2017 Autumn Classic Intl FD

[all that]

Can somebody more knowledgable enlighten me, why V/M get around 10 points more than G/P and W/P?
I liked all 3 pairs. My number 1 is G/P, and I've always loved their programs. I love Moulin Rouge (movie), and I liked V/M dance on some of its songs. I also loved the Spartacus program. But I don't understand the points difference. G/P and W/P always look a bit sad with the marks.

Tessa and Scott are vastly superior skaters compared to G/P and W/P. V/M's edges are deeper and cleaner, turns are clean, lifts are well executed with no wobbling and with speed and precision, and ice coverage is tremendous. Some of this stuff can be better seen in person than on a tv screen.

 

[beebee51]

I just did a quick and dirty scan of individual judges' PCS scores and something looks weird with the German judge. Gave V/M through the roof PCS and lowballed other two Canadian teams. Especially harsh with G/P. If I'm correct, gave S/D higher PCS than G/P. I think that's ridiculous! Looks like she had a distinct preference for some of the Montreal teams . Why would that be?

 

[andromache]

Is it weird that I didn't love the Moulin Rouge FD as much as I thought I would based on the practice video? I don't think the Tango de Roxanne part lives up to the music. The "Come What May" part was better. Still plenty of room for them to grow, and I'm sure this program will be dynamite by the Olympics. Still needs time to gel and get some kinks worked out. I think I got too hyped after loving the practice clips so much and my expectations got too high.

W/P - I love their costumes! I like Spartacus, but man, the first half of this program was a SNOOZE. And it looks slow. It got far more watchable once they started bringing some drama and intensity, but still, lots of awkward-looking moments. They aren't a couple I would ever suggest should skate to ballet.

Piper and Paul win best-dressed. Sexy and different! But they need more character in order to sell something this different and off-beat.

IMO, out of all those who have competed so far this season, H/D have the best FD I've seen. Or at least seem most prepared and who are doing their material total justice.

 

[4everchan]

report from the venue Dance

As I said in the other reports :

I am sharing my experiences as i lived them... mostly subjectively... i haven't looked at protocols nor at what has been written in the thread. I know that things are very different from the rink... so here are my thoughts...

First, let me tell you that I love ice dance, but as I have never skated, I am less able to make critical and objective opinions, unless I go back, look at protocols, watch replays etc etc... so when I am at the venue.. none of this is available... and i just sit back and enjoy...

Ice dancers are mesmerizing as they go so much faster and skate with such deep edges... well the good ones so I love watching it...

As i am dead I will be quick... this is my last of 4 reports


1) My favourite danes they are so beautiful flamenco is not what I would have given them but they are sharp and convincing. I am happy they have recovered from the SD... I hope they do well this year and continue. They really are a treat to watch for so many reasons.

2) S/D... I saw Adria in the hallway.... why are all ice dancers gorgeous? LOL.. he is much smaller than some of the others but his eyes are very intense. They are also beautiful to watch, very fast. the first lift is cool as the costumes colours make it visually very interesting... not sure you will get that angle as it was done right next to the boards where we were sitting so.. yeah... I liked them.. I think they have improved a lot since last year.

3)M/C saw them also in the hallway... what can I say : the last time I watched them compete was junior worlds... this was so much better... I think their transition to seniors will be fine... I am sure they have a lot of things to work on but yeah... pretty impressive debut.

4) piper and paul : loved the concept... loved the music cuts... it's a bit slower than i would like... but i give them time to get up to speed... i am not sure this beats their FD from last year... or some of the other ones they have done in the past...

5) Virtue and Moir : I see why they picked Moulin Rouge... though.. i didn't cry... last year, they made me cry at ACI .... very strong. people were starting to move around as dinner time was approaching and i got blocked in my viewing so i missed a few things... I think i liked their SD better so far...

6) Weapo : omg... hot costume galore... different.... edgy... gorgeous.... I loved the FD... of course, like for all of these teams, this is SUPER EARLY in the season and I am sure a lot of these dances will evolve... but personally, and I am crazy about Tessa and Scott, this was my favourite dance of the day.

little bit of banter : go to see Andrew very close he is even better looking in person... SarahSynchro would just melt... his dark eyes are so big and round and when I looked into them, he looked at me and i had to look down a bit and then my eyes met his lips... OMG... pink puffy lips sorry... i better stop... especially since I met the entire weapo family there and we talked a bit about what it is to be a skating family... all of them, including our beautiful dancers are super nice people, kind, and engaging.

I had a very good time talking with them. They initiated the conversation, they were asking the questions... etc... it felt very natural. It was very nice... all this happened after the dance... so do not think that I was influenced when watching. I will also not reveal anything about the talks by respect for everyone.. so all i am saying is that I met them So SarahSyncrho, I have met the family.. i think I have a certain advantage now LOL

you have no idea how many photos of the KAK sandwich were taken... Kaetlyn -Andrew -Kaitlyn must have posed for shots for an entire zamboni and warm up session... they were very kind... Oh and yes... Kaitlyn's hair was so beautiful....

So pretty much how i lived the event...

A bit subdued in my humble opinion... considering that the last time I saw these 3 compete was at Nationals, much later in the season, I shouldn't have expected for the same excitement though I knew not to count on it... but I think all 3 dances have their potential, but I preferred the SD for both G/P and V/M while I prefer the FD for W/P

we will see how things develop in the season....

most improved award : Olivia Smart
most handsome award : Andrew Poje
most memorable moment : the tango de roxanne part in V/M... so sharp.
Canadian moment : the podium sweep
most disappointing moment : didn't see Nik from up close this year LOL

 

[sarama]

Quinn looks a bit like Scott. It's the hair.

I always thought they kind of look like young Tessa and Scott on the ice, even without the matching hair

 

[sarama]

ROXAAANNNNNNNE!!!!!!!

I want Scott to scream that, the way he did the "Roar" in Carmen.

 

[Silvia451]

I love this more than Carmen. This is a program for olympic gold.

 

[NoNameFace]

watched yesterday (stream worked miraculously), then re-watched today and thought about FD while making zucchini bread (to give a little 'insight' for those who are interested)

The general thought about all FDs I watched is that every team for me has already some kind of idea/vision given about their program, the substance created as for choreography, some more interesting/intricate, some less, which is very positive. I'm also glad that we've seen a variety of concepts there and those FDs seem to fit quite well each team, their abilities, way of movement/expression in my opinion.

Nikolai and Laurence - this program for me is an essence of their style: elegant, flow-y and sensual; there is some kind of 'vintage' feeling about this program, but it's a stylish vintage, with this unforced feel of sophistication about how they moved, connceted with music, executed elements. The thing I value in them probably the most is how personally connected they make their stuff to each other, how intimate it all looks while being camera-ready, exposed to the audience at the same time. This focus they have on each other, how well he's partnering and presenting her, how responsible she is - it all gives me an impression of engagement into performance, that it has some flavour, spirit in it. Saying that, this spirit and expression is fully in line with their style - it's more on understated side, elegant and polished instead of energetic and flashy, which actually suits this 'low-key', modern Flamenco concept they do in FD. I love the harmony and flow of choreography, the beginning sequence and lifts are my favourite parts, it still needs gelling, sharping and polish of course, but they already showed the improvement for me since last weekend in SLC. The one, big gaping hole inside my Ice Dance soul is getting bigger since we won't be able to see that FD performed at Olympics

Despite some tightness and nervousness, I very much liked Lorraine and Quinn - I do think that this is a challenging vehicle for them in terms of maturing and defining their style and way of movement as senior team. There is a challenge not only in interpretation, giving out the character of the music, but mostly about maintaining this balance and control over both technical execution and impact of performance created. They are still yet to get that state, but I was glad to see Lorraine more relaxed comparing to SD and that she was able to put more of equal care about both technicalities and expression. I think that as season progresses, with more mileage, they will get more confidence and sureness in execution of stuff and then - more impact will be created. I'd love to see of course this attitude, vividness, character while performing, in elements' execution, more variation in building the tension, mood of the music, but they have time to do that, there is no need to rush. I'm willing to give them credit though for determination and amount of attack they showed - not everything went perfectly, but we're in the beginning of the season - their first season one and this was their debut. I have confidence that their team will work with them hard to improve steadily on every aspect.

Hate to say that, but the most issue I have right now with Kaitlyn and Andrew...There is a vision, an idea there, no doubt about that, love music cuts and the overall 'design of choreography' which is supposed to capture the connection, closure of them both, this unforced sensuality, but elevated into conveying the beauty of music and movement - saying that, the way this concept was executed and lead, felt flat and underwhelming for me, unfortunately. From what it looked, I feel like the concept to work its charm requires absolute sharpness, focus and polish in every element, while they seemed tentative and disconnected at places. I see also this idea about using beautiful classical music, but kind of 'refining' it, translating it into modern interpretation, with edgy costuming, lacing it all with powerful emotion, connection between them - I see it, but I did not feel it woked yet properly. Saying it all, I do believe that the FD has same potential and could have same impact as Aranjuez FD last season - as it has also a bumpy road and this learning curve from competition to competition, peaking at right place with its full potential release. And this is the first showing of that program, where choreography and elements felt not so secure nor easy to do to be honest - all lifts, their concepts fit the program very much, BUT they have to be execute with full speed, force and effortless quality, same goes with twizzles. What is positive for me is seeing them convinced and devoted already to the idea of this FD and they sure are conscious that a raw emotion, connection have to be backed by and 'rooted' in confident performance, this impression of beauty of movement has to match the easiness, flow of actual movement, elements.

In contrast to WeaPo, Piper and Paul felt more stronger in terms of executing their concept, overall FD felt much more polished, and ready-to-go for me. I think that the clever - and of course cool - thing is that they are totally 'Guardians of innovation' season after season: there is always something new in their choreography, how it reflects the music, which is challenging/daring for both them and audience. Those lifts are INSANITY - the complex factor is still visible in them though, but I believe that the goal is to make them smooth and effortless and to see only their musicality, not their difficulty. The first thing that caught my attention while watching this FD is how strong the concept is behind that dance is, how well they seem to play with emotion, convention, expression thorought the dance while taking care of the execution and having a decent level of control already in that. Aside of working out kinks of that program, making it more polished, sleek and elegant-looking as a whole (I mean - feeling the novelty/originality of the dance, but not in obvious, in-your-face way) I feel that they need to be more 'sound' while performing it, not necessary loud in regards of character. Comparing this FD to last season Tango FD, I feel that this year's one is more based on the originality/quirk of characters and story portrayed, while Tango was more about showing the originality of that particular genre of dance, the identity of it translated onto ice. That said makes in my opinion their new FD more difficult to succeed as a whole package, more difficult to sell to the audiences - there is just more quirk and this intricacy not only into movement, but also in acting/presentation; the concept feels very custom-made and individual, whereas Tango FD felt more like original spin on already existing idea out there, which was them more accessible in my opinion. This time, it looks like they challenged themselves concept-wise a lot more than last year (which was super challenging already...) - and personally, I love that they are not compromising in anything while chasing that full consumation/devotion into program presented, no matter of what is the program. I already love the styling (as usual with them), the whole demeanor of sensual mystery put onto the story and performance and this understated sophistication touch about everything. As I said, there is a way to go in terms of put more definition over being those characters on ice, but I was very intrigued and excited from what I saw already.

With Tessa and Scott's FD, I don't love it yet as a wholesome presented yesterday, but I already have incredible respect over it and I think that I understand the effect they are going for with this program, whole idea of it. I feel that some people dismiss the whole dance/program based only on 'Moulin Rouge' music chosen/pieces from it used - it's of course their right to do that and to make that choice, BUT at the same time it was Tessa/Scott's personal choice to do 'Moulin Rouge' program and their confidence, dedication and idea behind that choice should not be limited nor defined as bad/tasteless based only on that music. It's actually quite funny in my opinion, as they totally could do a similar FD program like last year with that modern, contemporary flare and concept, take some flow-y music and make it fabulous for majority, yet they consciously went with their guts and chose a non-crowd pleaser to work with. I respect that choice due to its individual character, how it reflects on their maturity and confidence as performers and competitors - I think that they are aware that this program, music choice for it won't make an universal pleaser, but it gives them so much of self-satisfaction and pleasure to work and create on that results in having an impactful vision, custom design with clear effect to achieve. I feel that this effect they are going for is about celebrating their Ice Dance identity in its present state, but reflecting also on their legacy in a form of creating memorable character, picture, showing off skills, using them as intergral way of expressing themselves; saying that, I somehow feel that the 'tools' used yesterday, how the program looked did not match this desired effect yet. For me, the sharpness in expression of 'Tango del Roxanne' part, the sensuality in it has to be translated with equal force into 'Come what may' part - this unexpected, unusual finale has to be built up more and movement/choreography has to match this already there emotional intensity better I feel. This is more about matching the level, flow, intensity of picture created to the emotion projected, impact done. Saying that, I do believe that this FD would be extremely successful the way it is now (especially with SD to match they have), but it will be definitely a subject of growth and developing, like it was last season. Seeing already both their programs, I appreciate the boldness of their material - the fact that they are willing to take risk and make statement concept and performance-wise in Olympic season, after so many years and cemented reputation is telling a lot about their confidence and desire to win.

 

[Alba]

Moulin rouge, how exciting. :yawn:

 

[bramweld]

I don't quite get why Piper and Paul were ranked below W/P for either the SD or the FD but say what, this is ice dance.

 

[Alba]

I don't quite get why Piper and Paul were ranked below W/P for either the SD or the FD but say what, this is ice dance.

Hey there.

Maybe it's too early in the season but I'm so bored watching these programs. :noshake:

 

[sarama]

Hey there.

Maybe it's too early in the season but I'm so bored watching these programs. :noshake:

Well it's not a very exciting season in terms of programs... but being an Olympic season the drama will make up for it in terms of entertainment value.

Hopefully next season skaters will be less stressed and more inspired, although many of the current protagonists won't be there.... Seriously I feel as though I have barely recovered from the retirements after Sochi and here it comes another retirement wave. I AM NOT READY. Especially I feel like we just got Tessa and Scott back and now they are leaving again....

 

[4everchan]

Hello. Many of the ice dancers were revealing their programs yesterday. Some had done only a few run throughs. I agree it was a bit underwhelming but if we forgive people for popping jumps early in the season, let's give dancers a break.

 

[Alba]

Well it's not a very exciting season in terms of programs... but being an Olympic season the drama will make up for it in terms of entertainment value.

Hopefully next season skaters will be less stressed and more inspired, although many of the current protagonists won't be there.... Seriously I feel as though I have barely recovered from the retirements after Sochi and here it comes another retirement wave. I AM NOT READY. Especially I feel like we just got Tessa and Scott back and now they are leaving again....

Yeah, I was thinking "am I back in the 90s?"
As for Tessa and Scott, well we knew they came back just to win another OGM. So no surprise there. I just feel underwhelmed by their programs. I was expecting smth more and I though since PC Mozart program the doors were open for smth new and original, but nope. I'm counting on the Pairs caus Ice Dance is really meh this season.

 

[Ender]

Yeah, I was thinking "am I back in the 90s?"
As for Tessa and Scott, well we knew they came back just to win another OGM. So no surprise there. I just feel underwhelmed by their programs. I was expecting smth more and I though since PC Mozart program the doors were open for smth new and original, but nope. I'm counting on the Pairs caus Ice Dance is really meh this season.

The program is fine... but not some groundbreaking in my opinion.

I really like their SD last season, that's what I call groundbreaking (we can forget about the FD! I still have no clue what it was).

 

[Alba]

The program is fine... but not some groundbreaking in my opinion.

I really like their SD last season, that's what I call groundbreaking .

Exactly. :thumbsup:

(we can forget about the FD! I still have no clue what it was)

It was another cheesy romance stuff. :yawn:

 

[Blades of Passion]

Weaver/Poje need bigger moves for those music crescendos. I love their choice of music and styling, but it's lacking magic.

Virtue/Moir's program has lots of great stuff in it, but ends with a whimper, doesn't feel complete.

 

[bramweld]

We haven't seen half of the real contenders yet, P/C, C/L, C/B, Shib Sibs, S/B (based on Tarasova's hype, eh?). I just have a feeling that P/C is going to be very captivating. V/M did not care in the least about any of their competitors this weekend. What would have helped W/P is them sitting out this competition, they really looked unprepared. :confused2:

But I must say every year FB/S grow on me, they are very stylised and sophisticated in their presentation and packaging, but I always prefer their SD. I am really impressed by the diversity in the Gadbois camp this season.

 

[apgold]

I feel like V/M's free dance is sort of a greatest hits set to MR. I like the "Tango de Roxanne" part (even with the "It's mooore than I caaan stand") with some sharp choreo. I really dislike the "Come What May" part along with Tessa/Satine dying in Scott/Christian's arms. Too literal. Maybe they will rework it with a different piece from the MR soundtrack.

I'd love them to bring back "Carmen" if they're going to use that rotational lift.

Loved Piper and Paul's "Perry Mason" - such a great fit for them and they always pick something out of the ordinary.

Underwhelmed by W/P although I love Katelyn's black dress for "Spartacus." There were some really ugly looking lifts there.

 

[Alba]

S/B (based on Tarasova's hype, eh?).

Bless her.

But I must say every year FB/S grow on me, they are very stylised and sophisticated in their presentation and packaging, but I always prefer their SD.

FB/S is the Danish couple, yes? I like them very much but honestly I want them with a different coach.

I'd love them to bring back "Carmen" if they're going to use that rotational lift.

I loved that program. The last great FD I saw them skate.