completely the opposite, then so I shall.

I thank you for accepting the correction with grace and I hope that we can discuss how well the program is coming later in the season.

No Karne, I do not understand why you are frustrated. I do not know you, so how would I? You assume that I have heard Max in interviews and that I have knowledge that Mills has backed it up. This is all new information to me. I do not choose to ignore information that I have no knowledge of. Nor am I repeating anything about Max, in your words, "over and over." Nor am I spreading any, as you say, "nasty little gossip."
I am responding to you again, not about Max, but in an effort to show you that your assumptions about other posters are ridiculous and way overboard.
You act like a school teacher who is punishing posters for not getting all the test questions correct.
I request that you stop this sort of narrative and bring your angry posts down a level to at least civility. (polite, reasonable, and respectful behavior)

 

[futurepupdoc]

Max is working very hard at his PCS which to me is visable here. It is also pretty clear that this program is a work in progress and not a final draft. As a former skater and current choreographer, I appreciate all of his hard work to make the actual skating beautiful to watch.

Max's choreographer is known for intricate and difficult choreography. He is also known for working with the skater on the entire look. In an interview with TSL Max's choreographer Phillip Mills outlines how he has been working with Max to develop his lines and artistry. Just like with Quads this isn't a quick fix thing. There are muscles that must be lengthened and muscles that need to be developed that are not developed when learning to jump. For some people this comes more natural just like jumping comes more naturally to others. The interview was done after their first year together. Since this is year two, I really look forward to them developing the program. As for the costume, it is not my favorite but I think it will be replaced prior to Grand Prix. This is just a guess as next to the other men it looks unrefined?

Max is a great skater, he has a wonderful coach, a wonderful choreographer, I wish him and his Lion King program all the best. He just needs to believe in himself and his team. He has everything he needs to be a great champion.

As far as Jason's performance here, that Quad is getting better. His programs are gorgeous. The short was a less cluttered than a typical Rohene/Jason short but still stunning and I can see it get better with time. He just needs to develop the strength to land the quads in competition and he has it all. His spins here really stood out in this field.

Grant has the quad but his triple Axel left him here. His programs looks pretty new, and like a work in progress as well, as they should be this early in the season. He was great as always with his winning smile in the kiss and cry.

Great job by all three US men. You can tell it is early in the season but great starts by all!

 

[mirai4life]

Still lovingly supporting our 2015 national champion, I see.

The effort to dig up my post.

Coming from a poster called "mirai4life"? Calling someone out on URs is a bit pot-kettle-black, isn't it?

Wow, what a nice, tasteful comeback.

 

[Tavi...]

The effort to dig up my post.

It was so unforgettable it wasn't hard to find.

 

[mirai4life]

It was so unforgettable it wasn't hard to find.

I appreciate the honesty.

 

[ice coverage]

I agree. This program has bad music cuts, not great choreo and a really bad costume. The top looks like it came from the Halloween costume store rack. I really don't understand why a top coach like Tom Z can rarely produce good choreo and costume packages for his skaters. Max's strengths are not on the lyrical side. Max is an Elvis Stoko type. He needs big music, strong rhythm, powerful music that builds. What's with Tom Z that he can't see this? Picking programs that may seem to be the going thing with the judges is always a mistake. It's so obvious when a program does not suit a skater.

Max may be well known and followed closely by the American fans and a few outside the US but internationally he is a mid tier skater without any major medal (GPF, 4CC, Worlds, and Olympics) that comes to my mind readily. ...

Although Max does not have a medal from the comps listed by VB, badknees in her/his original post was able off the top of her/his head to make mention of "Tom Z" by name/nickname as Max's coach. Suggests to me that badknees is at least somewhat familiar with Max's career.

As a Max fan since 2013, I will say that it is indeed frustrating for me that here on GS, he often does not get credit (or blame ) for the personal thought and decision-making that he puts into his own career ... and that even people who have been paying some attention to Max are oblivious to his creative input.
Over the years, I myself have been a broken record (no pun intended) on this topic, because the misconception keeps cropping up on GS that Max's music is not his own choice.
karne has been a Max fan longer than I have, so it is no wonder to me that her frustration is even greater than mine.
Sorry that badknees was previously unaware. Just sayin' that it is not for lack of trying on the part of karne and me (and perhaps others) to make Max's input known.

---

... eta: I only mention Elvis Stojko in that Elvis had much the same style of skating. I realize Max is not Elvis nor would I want him to be.

noskates, it is hardly the first time that you have cited Elvis in your posts about Max.
If you really don't want Max to be Elvis, I don't understand why you keep making references to what Elvis did or did not do [ETA: in terms of program choices].
Good for Elvis for winning all the medals that he did. Doesn't mean that Max wants to -- or should -- emulate Elvis's skating style.

(I am referring to your posts about Max going back over the years. Again, I do recognize that lately you have been relatively quiet about him. Thank you .)

---

Max is working very hard at his PCS which to me is visable here. It is also pretty clear that this program is a work in progress and not a final draft. As a former skater and current choreographer, I appreciate all of his hard work to make the actual skating beautiful to watch. ...
Max is a great skater, he has a wonderful coach, a wonderful choreographer, I wish him and his Lion King program all the best. He just needs to believe in himself and his team. He has everything he needs to be a great champion.

As far as Jason's performance here, that Quad is getting better. His programs are gorgeous. The short was a less cluttered than a typical Rohene/Jason short but still stunning and I can see it get better with time. He just needs to develop the strength to land the quads in competition and he has it all. His spins here really stood out in this field.

Grant has the quad but his triple Axel left him here. His programs looks pretty new, and like a work in progress as well, as they should be this early in the season. He was great as always with his winning smile in the kiss and cry.

Great job by all three US men. You can tell it is early in the season but great starts by all!

futurepupdoc, really appreciate all your positive comments about the three U.S. men :yay:.

Thanks esp. for your support for Max's ongoing work with Phillip Mills . Great to hear the POV of a choreographer/former skater like you .

p.s. I love that a choreographer/former skater is a futurepupdoc :luv17:.

 

[Violet Bliss]

The effort to dig up my post.

It was so unforgettable it wasn't hard to find.

I don't remember the unforgettable post but I appreciate friendly banters in the forum. :agree:

Wow, what a nice, tasteful comeback.

When you're identified with a skater, especially so voluntarily and publicly in your name, be ready to be associated with and mocked along by people who focus on the negative and ignore the rest about their skating.

eta: Ice Coverage , I appreciate that your frustration does not burst into outrage against those less knowledgeable about your favorite.

 

[jenaj]

Coming from a poster called "mirai4life"? Calling someone out on URs is a bit pot-kettle-black, isn't it?

I like Max, too, but whether another skater under-rotates a jump has nothing to do with whether Max did. I haven't checked so I don't know. But if he did, he did, no matter who points it out.

 

[HanDomi]

You can clearly feel the season has started on GS.

 

[Mrs. P]

I like Max, too, but whether another skater under-rotates a jump has nothing to do with whether Max did. I haven't checked so I don't know. But if he did, he did, no matter who points it out.

I think the dialogue wasn't about Max but whether the judging panel was generous in giving full base value for Jason's quad attempt.

My take --- with the HUGE caveat is that video quality is not top notch -- is that it was borderline -- right at 1/4. A more picky caller would have probably deemed it UR (which seems to include a bunch of GS posters, ha.)

 

[Violet Bliss]

You can clearly feel the season has started on GS.

A little spice from a hot tempered but not malicious poster to heat up the cooking is not a bad way to start a season.

The pot will boil over soon enough when some other ill-disposed ones start fueling the fire.

 

[noskates]

Clearly if you look back through the posts on this thread and look at the thumbs up on MY posts some of you will realize I am not the only person that shares my opinions. I see nothing wrong in comparing Max with a successful skater from the past and I would bet he wouldn't mind it either. Max seems to be more like Elvis than he is either of the Brians or Kurt Browning or Todd Eldredge or Plushenko. Do not know why that is a problem.

What bothers me the most is that "we" can have informational and fun discussions about other skaters but, God forbid, if Max's name comes up and there's even the slightest bit of negativity, then it's like WW111 has started. Even the heated discussions about Mirai don't take on the vehemence and confrontational attitudes that seem to be a chronic condition of Max's most dedicated fan.

The results will speak for themselves. He'll either win, place or not show! It will either be the judges fault (most likely) or he'll have a bad skate or he'll skate lights out and he'll be vindicated. All the arguing and explanations won't make any difference. From everything I've ever seen or heard, Max is the ultimate team player and conducts himself in a very professional and polite manner. Not so some of his fans. Mores the pity.

 

[ice coverage]

Clearly if you look back through the posts on this thread and look at the thumbs up on MY posts some of you will realize I am not the only person that shares my opinions. I see nothing wrong in comparing Max with a successful skater from the past and I would bet he wouldn't mind it either. Max seems to be more like Elvis than he is either of the Brians or Kurt Browning or Todd Eldredge or Plushenko. Do not know why that is a problem. ...

I am well aware that others (such as badknees) have mentioned Elvis in this thread as well -- so don't worry, your thumbs-up are not the only sign that others share your opinions.

We are going around in circles now, but it is your previous post (re-quoted below) with which I have a particular "problem." When your perception/criticism of Max's team is that they are turning him into someone he is not, it does not make sense to me that you feel free to do the same thing.

Unfortunately I think Max has missed the target again. I'm not sure what his team is thinking but I really wish they would choose music and choreo that emphasizes HIS strengths. You didn't see Elvis Stojko skating to classical and Broadway. Max has mad talent but I always feel like his team is trying to turn him into someone he isn't. Long ago I promised someone on this board I would no longer comment on Max's performances but Lion King.....whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat?

I for one couldn't care less that Elvis chose to do thus-and-such, but Max does not. (And I mean no disrespect to Elvis.)
My rhetorical question: Why must Max or any skater model his/her skating after any predecessor, whether Elvis or someone else?
I think Max finds inspiration in the work ethic, achievements, etc., of predecessors. (For example, Max often has said that he looks up to Lysacek.) Doesn't necessarily mean that Max wants to make his programs like theirs.

---

You can clearly feel the season has started on GS.

Understatement of the year .

I will try to take a break from this thread.

Sad to say (for Medvedeva's sake ) that this thread seems downright boring in comparison to what is going on the thread about her .

 

[Violet Bliss]

I for one couldn't care less that Elvis chose to do thus-and-such, but Max does not. (And I mean no disrespect to Elvis.)
My rhetorical question: Why must Max or any skater model his/her skating after any predecessor, whether Elvis or someone else?
I think Max finds inspiration in the work ethic, achievements, etc., of predecessors. (For example, Max often has said that he looks up to Lysacek.) Doesn't necessarily mean that Max wants to make his programs like theirs.

That's perfectly valid. However, it was the claim by the staunch Max defender that he's better than Elvis that got me comparing them. I found out I couldn't stretch myself that far.

 

[el henry]

Clearly if you look back through the posts on this thread and look at the thumbs up on MY posts some of you will realize I am not the only person that shares my opinions. I see nothing wrong in comparing Max with a successful skater from the past and I would bet he wouldn't mind it either. Max seems to be more like Elvis than he is either of the Brians or Kurt Browning or Todd Eldredge or Plushenko. Do not know why that is a problem.

What bothers me the most is that "we" can have informational and fun discussions about other skaters but, God forbid, if Max's name comes up and there's even the slightest bit of negativity, then it's like WW111 has started. Even the heated discussions about Mirai don't take on the vehemence and confrontational attitudes that seem to be a chronic condition of Max's most dedicated fan.

The results will speak for themselves. He'll either win, place or not show! It will either be the judges fault (most likely) or he'll have a bad skate or he'll skate lights out and he'll be vindicated. All the arguing and explanations won't make any difference. From everything I've ever seen or heard, Max is the ultimate team player and conducts himself in a very professional and polite manner. Not so some of his fans. Mores the pity.

FWIW, Badskates, I don't see what all the fuss is about and I would hate to see you stop posting your thoughts.

I yield to no one (well, almost no one) in support of Max and his right to make his own choices for his own programs. I have said so in the endless Black Swan threads. But to refer to "Max's team" making choices is no way, nohow and in no universe the same as saying that Max had Black Swan foisted upon him.

I reserve judgment on the Lion King, I hope to see Max improve, and I will say I *love* the fact that it is not a B&W costume.

And as far as posting anything on these Boards, other than of course avoiding violations of Board guidelines, I intend to follow the advice of James T. Kirk:

"I make no deals for command of this ship, mister"

 

[MaxSwagg]

You know it's the technical panel, not the judges, who call jump rotations, that they have replay at their disposal, and that in borderline cases the call is supposed to go to the skater, right? Also that the exact same technical panel had absolutely no problem in << Jason's 4T attempt in the SP?

Semantics. The technical panel is still "judging" (giving their judgement) on rotation/edge and levels.

It was not "borderline" in this case.

 

[Violet Bliss]

Congratulations to Shoma, Jason, and Max! Great early season showings.