2016 US Nationals Senior Ladies SP

[karne]

Surely St.Paul has additional public rinks that she can go to after official practices???? Or is that against the rules now?

It has always been against the rules at any competition - once you are registered and particularly after your event has begun, you are not permitted to practice outside of the official venues.

It's a refreshing turn to see the USFSA not screw Mirai over.

Oh, for heaven's freaking sake...I would say that in case, they are actually bending over backwards to help her; they are certainly not required to provide additional practice in case of equipment failure and I would not have blamed them if they had said no!

 

[TwinnerA]

I notice that she seems disassociated sometimes. Either away or gritting her teeth to get through it. After she has a bad skate it's also noticeable. She'll drift slowly to the boards pciking up a few bears, flowers. While she awaits the results she fiddles with them - not interracting with Frank. Not really watching for the score. It must be very painful.

After she doesn't skate well, I think she is trying to distract herself in order to keep it together and not start crying. Some people, once they start crying, find it hard to stop.

 

[RABID]

..

 

[Figure 8's]

It's a refreshing turn to see the USFSA not screw Mirai over.

Screwed over hardly! Who's fault is the boot problem? Coach and her's I would say. Why should she be given more opportunity than any other skater to practice. I really am so tired of hearing how she was underscored and robbed. They have given her more chances to prove herself. More than many other skaters. Every year there is some drama with Mirai. Now this year it is her boots. I guess it keeps her in the news , so every one can say Oh poor Mirai.

 

[zschultz1986]

It has always been against the rules at any competition - once you are registered and particularly after your event has begun, you are not permitted to practice outside of the official venues.



Oh, for heaven's freaking sake...I would say that in case, they are actually bending over backwards to help her; they are certainly not required to provide additional practice in case of equipment failure and I would not have blamed them if they had said no!

From the Rulebook:

F. Unofficial practice ice: this is not scheduled by the chief referee, nor is it the responsibility of U.S. Figure Skating. A
skater who would like additional practice sessions beyond official practice ice may contact local rinks for times and
prices. A skater/team may skate on unofficial practice ice at any rink, at any time, EXCEPT between the time when
the skater’s/team’s event segment has begun — as signified by the first warm-up group taking the ice — and the time
when the last skater/team in the event completes their program.

What this means to me is that Unofficial Practice is fine so long as it doesn't occur during the ACTUAL segment (So during the SP/LP). It's an individual thing, so the USFSA really has no say so, unless it's during the SP/LP, which is forbidden.

Also, perhaps you didn't see the laugh emoji... I was making a joke, though, TBH, the USFSA has really NEVER done Mirai any favors.

So, it's really no business of the USFSA's, and I'm sure there are many rinks around the MSP area. It's the State of Hockey, for god-sakes.

 

[Figure 8's]

After she doesn't skate well, I think she is trying to distract herself in order to keep it together and not start crying. Some people, once they start crying, find it hard to stop.

I am sure it is more upsetting to Gracie than people will ever know.

 

[mrrice]

Screwed over hardly! Who's fault is the boot problem? Coach and her's I would say. Why should she be given more opportunity than any other skater to practice. I really am so tired of hearing how she was underscored and robbed. They have given her more chances to prove herself. More than many other skaters. Every year there is some drama with Mirai. Now this year it is her boots. I guess it keeps her in the news , so every one can say Oh poor Mirai.

I have no idea what you're talking about. I would want the same treatment for any skater with a similar problem. This time it's Mirai. If it happened to Polina or Angela Wang, I'd feel exactly the same way.

 

[zschultz1986]

Screwed over hardly! Who's fault is the boot problem? Coach and her's I would say. Why should she be given more opportunity than any other skater to practice. I really am so tired of hearing how she was underscored and robbed. They have given her more chances to prove herself. More than many other skaters. Every year there is some drama with Mirai. Now this year it is her boots. I guess it keeps her in the news , so every one can say Oh poor Mirai.

No poor Mirai from me. However, when she's clearly there and put herself in a position to go to Worlds/Olympics... it seems the USFSA always find some way to screw her.

Not many other American skaters have won a national championship since 2008 (4: Ashley, Gracie, Czisny, and Flatt) and of those, only Gracie and Ashley have placed higher than Mirai at worlds, and both Gracie and Mirai got the same place at Olympics (4th... though I would say there a case to be made that Mirai was robbed of bronze in 2010 because of Joannie and the circumstances surrounding Vancouver.)

I'd say Mirai's record speaks for itself.

 

[karne]

From the Rulebook:

F. Unofficial practice ice: this is not scheduled by the chief referee, nor is it the responsibility of U.S. Figure Skating. A
skater who would like additional practice sessions beyond official practice ice may contact local rinks for times and
prices. A skater/team may skate on unofficial practice ice at any rink, at any time, EXCEPT between the time when
the skater’s/team’s event segment has begun — as signified by the first warm-up group taking the ice — and the time
when the last skater/team in the event completes their program.

What this means to me is that Unofficial Practice is fine so long as it doesn't occur during the ACTUAL segment (So during the SP/LP). It's an individual thing, so the USFSA really has no say so, unless it's during the SP/LP, which is forbidden.

You are reading it wrongly. The "event segment" is the Championship Ladies. So what is means is that no skater is permitted to practice beyond the official rinks after the first warmup group for the SP takes the ice and the last skater in the FS finishes.

No poor Mirai from me. However, when she's clearly there and put herself in a position to go to Worlds/Olympics... it seems the USFSA always find some way to screw her.

No, she finds a way to screw herself. You can't have an ordinary season, then throw together two reasonable performances, and expect to be chosen for a huge-ticket event over a skater who has had an excellent season. You can't whine and complain about scores when you're chronically under-rotating.

 

[LiamForeman]

I have no idea what you're talking about. I would want the same treatment for any skater with a similar problem. This time it's Mirai. If it happened to Polina or Angela Wang, I'd feel exactly the same way.

First, thank you zschultz for posting the rule. The problem I have with this rule is that it is poorly worded. What does it mean that once your event starts you cannot warm up at a public rink, say if you are in the final group and you want to use all that extra time before your skate to get your legs warmed up and under you. If I had a great lawyer, that's how I would fight it. It doesn't say that once your event starts you can't go home after SP is over and continue to practice at another rink. However the spirit of this rule kind of says to me once you start your event, from the beginning of the SP to the end of the LP you cannot practice elsewhere.

I see both sides to this, and I tend to think what's the big deal? If other skaters also want to go back to a rink after the SP they should be allowed to. And I do see that if the spirit of the rule is NO PUBLIC SKATING after the SP begins even during your off day, you'll have to suck it up and follow it and chalk a broken boot up to bad luck. If no one else can, then neither can you. But I still think that is wrong. Don't we want our best skaters in the country to be given the chance to do their best at Nationals?

I hope I made sense.

 

[mrrice]

First, thank you zschultz for posting the rule. The problem I have with this rule is that it is poorly worded. What does it mean that once your event starts you cannot warm up at a public rink, say if you are in the final group and you want to use all that extra time before your skate to get your legs warmed up and under you. If I had a great lawyer, that's how I would fight it. It doesn't say that once your event starts you can't go home after SP is over and continue to practice at another rink. However the spirit of this rule kind of says to me once you start your event, from the beginning of the SP to the end of the LP you cannot practice elsewhere.

I see both sides to this, and I tend to think what's the big deal? If other skaters also want to go back to a rink after the SP they should be allowed to. And I do see that if the spirit of the rule is NO PUBLIC SKATING after the SP begins even during your off day, you'll have to suck it up and follow it and chalk a broken boot up to bad luck. If no one else can, then neither can you. But I still think that is wrong. Don't we want our best skaters in the country to be given the chance to do their best at Nationals?

I hope I made sense.

Liam, This makes perfect sense. Ok, here's my next question. Do they still have those fake ice pads that I think are made some type of really hard plastic. It was a long time ago but, I'm positive I skated on a plastic surface that was set up for us to practice spinning on before we competed. It was 33 years ago so, they might not exist anymore.

 

[karne]

And I do see that if the spirit of the rule is NO PUBLIC SKATING after the SP begins even during your off day, you'll have to suck it up and follow it and chalk a broken boot up to bad luck. If no one else can, then neither can you. But I still think that is wrong. Don't we want our best skaters in the country to be given the chance to do their best at Nationals?

I hope I made sense.

But if there is official practice - which we know there is - scheduled on the off day, you can skate then. And the organising body can make exceptions, like they apparently have in this case for Mirai. You could argue that Mirai is gaining an unfair advantage as she will have the advantage of an extra practice, which other skaters will not - if she takes up the offer.

And the rule is for any event. It's not just a Nationals rule, I know this rule is in place for Internationals and so forth.

 

[leafygreens]

Did you see where her boot ripped? It would be pretty impossible for any skater to do that on purpose during the middle of their program! Yes, Mirai hitting the wall last year was her fault, but not this.

Screwed over hardly! Who's fault is the boot problem? Coach and her's I would say. Why should she be given more opportunity than any other skater to practice. I really am so tired of hearing how she was underscored and robbed. They have given her more chances to prove herself. More than many other skaters. Every year there is some drama with Mirai. Now this year it is her boots. I guess it keeps her in the news , so every one can say Oh poor Mirai.

 

[daphenaxa]

I just watched Polina's program several times and I gotta say I think that flip was AT LEAST (!)

 

[LiamForeman]

Liam, This makes perfect sense. Ok, here's my next question. Do they still have those fake ice pads that I think are made some type of really hard plastic. It was a long time ago but, I'm positive I skated on a plastic surface that was set up for us to practice spinning on before we competed. It was 33 years ago so, they might not exist anymore.

Well, they did to my knowledge at least ten years ago. Many stage skating shows have used that. I'm not sure how easily accessible they are to where it would help Mirai on such a short notice, but then that goes against the spirit of the rule, or maybe not since it really isn't ice and what's the difference between her not taking these new skates off all day today and working out in the hotel gym, and walk around the hotel trying to break them in?

I feel so badly for Nagasu because it seems like it is always SOMETHING. This year is the boot. Last year was the fluke fall into the boards and the injury (did she break her leg on that fall, yet still stuck with the program?). 2014 she skated well enough to medal but was still not named to the Olys. 2013 she had a 102 degree temperature and so on. In 2010 I thought she was utterly robbed of the title, but Flatt beat Yuna in the LP at SA and Reliable Rachael stood up on her jumps, nevermind that program was just blah and she had no spark and her spins were average at best and she got the benefit on her URs because USFS wanted her to go to Olys as National champ, considering she placed 5th or 6th at the previous Worlds. Tomorrow should be interesting at least, or another heartbreak...

 

[mrrice]

Well, they did to my knowledge at least ten years ago. Many stage skating shows have used that. I'm not sure how easily accessible they are to where it would help Mirai on such a short notice, but then that goes against the spirit of the rule, or maybe not since it really isn't ice and what's the difference between her not taking these new skates off all day today and working out in the hotel gym, and walk around the hotel trying to break them in?

I feel so badly for Nagasu because it seems like it is always SOMETHING. This year is the boot. Last year was the fluke fall into the boards and the injury (did she break her leg on that fall, yet still stuck with the program?). 2014 she skated well enough to medal but was still not named to the Olys. 2013 she had a 102 degree temperature and so on. In 2010 I thought she was utterly robbed of the title, but Flatt beat Yuna in the LP at SA and Reliable Rachael stood up on her jumps, nevermind that program was just blah and she had no spark and her spins were average at best and she got the benefit on her URs because USFS wanted her to go to Olys as National champ, considering she placed 5th or 6th at the previous Worlds. Tomorrow should be interesting at least, or another heartbreak...

That's what I thought. They actually had fake ice stored at our rink but, I know that some parents (The Rich Ones) actually bought fake ice for their kids to practice on at home. Their Father would bring it to our out of town competitions and we would practice spinning and the pairs would practice their lifts. Believe it or not. In the 80's our rink had ZERO Ice Dancing Teams. Times have really changed.

 

[RABID]

The horror for the USFSA is if it's Polina, Tyler and Mirai on the podium. What will they do then?

Guess I am missing something because though I haven't seen Polina in awhile I have been following her career since juniors and this last year (when I did see her skate) I have to say I was convinced that what I was seeing of her was the final, finished version. It left me disappointed not because she was bad but because I didn't like her type of skating. There was an inelegance and rote quality there that obviously was never going to separate her from the pack. But this performance... this was a revelation! Some people talking about her being over-scored and I'm thinking to myself, did we both see the same thing? She looks strong, elegant, fierce and polished. I'm not exaggerating when I say that that skate of hers was the best skate I've seen from an American this year. She physically looks different as well (although her boots still look big ) I need to see her free skate to fully come around but right now I am very intrigued and I certainly don't think her participation at Worlds would be horrible for the USFSA. It might even be something to look forward to with some degree of anticipation.

 

[jrice314]

After a lot of frustration this fall I accepted that in ice skating the better competitor often places above the better skater. It's the nature of the business. Gracie may not figure out how to compete better. Ashley started her campaign to up her skills rather late. Lady skaters are generally inconsistent. Rad falls. Tut falls. Those who are consistent are so for only a while. Kwan, Witt, a few others had long stretches of consisency.

It's disappointing to the fans when such talented people falter. Calling them head cases, over-rated, etc. is harsh. In fact we should not be calling them anything. They are people with a dedication beyond anything we will know. They are remarkable; I admire them. They deserve our compassion and support.

I agree. I suspect that what's really going on is that the technical level of most of these programs is so difficult that very few people (perhaps no one) can be perfectly consistent all the time. My frustration is not with the skaters but with the judges / feds who don't accept that there won't always be a consistent US lady and try to create one by unfairly placing them higher than others when they mess up.

 

[wolfpacker]

I don't really care who wins- without Michelle, ladies figure skating has never been the same for me. Still watch and enjoy it, but I don't get all tied up in knots like I used to. Anyway, watched the top six after sp. Polina certainly deserves 1st, but I must admit my attention wandered during her skate. Gracie and Ashley had some major mess ups, but the polish and little touches held my attention better and deserve better pcs imho. Kudos for Mirai for finishing with a bum boot. Now off to see how my Max does!!

 

[topaz emerald]

I have been watching skating for years. That skating I saw last night from the ladies was some of the worse SP skating I have seen in years. Nobody could seem to do a 3/3 or even a combo. The future looks bleak for ladies in the US. How will they manage in the LP?

Hi Flying Camel,

Yes, I've been watching for years too. In my opinion, the only true contender is POlina in the senior ranks. USFSA just need to support her. The future does look bleak for the ladies, doesn't it? That's why I've been trying to follow the younger skaters. Anyway, I saw this one girl name Alysa Liu skate her short and long program in the Intermediate level. I am not sure of the ranking, is it juvenile, intermediate, then the highest is Novice before Juniors and Seniors, right?

She is really really cute and sort of looks like Julia Lipnitskaia except I think Alysa looks half white, half Asian. She WON the competition, btw. Also, another girl who took 3rd place was really good too, her name was also Alysa. And finally, the fourth place finished looked like a very young Yuna Kim, similar body type, named Angelina Hwang, she was good too. Here are there videos if anyone cares to see. Maybe they are the future of US figure skating if their bodies can hold up.

Fast forward to 10:20 for Angelina Hwang
Fast forward to 26:00 for Alysa Rich
Fast forward to 42:45 for Alysa Rich

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Um7DJpAO9xY