2018 Four Continents Ladies FS

[jenaj]

I like Mai's bangs, but they're honestly too long to leave them like that without curling them with a straight iron.:scratch3: I want to style her! (Of course she's cute as she is though <3)

Her bangs are a good look, I think but they are too thick and cut too straight across. Thinner bangs, fringed is the way to go.

 

[alvina9894]

I enjoy all the ladies skating. I am very surprised by how much I enjoy Zag skating. It is not just jumps for me. Her spins are very good and picks up so much speed in the spins and I love her footwork. It is speedy and inticate and alot of one footwork. It seemed to me that her footwork was better than Caroline. So it is more than jumps and transitions for me.

In addition to Satoko's LP and Caro's SP, I think you should watch Kostornaia's SP and Gubanova's LP. That should tell you "intricate footwork" shall look like when executed properly.

 

[randomfan]

Is there a video of the press conference somewhere? Or was it not released this time?

 

[Skater Boy]

I don't think her LP is so great, there are nice moments when she's on but she didn't ever captured the full emotion of it. But then nobody besides Matt Savoie has skated to "The Mission" (Gabriels Oboe) with real depth.

Her SP was definitely worse though. I hope she did learn something from it and can grow next season, because many of the moves were still quite amateur and I'm not at all convinced she has learned to do something more fiery or sexy or darker yet.

As we have learned from P/C it doesn't matter if you have limited range just do what you do best.

 

[tjb]

Both Kaori and Mai have better flow out of their jumps than Zagitova, and they also have great control. That should balance out Zagitova's backloading. Some of the GOEs she gets is ridiculous and totally undeserved.

especially mai mihara got so much flow on her microscopic jumps. these probably are the best jumps in the ladies field, after satoko, give her all the GOEs!

Also, the only area where Zagitova is better than Kaori is maybe TR. I would argue that Kaori is equal if not better than her at SS, CO. They are about equal in PE and IN. So in a completely objective judging, their PCS would actually be quite similar, with Zagitova having an edge in TR, and Kaori in SS, CO.

i see completley objective judging right here. why don't you give her transitions as well? it's clear as a day for everyone (execept the judges) that kaori is better in every department.


but yeah, you have to remember, folks, that people who are bashing alina PCS are actually praising kaori and someone like mirai nagasu. look at the ammout on thumbs up of miss ice post. and try to take seriously all zagitova outrage after that

 

[qwertyskates]

I much prefer Satoko and Mai over Kaori and would award her higher PCS - Kaori has good SS and is capable of more difficult transitions and steps but this childish miming nonsense with long stops and hand milking, pulling, hands in front reading...:noshake: Amelie is gamine, coquine, not child-like.

I am also puzzled that such a child-like program with tinkling bells, broken doll limbs and cute miming isn't juniorish but Don Quixote's Kitri is juniorish? :reye:

I suspect that many declare a program "juniorish" only because it is performed at Junior GP or Junior Worlds. It is not easy to portray Kitri - a strong but bright and flirty young lady. Alina's Kitri has seriously flirtatious arms and she has actually upped the BV difficulty. She has astonishing transitions and steps in and out of her elements. This is a quality very much lacking in Kaori's programs. Bradie's LP is also girlish in concept but her transitions, intricate steps and moves make up for it.

Kosternaia's Tango for example, is definitely much more sophisticated than Kaori's programs or Mai's Tango even though she's only 13. There are shades of Kostner yet she's a junior .

And I'm glad that Mai is pushing herself to try a Tango, though she still has a way to go - one of the few Japanese ladies who are bold enough to break the mold, in Rika's footstep, I hope!:agree:

 

[qwertyskates]

but yeah, you have to remember, folks, that people who are bashing alina PCS are actually praising kaori and someone like mirai nagasu. look at the ammout on thumbs up of miss ice post. and try to take seriously all zagitova outrage after that

In the end, taste is a very personal matter. I prefer Mirai over Kaori though, but Mirai is nowhere near American greats like Sasha Cohen on PCS. Kaori's Amelie is more sophisticated than Alina's Kitri??? I'm glad that judges disagree.

Kaori reminds me of Polina - both have good SS and jumps, but they have little personality and their choreographers try to get them to "act" out something on ice.

Med is the opposite - she has personality but is still pushed to "act" because that's the conventional way to score high PCS Wagner-style.

Alina is very shy but she feels the music and has a natural atunement to it. Her expression is when she accents the music with subtle but beautiful details (wings of swan in SP) or jaw-dropping moves with expressive arms that hit the notes in and out of her scary jumps. Fortunately, they don't push her to "act" like Med - it would be horrendous!

 

[AlexRus]

I find it very interesting people say Zagitova is not "juniorish" when she is quite literally re-using a junior program...

Junior program is program which meets ISU rules for Juniors.
Juniorish skating is skating with poor skating skills and choreo and interpretation etc.
Junior and juniorish are different things.

Example of juniorish skating https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yz0zMiEkej0 Cherpakova 17th at JrNats of Russiia.

Skating may be not so juniorish in very young age - Gubanova when she was 11, Junior US Champion Alysa Liu being 12 etc.

 

[Ares]

In my opinion transition should be rewarded. It is much easier to do a jump by completely setting up for it than to do steps and spread eagles into it.

Evgenia could actually telegraph her jumps all she wants but they would not become technically stronger this way. Her 2A would be just as miserable (for senior skater at least).

 

[Alifyre]

Junior program is program which meets ISU rules for Juniors.
Juniorish skating is skating with poor skating skills and choreo and interpretation etc.
Junior and juniorish are different things.

Example of juniorish skating https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yz0zMiEkej0 Cherpakova 17th at JrNats of Russiia.

Skating may be not so juniorish in very young age - Gubanova when she was 11, Junior US Champion Alysa Liu being 12 etc.

Well it's a good thing that Mai and Kaori, the two ladies I have seen labeled as "juniorish" most on this thread, don't skate like this junior girl then isn't it? Nor does Alina. Certainly all three of them have room to grow in projection and artistry and skating skills, but none of the top ladies are skating like they're barely teenagers. A 15-17 year old isn't going to have the level of maturity seen in the mid twenties, certainly, but all of these ladies have abilities that are suited to, if not beyond, their age in my opinion. And isn't it a great part of the sport that there is always room to grow?

Also, I find it interesting that I almost never see this criticism leveled at men skaters. There are definitely empty programs, poor/contrived choreo, low skating skills, etc, in the men's event. But those get called something else. [emoji848]

 

[Barb]

I love Satoko, Kaori and Mai but in my opinion, Mai should have won this competition, she was underscored and I guess it was because she is not part of the Olympic team, I hope next season she will get more credit.

 

[Globetrotter]

In addition to Satoko's LP and Caro's SP, I think you should watch Kostornaia's SP and Gubanova's LP. That should tell you "intricate footwork" shall look like when executed properly.

Agree with Kostornaia. Among Eteri’s girls, she is the one I see who has the better edges and blade work. Like Zagi, she just need to work on holding and finishing out the TR moves to achieve better quality. She glides better than Zagi or even Zhenya but I doubt that any of them will get Zhenya’s inherent X factor that is unlikely to be trainable. Gubanova has smooth blades and refinement like Satoko but I don’t see the same level of interpretive skills yet. I personally prefer Kostornaia at this stage. Eteri needs to give her less packed transitions and focus on quality and her SS can be better displayed thus.

 

[[email protected]]

Mihara is definitely better than Zagitova on the skating skills aspect.

No, she is not.

 

[chopinskate]

no, she is not.

ok.

 

[Ginask8s]

Those 80+ TES are also sketchy. There is little flowing edge, and some of those jumps are UR. She should be getting Kaori-level TES with that taken into account. Both Kaori and Mai have better flow out of their jumps than Zagitova, and they also have great control. That should balance out Zagitova's backloading. Some of the GOEs she gets is ridiculous and totally undeserved. Meanwhile, PCS should not be more than marginally impacted by TES. Otherwise, everyone should just start backloading and not caring about posture, sophistication, balance and flow, because hey, you just need to get the TES and then the PCS will automatically inflate... what a logic.

Also, the only area where Zagitova is better than Kaori is maybe TR. I would argue that Kaori is equal if not better than her at SS, CO. They are about equal in PE and IN. So in a completely objective judging, their PCS would actually be quite similar, with Zagitova having an edge in TR, and Kaori in SS, CO.

If everyone could successfully do all the jumps in the second half they would. It is very hard. I don't believe anyone (at this point) is saying that they are not going to backload because they won't have a balanced program. Its also a huge risk to do in the short. Not many skaters do that either. It "should" be easier because there are only 3 jumping passes, but I'm guessing its not Its a great strategy if you can do it. Kaori is doing it in the short and it is not going unnoticed.

 

[Logirl]

I totally disagree that Zagi has only TR over Karoi. Put moving shots of Zagi spins and footwork next to Karoi then tell me this.

 

[Logirl]

I think that Zag would have to move elements out of her programs to hold moves longer. Zag has the flexibility needed to hold moves in my opinion.

 

[gsk8]

Hey folks! This is the 4CCs thread. Please keep discussion regarding European skaters out of it. Thank you.

 

[CoyoteChris]

I love Satoko, Kaori and Mai but in my opinion, Mai should have won this competition, she was underscored and I guess it was because she is not part of the Olympic team, I hope next season she will get more credit.

If you hear a delighted scream, it is because I have learned that Kaori and Mai are coming to Four Conts Anaheim next year...

 

[CoyoteChris]

People so far only scratched the surface of the problem aka varieties of Chinese language (sometimes unintelligible with each other) . There were also ... 26 Formosan languages that are completely unrelated to Chinese as they're from Austronesian family (Chinese from Sino-Tibetan). But only 2% of people from Taiwan are Taiwanese Aborigines and much less of them use those languages, at least 10 are extinct.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_Taiwan

That is very interesting for sure...and I am still confused about the political status of Taiwan
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_status_of_Taiwan

But I can tell you this....if you think about all the languages and dialects spoken in the USA, it is mind boggling.....